Talk:Troy ounce

integrating this with Troy weight

I suggest integrating this with Troy weight. GilesW (talk) 19:11, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

It probably could be merged as the article isn't too long. Surv1v4l1st ^{(Talk|Contribs)} 01:58, 27 November 2009 (UTC)

Difficulty for American readers

Is it just an accident, or is this article trying to make it difficult for American readers to find out how many troy ounces there are in a pound? You know, a 16 oz. pound as in a heavyweight boxer is over 200 pounds.

^^^ I agree with the above statement. I'm Ivy educated but I had to decipher the first paragraph or two in order to figure this out. It is actually right there at the start ("One troy ounce is equivalent to approximately 1.09714 avoirdupois ounces.") but most readers are not going to know what an avoirdupois ounce is. Yes, that information is still right up in the first bit of the article but this all makes the article very difficult to understand... and I'm assuming that this is the key info that a large number of readers are looking for. The statement that it is "about 10 percent more" would be helpful to a lot of readers if it were in edited to be in conjunction with the specific equivalent. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.91.161.106 (talk) 18:04, 20 February 2014 (UTC)

I'm trying to research the "weight" of gold coins, and I want to know how much gold is in a "1 oz." coin. Assuming that's a troy ounce, how does this compare to the pound which is 0.45359237 kilograms? And the ounce which is 1/16 of a pound or 28.3495231 grams? And what's a troy pound? The facts in this article aren't arranged in a useful sequence.

If no one responds or fixes the article, I intend to rewrite it so that it is equally balanced between US measures (i.e., 1 pound is 16 ounces, and a troy ounce is some fraction of these) and metric units. But I'd rather someone who is more familiar with the subject would just add the answer to my question into the article. --Uncle Ed (talk) 21:16, 1 August 2011 (UTC)

Traditional units like this one are defined as finite decimal fractions of SI units. This is the exact way to do things. So you should have no problem to get the weight in a gold coin measured in kg.

The conversation between two traditional units (oz. Troy and oz. Avoirdupois) generally can't be represented by a finite decimal fraction and is therefore frown upon :-)

DiEb (talk) 09:27, 2 August 2011 (UTC)

Maybe we can distinguish between definitions and conversion techniques. As an encyclopedia, we certainly ought to let people know the definitions, especially if they are official. On the other hand, if there's a simply conversion technique (like divide by 12) we could include that too. Let's make it easy for the reader, and lay things out in a simply way that makes it easy to find what they're looking for. --Uncle Ed (talk) 16:16, 2 August 2011 (UTC)

No problem with that - and thanks for renaming this section! DiEb (talk) 18:52, 2 August 2011 (UTC)

In the USA, and in the former BI (British Imperial) systems, the troy, avoirdupois, and apothecary systems all use the same grain as their base unit: 0.06479891 gram. The troy ounce is 480 grains. The ounce avoirdupois is 437-1/2 grains. The 16-ounce pound avoirdupois is 7000 grains, the 12-ounce troy pound 5760 grains.Zyxwv99 (talk) 22:23, 11 November 2011 (UTC)

Deliberately confusing and argumentative ("lighter" contrasts with "darker")

I agree, this article should be rolled into the article on weight as suggested by GilesW (talk). Either that or there needs to be an article for every possible unit of measure. Kernel.package (talk) 00:24, 2 September 2011 (UTC)

No one has suggested that this article be rolled into the article on weight, but rather the article on troy weight. An article for every possible unit of measure would not be a bad idea, but realistically, some units are more important than others. Troy ounces are important. Zyxwv99 (talk) 00:34, 15 November 2011 (UTC)

The term "imperial measure" should be capitalized if it is used. Since international treaties exist that replace its use with the Metric System or "MKS" (for Meters - Kilograms - Seconds) its value is historical only. As well, Avoirdupois weights and measures has been replaced in name. But I can't recall if it was replaced by "American" or "English".

The unit "ca" is undefined. Since the article uses it, the article can't make much sense without a definition for it.

The purpose of the discussion is to relate one system of measure to another. "Conversion", as mentioned in the previous Discussion subheading, should be addressed for the arithmetic subject that it is, IMO. (It's just algebra).

Note that grams and grains are not specific to either system of weights/measures. There is a reason for this which I will broach in a moment. Since the use of grains in pharmaceutical measures has been replaced by grams (not milligrams as stated) reference to grains seems to confuse matters, rather than help clarify them. The unit should be included as it is relevant. But reference to it should be at the end of the discussion since it is merely incidental (i.e. it is not required to relate troy and avoirdupois.)

The reason both systems refer to grams is that grams are units of mass, not weight. Weight, you see, is a product (mathematically) of mass times the force of gravity.

A comprehensive discussion of Weights and Measures is beyond the scope of this article because it is its own division of Physics. For the sake of this discussion, two common systems of interest each use a different unit to describe the force of gravity. are their own Gravity in MKS units, is 9.8 (and its units are meters over square seconds:

                             m / (sec)^2         ft / (sec)^2

In English units, gravity is 32 and the distance (meters) is replaced by feet.

Terms like "heavier" and "lighter" and "darker" lack a standard, so detract from a discussion about "standards". So I removed the phrase referring to which is "lighter". As well, the statement is posed as a fact but is intended as a joke. (See here: http://gwydir.demon.co.uk/jo/units/weight.htm#joke )

For a useful and easily understood (relatively) explanation of English and Metric units, see this URL: http://physics.info/system-english/.

When the article is merged with a suitable topic, please consider adding a table. (For an example, pls see the URL in the previous para).

Kernel.package (talk) 00:24, 2 September 2011 (UTC)

History

Someone just changed the title of the History section to US History. Even though I reverted it, it does raise a valid point: this article doesn't provide much information of troy ounces other than English/British/imperial/American. Zyxwv99 (talk) 01:00, 17 February 2012 (UTC)

Worth noting, it seems far more likely that the origin of the word troy with respect to ounces and pounds relates to the germanic word "treu" pronounced "troy"; to mean true, faithful, uncompromised, trustworthy etc. Something which would matter when weighing your money.

e.g. http://dict.leo.org/ende/index_de.html#/search=treu

English has a germanic root. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.197.168.23 (talk) 18:46, 31 March 2013 (UTC)

Problems in the lede

The lede has a lot of information about conversion factors, with references pointing to websites, in some cases run by coin dealers. The lede should summarize referenced material in the body of the article, and ideally not need references. Also, if information can't be found except on a commercial website, maybe it doesn't need to be in the article. Zyxwv99 (talk) 13:34, 10 September 2012 (UTC)