Talk:Truganini

Biography assessment rating comment

WikiProject Biography Summer 2007 Assessment Drive

Nearly a B.

The article may be improved by following the WikiProject Biography 11 easy steps to producing at least a B article. -- Yamara 18:14, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

Discussion

Hello, For Australians, historically and otherwise.Truganini is the correct pronunciation of her name.For a viewpoint from a novelists perspective who researched this story meticuously.Try "The Savage Crows" by Robert Drewe. "Friendly mission:The Tasmanian Journals and papers of George Augustus Robinson 1829-1834, edited by N.J.B. Plomley. Truganini is the way to go, I lived over there for quite a while and that is what has gone into the lexicon.

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I agree - I have never heard of "Trugernanna" before - Truganini is the pronounciation and spelling that I have always seen - again, a life-long Tasmanian resident. I will correct all the 'Trugernanna' sitings that I see. A google search seems to agree with me - 3000+ hits for Truganini, 100 for Truganinni, 14 for Trugernanna. --Chuq 23:43, 23 Feb 2004 (UTC)

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Why not consult with the Tasmanian Aboriginal community and find out what the correct spelling and pronunciation, as accepted by them, is? The only spelling I have seen used by Aborigines in Tasmania is Trugernanna. - not true. I used to work for SETAC (south East Tasmanian Aboriginal corp. - TRUGANINI is right

What

does "the last first-generation tribal Tasmanian Aborigine" mean?—Nat Krause^(Talk!) 23:30, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

• It's a very contorted way of saying that she was the last Tasmanian Aborigine on Tasmania. A few others survived outside Tasmania, thats why there are still some Tasmanian Aborigines.--Peta 00:11, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

  WRONG... the last full-blooded tasmanian aboriginal was Fanny Cochrane-Smith. Outlived Truganini by about 30 years and died near cygnet tasmania. 101.178.198.124 (talk) 05:20, 22 May 2024 (UTC)

last Tasmanian language speaker

I went searching for a reference for the claim someone made on this page about Fanny Cochrane Smith being the last speaker - and instead i found books published that consider Trugernanner to be the last speaker - whoever added Smith can you please add your source for the claim 121.73.1.165 (talk) 06:24, 24 August 2009 (UTC)

There's a condition on the claim: that Truganini was the last full-blooded native speaker; Smith may indeed have been the last speaker of the language. On the other hand, I've noticed both articles claim that both individuals' recordings of songs are the only existing recordings of native Tasmanian languages, which therefore cannot be true. 1.79.39.67 (talk) 17:31, 13 June 2014 (UTC)

I can clarify this. I also worked for SETAC (the south east tasmanian aboriginal corp/council.)

Fanny was the last fluent speaker, and the last full-blooded tasmanian aboriginal alive. this was recognised through her land grants and in paperwork (birth / death records etc). She lived about 30 years after Truganini's death. The confusion possibly stems from the fact that Tasmanian folk were not one tribe - and unfortunately this power play between mobs still continues today. 101.178.198.124 (talk) 05:24, 22 May 2024 (UTC)

Truganini

100% of the references in this article are to Truganini, or similar.
There is no reference whatsoever to this "Trugernanner".
The article should not renamed Truganini to reflect its sources.
99.238.134.143 (talk) 22:32, 10 August 2012 (UTC)

Many of the references in the article are from 19th century British newspapers, and most 19th century Britons knew little of Aboriginal languages. If the "Trugernanner" spelling reflects the correct pronunciation of her name we should stick with it, especially as it seems to be the one most modern Australians use (e.g. Australian Dictionary of Biography).RLamb (talk) 13:30, 11 August 2012 (UTC)

That's a big "if". "Truganini" is closer to the actual pronunciation, as evidenced by the many similar transcriptions. — kwami (talk) 03:18, 27 December 2012 (UTC)

That is reasonable. Is that clear in the article?

My personal original reference point could be the song by the Oils.

Former resident of Sydney, User:Varlaam (blocked) 99.238.134.143 (talk) 16:36, 11 August 2012 (UTC)

Never heard of "Trugernanner", which is a rather ugly English respelling. Everyone knows Truganini, which is the normal spelling in the lit. At GBooks, there are thousands that use "Truganini", but only about a dozen which used "Trugernanner". — kwami (talk) 02:31, 27 December 2012 (UTC)

So, 1 source for "Trugernanner", 1,000 for "Truganini". Also, "Trugernanner" is unknown outside Australia. Any reason not to change back? — kwami (talk) 03:18, 27 December 2012 (UTC)

How about using WP:RM to establish consensus and avoid moving to malformed titles like Truganini (). older ≠ wiser 03:27, 27 December 2012 (UTC)

I'm not having a say on the article title but perhaps the linguistics of the name may help editors decide. Colonial transcriptions were usually Trugernanner or Trugernena with both sometimes used in articles. In one 1836 newspaper (Hobart Town Courier) her husband was Worreddy in one mention and Wooreddy in the same sentence ie: "...Worreddy, a native of Brune Island and Trugernena, wife of Wooreddy" which indicates some spelling confusion but also a consistent vocalisation which can be considered accurate. Truganini is likely a transcription by people who had never heard the name spoken by an Indigenous speaker. The earliest mention of the name Truganini is as the name of a schooner in 1840. In 1869 there was a town called Truganini near Bendigo in Victoria. The earliest mention of Truganini as a persons name was in 1870 when J.W.Graves, the president of the Hobart Acclimatisation society, named one of his daughters Truganini. According to Graves, he had given all his daughters Aboriginal names, named for the youngest of the Aboriginals that had seen transported to Flinders Island in 1836 (it was actually 1833) when he was a young boy. Graves wrote a short biography of one of the Indigenous girls on Flinders Island of around his own age, six year old Matthina (with poetry praising her and one particularly sad poem upon her death) and also wrote about the poor conditions suffered by the Indigenous Tasmanians. In 1871 there was a suburb named Truganini in Melbourne, Victoria (present day Laverton, adjacent the corner of Geelong road and Kororoit Creek Road. The earliest use of the name Truganini for an Indigenous person was in 1871 in a newspaper article about Flinders Island, specifically a physical description of Trugernanner. Today the name Trugernanner is still somewhat common among Indigenous Tasmanians. Wayne (talk) 08:35, 27 December 2012 (UTC)

So the forms (in modern orthography) are early Truganana and Truganina, later Truganini. (Or more accurately Trukanana, Trukanina, Trukanini.) We do go with WP:COMMONNAME, however, and I don't think there's any contest there. — kwami (talk) 08:46, 27 December 2012 (UTC)

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: page moved. Wbm1058 (talk) 15:44, 16 January 2013 (UTC)

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Trugernanner → Truganini – very clear WP:COMMONNAME. — kwami (talk) 06:17, 5 January 2013 (UTC)

• Support It would be useful to have some evidence, rather than the unsubstantiated claim that It's the common name and the equally unsubstantiated Oh no, it's not earlier on this page (I know it's the pantomime season, but really...), but the evidence seems to back the proposer's claim. An Advanced Google search for Trugernanner, excluding Wikipedia, in English for websites in Australia over the last year gives 17 hits. A similar search for Truganini, excluding Wikipedia, gives 1,460 hits. That seems to firmly indicate that current useage in Australian English is Truganini. Skinsmoke (talk) 10:22, 5 January 2013 (UTC)

Didn't think I needed to, since it's so lopsided and people would take their own looks. Of your hits, only 5 use it as the primary name, and one more has double-barreled "Trugernanner - Truganini". — kwami (talk) 22:04, 6 January 2013 (UTC)

• Support requesting admin G6 assistance. Tiggerjay (talk) 08:28, 13 January 2013 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Woorrady?

"...moved Truganini and Woorrady to Flinders Island..." As far as I'm aware, Woorrady is a fictional character. I hope the rest of this article is sourced a bit better... --118.209.200.29 (talk) 13:21, 5 May 2014 (UTC)

When Robertson visited Bruny island in 1829 there were 19 Aborigines living there. One was Truganini and the groups elder was Woorrady. Robertson introduced a European diet and regular church services in order to westernize them but they started to become ill as the European diet had far less protein than their regular diet. It was Indigenous custom to abandon a location when there was an outbreak of illness so they abandoned the island which was when Robertson decided to collect all the remaining Aborigines and relocate them in a single settlement away from Europeans. He travelled with the Bruny Aboriginals as guides and used Truganini as a go between when he met other groups. Truganini and Woorrady stayed with Robertson until he settled the Aborigines on Vansittart Island in March 1831, not 1830 or Flinders island as the article states and it was 51, not 100. In late 1831, the Aborigines were moved to Flinders Island (The Lagoons) as Vansittart was too small but this settlement was unsuitable and in October 1832 the settlement was moved to Pea Jacket Point which was renamed Civilisation Point (Wybalenna in the Indigenous language). Robertson visited Flinders Island for the first time in October 1835 and he stayed there until 1839. In 1835, Robertson renamed the aborigines, Truganini was renamed Lallah Rookh (an Indigenous name meaning 'last of her clan') and Woorady was renamed Count Alpha ("Count" because he was the 'chief' and "Alpha" because he was the first aboriginal Robertson had met). Wayne (talk) 05:02, 6 May 2014 (UTC)

External links modified

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• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20091028082340/http://www.dpac.tas.gov.au/divisions/cdd/women/leadership/significant_tasmanian_women/significant_tasmanian_women_-_research_listing/truganini to http://www.dpac.tas.gov.au/divisions/cdd/women/leadership/significant_tasmanian_women/significant_tasmanian_women_-_research_listing/truganini
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20100719153158/http://www.dpac.tas.gov.au/divisions/cdd/women/leadership/significant_tasmanian_women/significant_tasmanian_women_-_research_listing/fanny_cochrane_smith to http://www.dpac.tas.gov.au/divisions/cdd/women/leadership/significant_tasmanian_women/significant_tasmanian_women_-_research_listing/fanny_cochrane_smith
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20160304061052/http://www.australianbookreview.com.au/files/Features/Calibre/ABR_May_10_Hansen_Calibre_essay.pdf to http://www.australianbookreview.com.au/files/Features/Calibre/ABR_May_10_Hansen_Calibre_essay.pdf
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20090921083956/http://images.statelibrary.tas.gov.au/Search/Search.asp?Letter=T&Subject=Truganini+%2D+1803%2D1876 to http://images.statelibrary.tas.gov.au/Search/Search.asp?Letter=T&Subject=Truganini+-+1803-1876
• Added {{dead link}} tag to http://www.fotoworkz.com/Trucanini.htm
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Pybus biography, March 2020

See, recently, a biography by a well-reputed historian: Pybus, Cassandra (2020). Truganini: Journey through the apocalypse. Sydney: Allen & Unwin. ISBN 9781760529222. Edited extract: Pybus, Cassandra (6 March 2020). "Truganini and the bloody backstory to Victoria's first public execution". The Conversation. Retrieved 7 March 2020. Errantius (talk) 00:29, 7 March 2020 (UTC)