Talk:Tunisian Arabic

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This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 18 August 2021 and 10 December 2021. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Rodristeph. Peer reviewers: Sheasheas, Warddrew.

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Latin substratum

Further study of the language show that there is a consequent number of words in Tunisian arabic with latin etymologies this hints at the possible persistance of the african romance within the language in the form of a subsratum. I would like to ask interested parties to gather here relevant studies concerning that matter so the article can be changed accordingly.

The part concerning Italian and Spanish loanwords is especially striking, considering that those language (along lingua franca) were probably spoken by a minority and for less time than the French language period that has less presence when excluding code-switching. This would suppose that at least for some, the Italian and Spanish loanword are in reality mislabelled part of the latin substratum with a more ancient presence in the language. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Asmodim (talk • contribs) 16:49, 6 December 2017 (UTC)

The examples proposed in recent edits are not plausible Latin loanwords, and are not supported by citations either. Particularly implausible is the attempt to derive karrūsa from Latin carrus (masculine), when Italian carrozza is already feminine, and knowing that words for "carriage" are borrowed from Romance even as far east as Egypt. Given the massive volume of recent Romance contact, Romance loanwords in Tunisia should be assumed to be recent until proven otherwise. (For examples of genuine Latin substratum words, try يناير "January" - already attested in early medieval texts - or برطلاق "purslane".) - Lameen Souag (talk) 16:03, 12 December 2017 (UTC)

Tunisian also has "carrus" (m) in any case it is likely that basic concepts are the eldest as they are the least likely to change (as a substratum), you could also compare this with Tunisian "Qattus" --> Cattus (cat) or "Kayes" --> Callis (paved/roadway) that are different from modern Romances. The population is known to have spoken latin/romance in the past (afariqa), so it is quite logical to have vocabulary influences just as with Berber languages. Assuming by default that any word of latin etymology comes from later romances rather than being a local development is very unprobable and unscientifical considering the historical aspects and the influence of latin on remote languages such as berber. However, it is unfortunate that there isn't more researches on that matter to say more and with precision which is native latin and which is foreign Romance.Asmodim (talk) 12:47, 28 January 2018 (UTC)

"Caillasse", m.: Pierre meulière cassée et utilisée entre autres pour l'empierrement des routes. ( https://fr.wiktionary.org/wiki/caillasse ). Latin did not have the development ll to y; neither did Arabic; French, of course, does. Etymology is not something you can toss off casually; it needs close attention and care. And on Wikipedia, it needs something more - scholarly citations confirming that the connection is not original research. - Lameen Souag (talk) 11:00, 30 January 2018 (UTC)

I don't have immediate access to the references for the foreign loanwords, but I suspect that they are references for the meaning of the foreign word. They should point to works linking the Tunisian word to the original language. For example, the reference for sfinārya is actually a reference for the Greek word. It does not mention any Arabic derivation. How can we know (not just conjecture) that sfinarya comes from Greek and not through, say, Portuguese "safanoria". If the same happens with the other references, ḅaḅūr could come from Turkish or from Spanish "vapor" or from a common source (French?). fišta could be straight from Latin or from Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Catalan. There could be a route through Judeo-Spanish or Mediterranean Lingua Franca. What is needed is some author explicitly establishing the link. Otherwise, your guess is as good as mine. --Error (talk) 16:05, 3 March 2022 (UTC)

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Biased Edits on Tunisian Ethnicity and Language Articles

The edits tend to emphasize an exclusive Arabic identity while downplaying the diversity of Tunisian heritage.

The recent edits since 2023 on articles related to Tunisian ethnicity, language, and Berber ancestry. There have been consistent alterations that present a biased perspective, specifically promoting the exclusivity of Arabic identity while downplaying the diversity of Tunisian heritage. Asmodim (talk) 22:30, 30 November 2023 (UTC)

This lead to a conflict resolution on the administrator board, please refer to this archive Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Archive356#Tunisians and Tunisian Arabic edit war, Non neutral point of viewAsmodim (talk) 17:56, 4 December 2023 (UTC)

Ritt-Benmimoun, Veronika (ed.). Language Contact and Language Conflict in Arabic. p. 25.

Something is very wrong with this reference. It doesn't look like this editor was involved with this book. So either the title of the book is wrong or the editor is wrong. Snowman304|talk 12:13, 4 January 2024 (UTC)