Talk:Tsetin Mantatzi

Requested move 04 May 2015

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: no consensus. The evidence from Place Clicy of the subject's personal email address is probably a key piece of evidence here. Number 57 17:55, 13 June 2015 (UTC)

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Tsetin Mandatzi → Çetin Mandacı – Turkish name should be in Turkish, not romanised Greek. --Relisted. George Ho (talk) 04:22, 11 May 2015 (UTC) – Alakzi (talk) 18:15, 4 May 2015 (UTC)

This is a contested technical request (permalink). Anthony Appleyard (talk) 22:28, 4 May 2015 (UTC)

• @Alakzi: As he lives in Greece and is Greek nationality, best discuss this. Also these 4:-
  • Zeibek Chousein to Hüseyin Zeybek
  • Moustafá Moustafá to Mustafa Mustafa
  • Aichan Kara Giousouf to Ayhan Karayusuf
  • Achmet Chatziosman to Ahmet Hacıosman
    • Anthony Appleyard (talk) 22:28, 4 May 2015 (UTC)
• Is there some point you'd like to discuss? All of them are ethnic Turks, whose mother tongue is Turkish and names are Turkish, and they use their Turkish names for all purposes to the greatest extent possible. Alakzi (talk) 23:19, 4 May 2015 (UTC)
• Question are there any English language sources discussing any of these figures? In ictu oculi (talk) 23:30, 11 May 2015 (UTC)
• I don't think it's correct to call members of this community Turks (it's also a bit controversial). Members of this community, descending from Ottoman Turks, but also Pomaks and maybe Albanians, have been Greek since the treaty of Lausanne in 1923 (around 4 generations), and I believe that they are called, on both sides of the border, "Muslims from Northern Greece" or "Muslims from (Western) Thrace". I recently watched a report about people from this community (link) where they consistently speak Greek among themselves. There's even footage of an imam preaching in a mosque in Greek, not in Turkish. Assuming a Turkish identity for them based on their name is a bit like saying that Gamal Abdel Nasser is Turkish, or that Jennifer Lopez is Spanish.
  All that to say that I believe that when transcribing the name of these people in English, there's no reason to use letters that do not exist in English, such as ı or Ç, or to use Turkish spelling as a point of reference. There's no reason also to use the weird transcription used above, even if it's the one used by the English version of the Greek Parliament website. For instance, Hussein is a very common English rendition of the name Chousein/Hüseyin, or Hatziosman looks much better than Chatziosman or Hacıosman. Tsetin Mandatzi doesn't look so bad to me. It's hard to find sources in English about the people cited above, but as an example I found an article in the LA Times about previous Muslim MP "Yasser Mehmet Oglu" (and not Yaşar Mehmet Oğlu or Giasar Memetoglou). About the first article discussed, English sources cited in the article [1] [2] use Tsetin Mantatzi, and this spelling is also used in his personal email address (visible here), which would indicate a personal preference. This is a bit counter-intuitive to me as a more common practice on Wikipedia is to transcribe -ντ- by -nd-, but I could live with that. Place Clichy (talk) 17:41, 4 June 2015 (UTC)
• Comment: since Greek politicians will be writing mainly in Greek, which has a different alphabet entirely, we need to see if there's a common way these names are written in English, or at least in Latin letters. After a cursory search, I can't tell if that's "Tsetin Mandatzi", "Tsetin Manttatzi", "Çetin Mandacı", "Cetin Madaci", or something else.--Cúchullain ^t/c 13:52, 8 June 2015 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.