Talk:TunnelBear

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Edit request: TunnelBear article objectivity update and anti-censorship involvement

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Information to be added or removed: Requesting to remove: The Pricing section. Requesting to add: TunnelBear's involvement in anti-censorship efforts, as well as our work to popularize security audits and transparency reports in the industry. Explanation of issue: I believe information in the Pricing section, while accurate, is non-encyclopedic. Additionally, I believe that Tunnelbear's work towards popularizing security audits and transparency reports in the industry is notable. References supporting change: Independent audits, a new transparency practice in the VPN industry | Hacker Noon Servicio privado de VPN Tunnelbear ofrece 10Gb gratis para que venezolanos accedan al bono Héroes de la Salud #26Ago Protests in Iran lead to a surge in downloads of Canadian VPN tools TunnelBear is giving Zimbabweans free 10 GB usage access on their VPN service TunnelBear внедряет ESNI Thanks! PoohBearSA (talk) 17:41, 16 September 2020 (UTC) Hello PoohBearSA, and thank you for your suggestions. I think the pricing section can stay. If it mentioned specific prices, I would agree with you, that would be unencyclopedic. But I think mentioning that there are free and paid versions is acceptable. See for example, Adobe Acrobat. As for the anti-censorship/transparency work, adding that to the article sounds reasonable, but you need to be more specific with what you want to have added. It is your job to draft a proposed paragraph. Then, a reviewer can check the proposed text and decide on adding it to the article. Best, Altamel (talk) 00:54, 22 September 2020 (UTC) Hello User:Altamel, Thanks for your feedback. Please see my suggestions below - Security audit and its effect on the industry In 2017, TunnelBear was the first major consumer VPN[0] to release an annual public security audit. The company argued that no matter what provider a person chooses, that provider should offer some form of proof that they are protecting user privacy. Other VPNs followed suit over the next several years[1]. While most consumer VPNs have declined to perform audits, several other providers joined TunnelBear in making audits an industry standard. Notably, Mullvad, SurfShark, and Nord VPN. Internet censorship TunnelBear has donated its services to netizens in multiple countries since 2013[2] to help people access the internet during government censorship events. Below is a list of countries that TunnelBear has donated bandwidth to. [0] VPNs have a trust issue: Here's what TunnelBear did about it [1] Independent audits, a new transparency practice in the VPN industry | Hacker Noon [2] [1] On our end, we've also collected some references verifying our anti-censorship efforts in various countries: Turkey, Venezuela, Iran, Zimbabwe, and Belarus. Please let me know if you need anything else. Best, PoohBearSA (talk) 16:53, 28 September 2020 (UTC)

Edit request: anti-censorship involvement

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Hi again, I've made a more concrete edit suggestion but our previous edit request was denied before we were able to submit it here. I'd like to request a review of that and an edit based on it. Security audit and its effect on the industry In 2017, TunnelBear was the first major consumer VPN[0] to release an annual public security audit. The company argued that no matter what provider a person chooses, that provider should offer some form of proof that they are protecting user privacy. Other VPNs followed suit over the next several years[1]. While most consumer VPNs have declined to perform audits, several other providers joined TunnelBear in making audits an industry standard. Notably, Mullvad, SurfShark, and Nord VPN. Internet censorship TunnelBear has donated its services to netizens in multiple countries since 2013[2] to help people access the internet during government censorship events. Below is a list of countries that TunnelBear has donated bandwidth to. [0] VPNs have a trust issue: Here's what TunnelBear did about it [1] Independent audits, a new transparency practice in the VPN industry | Hacker Noon [2] [2] On our end, we've also collected some references verifying our anti-censorship efforts in various countries: Turkey, Venezuela, Iran, Zimbabwe, and Belarus. Please let me know if you need anything else. Best, PoohBearSA (talk) 15:31, 16 October 2020 (UTC)  Partly done, but the quality of the sources cited could be better. Twitter should be avoided as a source. I was unsure about the PCWorld and HackerNoon articles as they appear to have been written by contributing editors rather than staff members of those publications. Wikipedia policy for similar sources has discouraged citing articles by "contributors" if they are subject to "minimal editorial oversight." However, I was able to find better sources to cite. You have not cited a source for most consumer VPNs have declined to perform audits, so I'm leaving that part out. Best, Altamel (talk) 19:37, 24 October 2020 (UTC) Thanks Altamel. I appreciate your looking into this. I'd like to enquire about one last thing: The advertisement notice/banner is still present at the top of the TunnelBear page. Could I please get your feedback as to why that is? I'd like to make sure the article is written in an objective and neutral way. Best, PoohBearSA (talk) 14:40, 28 October 2020 (UTC) Typically, you would want to consult (as a courtesy, not a requirement) with the editor who placed the tag and ask their opinion. That's not possible in this case because the tag was placed by an IP who hasn't edited since. I don't think this article looks that much like an advertisement, but I'd rather leave removing the tag to another editor, to get a second opinion since I've edited this article. Altamel (talk) 01:13, 29 October 2020 (UTC)

Edit request: promotional banner

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I'd like to request an edit to remove the advert banner on top of the TunnelBear page. Previous editor Altamel has said that a second opinion would be best in this case. Could someone please have a look and let me know the appropriate next steps? Best, PoohBearSA (talk) 20:02, 29 October 2020 (UTC) Hi @PoohBearSA:. I agree this article still reads like an advertisement because it is missing some key features. A "History" section should be added that gives information on its founding and notable events in its history (like the sale to McAfee). Also, the article does not have any criticism of its products or company, even though a the CNET source is critical of their product. This article needs to include the good, neutral and bad critiques of their product and services. If you are looking for a template, we have a couple featured articles on companies including Cracker Barrel and BAE Systems that you can get ideas from. Lastly, if you are being paid by TunnelBear to edit Wikipedia, you need to read Wikipedia:Paid-contribution disclosure carefully and include a paid notice on your userpage, which you can access here: Template:Paid. Let post below if you have any questions and happy editing! Z1720 (talk) 20:20, 13 November 2020 (UTC) Hi Z1720. Thanks so much for taking the time to review my request. I have added a paid editor disclosure to my user page, and I'm working on copy that would include your suggestions for neutral and negative critiques, as well as building out a history section that includes the acquisition. Would it be better that I open a new edit request? Or is following up on this thread fine? Best, PoohBearSA (talk) 20:50, 18 November 2020 (UTC) Hi @PoohBearSA:, thanks for declaring your paid editor status on your userpage. I have also added your name to the banner at the top of this talk page so future editors know about your paid editing status. In answer to your question, please open a new edit request so that all editors monitoring the template can see your request (and you will get a response faster!). Please post below if you have any other questions. Z1720 (talk) 21:16, 18 November 2020 (UTC)

Edit request: advertisement banner

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I'd like to request an edit to remove the advert banner on top of the TunnelBear page. Previous editor Z1720 has said to open a new edit request that includes a proposed history section with balanced reviews of the TunnelBear service. Please see proposed edits below: History TunnelBear started with the goal of providing a more accessible consumer VPN (0). Co-founders Ryan Dochuk and Daniel Kaldor created TunnelBear with this in mind, in the hopes it would enable everyone from security novices to experts to use VPN technology. TunnelBear was acquired by McAfee in 2018 (1). Since then, they’ve developed the TunnelBear SDK for McAfee partners while also operating as an independent subsidiary (2). The company has received positive reviews for its simplicity, transparency, and usability (3), though it has recently faced criticism about comparatively slower speeds (4). Community Contributions TunnelBear has contributed its implementation of certain circumvention techniques, like Encrypted SNI, into open source (5). [0]TunnelBear: The Easiest VPN For Protecting Your Privacy [1]McAfee [2]TunnelBear Transparency Report for 2019 [3]The Best VPNs to Protect Yourself Online [4]The Best VPN Service [5][3] Could someone have a look and let me know if the edits look fair? Best, PoohBearSA (talk) 20:23, 23 November 2020 (UTC) PoohBearSA, thank you for your efforts, but Not done for now, I'm afraid. A few pointers: There are sourcing issues. The makeuseof piece looks like (and probably is) an advertisement, so it isn't usable as a source. We also can't use Wikipedia as a source. As a reader, the gerrit page also doesn't really work as a source for me either. Part of the wording seems problematic. The entire first section strikes me as pretty PR-y. The they’ve developed the TunnelBear SDK for McAfee partners is going to be hard to understand for most readers, you'll have to expand on that a little. Wording like "recently" should also be avoided, since they will age badly over time. Due weight. I don't think the open source part should have its own section, especially since "Community Contributions" sets off my marketingspeak spidey-senses. I feel like the "review" part makes blanket statements on the basis of just two reviews, though I'm not sure what the best way to handle that would be. Maybe Z1720 could weigh in on that? I am marking this request as declined for now. If you can address the concerns above, please open another one below and I'll be happy to implement it. As a more general suggestion, it's usually helpful if you can directly format the references (see WP:REFB, the visual editor also has a handy "cite" button that generally works well), because it makes it easier for us to implement requests. Thanks for complying with our COI disclosure guidelines and best wishes, Blablubbs|talk 01:16, 7 December 2020 (UTC) Hi @PoohBearSA: and @Blablubbs: I believe both Wirecutter (NYT) and Wired are reliable sources. However, I would not have accepted the sentence as-is because it is too short and not specific. How is the product "transparent"? What makes it simple? I would write a "Reception" section using reviews as the sources, including Wirecutter and Wired. This section should be 1-2 paragraphs, depending on how many reviews you can find, and specifically say what the reviews did or did not like about the product. Macintosh Classic, one of our featured articles, has a reception section that can be used for inspiration. Please post below if you have any questions or concerns. Z1720 (talk) 01:59, 7 December 2020 (UTC) Hi Blablubbs and Z1720 Thanks so much for taking the time to review the proposed edits and making such helpful suggestions. Please find a revised edit below as per your suggestions - History TunnelBear’s stated goal is to provide an accessible consumer VPN for everyone from security novices to technical experts. TunnelBear was acquired by McAfee in 2018. Since then, they’ve built the TunnelBear software development kit (SDK) so that McAfee and its industry partners could build apps and services on top of TunnelBear’s network of Vpn servers. The provider continues to operate as a consumer-facing VPN service . TunnelBear has contributed its implementation of certain circumvention techniques, like Encrypted Server Name Indication, into open source . Reception Scott Gilbertson of Wired notes that TunnelBear demystifies what VPNs do for users through it’s "cute bear animations" which help simplify the process. Gilbertson also notes that TunnelBear’s free trial allows users to test its speeds. However, the provider has faced criticism from WireCutter about comparatively slower speeds. TunnelBear has received positive reviews for its transparency. iVPN conducted a study concerned with misleading claims offered by top VPNs to their consumers, and noted that “TunnelBear was the only provider to pass with a clean slate”. I’d also like to note that someone seems to have edited the Wikipedia article with a misrepresentation of a CNET article. The new edit lacks context regarding our data minimization principles and approach to law enforcement as laid out in our annual transparency reports. If someone can please investigate that, I’d really appreciate it! Best,PoohBearSA (talk) 19:35, 8 December 2020 (UTC) Hi @PoohBearSA: here are my responses to your added requests. The request is listed by reference number below. 1)  Not done Too promotional. We don't need to know the goal of the company. 2) There is potential to add this sentence, but not in its current structure. I would support including TunnelBear was acquired by McAfee in 2018 if a reliable source reported it (instead of sourcing to the company blog). I would also support adding more information about his acquisition. The second sentence is too general. Who is the "they" who build the SDK? Is it the TunnelBear team, McAfee, etc? What was the timeline of this activity? Also, the info about the SDK needs to be notable, which means reliable sources should have reported on it. 3)  Not done This sentence relied upon the prose for reference 2. Also, it's a lot of jargon. A reader who knows nothing about technology should understand what it means. Most non-techy people will not understand what a consumer-facing VPN service is. 4) and 5)  Not done Are you trying to say that TunnelBear has made some of their code open source? If I'm asking this question then the sentence is using too much jargon. 6) and 7) This is a great start but the unquoted text is using close paraphrasing which can cause copyright problems (demystifies is not usually used in an article's Reception section, and is used in the source.) Also, I would tighten up the language a little bit (I try to use the fewest words possible in a sentence.) Also, what do you mean by "test its speeds" Do you mean that it offers a free trial before purchase? I don't think that's notable. Also, Wirecutter said lots of additional things in their review that I would include in the reception section, like dropped video calls and its transparency reports. Don't be afraid to include more information, both positive and negative. 8)  Not done I couldn't find an editorial team on the website and it appears to be a blog. Therefore, it is not a reliable source. 9) and 10) Can you post the exact text that you want changed, and what you want it changed to? If it is a misrepresentation of the source then it should be corrected. Those are my thoughts! I know it is frustrating when an editor denies and critiques your edits but this helps us create the best article for Wikipedia. Some of the sentences can be accepted with some tweaking or adding of sentences, so please read the comments and continue to make improvements. Please post questions below and happy editing! Z1720 (talk) 00:13, 9 December 2020 (UTC) Hi Z1720 Thanks for your feedback! I’ve gone ahead and divided everything into separate points so you can review each individually. I see the existing page already mentions the McAfee acquisition, so moving right along to edit suggestions - History Since having been acquired by McAfee, TunnelBear built their software development kit (SDK) so that McAfee and its industry partners could build apps and services on top of TunnelBear’s network of VPN servers. TunnelBear continues to operate as an independent VPN service, with a VPN product offered to the general public. TunnelBear has open-sourced some of their code as part of a contribution to BoringSSL, for example Encrypted Server Name Indication . Reception Scott Gilbertson of Wired notes that TunnelBear boils down what VPNs do for users through its “cute bear animations” which help simplify the process, and notes the provider has competitive security features and an easy-to-understand privacy policy. However, the provider has faced criticism from WireCutter about comparatively slower speeds. WireCutter also added that they experienced dropped video calls in their tests of the service, but they noted that TunnelBear excels in “usability, trust, and transparency” Regarding the CNET article, the text I want changed is: “According to CNET, the service logs communication through its clients and is known to share information to government and other agencies.” This is incorrect. TunnelBear is a no-logs VPN service. While TunnelBear complies when presented with a valid subpoena, the company operates under a principle of data minimization which protects users. TunnelBear publish public records of any subpoenas they are presented with annually. Text I would like it changed to: TunnelBear is open about the account data they store in their privacy policy. The provider publishes an annual transparency report, which lays out any changes to their data collection process and lists any law enforcement subpoenas they have been presented with in a given year. Best, PoohBearSA (talk) 21:42, 10 December 2020 (UTC) References References References Thanks for splitting your edits into sections; it makes it easier to evaluate. I have evaluated your prose based on the reference number below. 11)  Partly done This source doesn't verify the first paragraph. You need another source for it. I added the information about the independence of McAfee, but not the general public info because that's too promotional. I also created the History section and included the McAfee acquisition cited in the lede. 12) and 13)  Not done I don't think this information is notable. 14), 15), 16)  Done With some copyediting and wikifying links. I added CNET's review of the service in this section. 17) to 21)  Partly done I agree that the CNET article doesn't say what was quoted from the article so it was removed. However, I want to limit when TunnelBear is sourced in the article because Wikipedia prefers secondary sources. I have reworded the sentence to better reflect what CNET observed in their review of the company. If you would like to change it, please provide a secondary source that refutes the information. Those are my thoughts! As usual, please post questions or further requests below. Happy editing! Z1720 (talk) 22:58, 10 December 2020 (UTC) Thanks so muchZ1720 and Blablubbs! I appreciate your feedback and efforts throughout this process. At this point, I'd like to enquire regarding the advertisement banner. Best, PoohBearSA (talk) 15:49, 11 December 2020 (UTC) Hi @PoohBearSA: I still think the article needs some expansion, particularly in the History section, before the banner can be taken down. An article that has almost half the space devoted to "Features" is still too much in the advertising territory. If another editor comes to a different conclusion I would not oppose them. Z1720 (talk) 03:19, 13 December 2020 (UTC) Hi Z1720 Thanks for your feedback. Much appreciated! Please see the proposed history section below. I’ve gone ahead and included the censorship response paragraph which is currently in the “Features” section in the “History” section of the page, as I think this is a more suitable place for it. History TunnelBear was designed to be a simple VPN for everyday use, as compared to the large number of enterprise VPNs available at the time . As TunnelBear’s service grew, they dedicated more resources to their content access and internet freedom mission. From 2013 onwards, in response to government censorship, TunnelBear temporarily relaxed data limits for individuals living in countries such as Iran, Turkey, and Venezuela, where the government blocked access to certain websites.[6][7][8]:” TunnelBear was acquired by McAfee in March 2018.[1] TunnelBear continues to operate as an independent VPN service.[2] Please let me know your thoughts on this revised “History” section, and how it affects the advertisement banner. Best, PoohBearSA (talk) 17:03, 6 January 2021 (UTC) Hi @PoohBearSA: I would decline to add these into the article. I address my concerns with each sentence below: Paragraph 1, Sentence 1: First problem, it is promotional. I doubt competators made their products intentionally difficult to use. What specifically did TunnelBear do to make the VPN simpler? What problem were they trying to solve? Second, I could not verify the information. Just because something is simpler to use doesn't mean that was the design intention. Paragraph 2, Sentence 1: Way too promotional. This reads like a bunch of tech jargon that doesn't mean anything. What specifically did they do? I have little hope that this sentence can be expanded into acceptable prose. Paragraph 2, Sentence 2: I like it and I would move it to the History section with a rewording, like, "In 2013, TunnelBear temporarily relaxed data limits for individuals living in countries such as Iran, Turkey, and Venezuela, where the government blocked access to certain websites." I would also like a sentence, verified with a source, that describes when the relaxed data limits ended. Paragraph 3: These are already in the history section. Take a look at Cracker Barrel or Odwalla two of Wikipedia's featured articles, for ideas on how to format and write the history section. Your suggestions don't have to be as great as these articles, but it helps to see the ideal structure and language. Please post below if you have any questions. Z1720 (talk) 22:31, 6 January 2021 (UTC) Hi Z1720 Thanks again for your feedback. I’ve gone ahead and given this another try with your notes in mind. Please see below History Early history Tunnelbear was founded in 2011 by Ryan Dochuk and Daniel Kaldor, with the company maintaining a headquarters in Toronto. Both founders had a background working at technology startups, and distinguished Tunnelbear from competitors using “fun” visuals including “quirky, bear-burrowing” animations.  Not done Privacy Canada doesn't have an editorial masthead so I do not consider it a reliable source. In late 2016, the company hired the software security firm Cure53 to perform an audit of the Tunnelbear code base; this audit was released in August 2017. This has reportedly been the first security audit done by a major consumer VPN provider, and has since been adopted as common practice by competitors..  Not done TheVPNlab, PC World, Security Week and VPN Pro are not WP:reliable sources because they do not have a masthead and I cannot confirm who is checking the content for accuracy. If TunnelBear is the first VPN to do the a security audit then there should be news about this in sources deemed extremely reliable. See WP:EXCEPTIONAL. 2018 McAfee acquisition In 2018, Tunnelbear was acquired by established cybersecurity company McAfee and integrated into its consumer division. The strategic acquisition was meant to reinforce McAfee’s consumer protection portfolio by leveraging Tunnelbear’s existing VPN infrastructure. Tunnelbear has remained largely independent of McAfee since the acquisition.  Not done Business Wire distributes press releases from a company, as this article clearly is. The TechCrunch article doesn't verify that Tunnelbear is largely independent of McAfee since its acquisition. The acquisition has been met with some criticism, with commentators highlighting that the company is both owned by an entity as well as being headquartered in a Five Eyes country.  Not done This seems to be a one-man operation so it is akin to a blog post. Ongoing anti-censorship efforts Since 2013, Tunnelbear has focused part of its business on allowing its users to circumvent government censorship. One of the first instances of this effort was during the 2014 Venezuelan Protests, when the company extended relaxed data caps to users connecting from Venezuela.  Not done I translated the page from Spanish, but the article is about Venezuela blocking TunnelBear, not relaxing datacaps. Since then, the provider has expanded this effort by extending similar offers to users in Belarus during the 2020 Belarusian protests, to users in Venezuela during government crackdowns on online freedom of speech in 2020, as well as to Zimbabwe ahead of regional internet shutdowns in 2020. In September 2020, Tunnelbear announced a more aggressive plan to enable users to circumvent censorship in Iran.  Not done The Business & Human Rights Resource Centre is an advocacy organisation, not a media organisation, so I am sceptical of their editorial oversight. Furthermore, they do not have a Wikipedia page, which is a huge red flag for me. TechZim's masthead only contains first names so I don't think it is reliable. The Yahoo source is from Business Wire, which distributes press releases from companies. Thanks for taking the time to read this and help along the way. Please let me know if this is an appropriate edit. Best, PoohBearSA (talk) 21:16, 13 January 2021 (UTC) References Hi @PoohBearSA: I have added some notes below every section. I am sorry but most of the sources you provided are not reliable sources as defined by Wikipedia. I am strict about using reliable sources because Wikipedia wants to avoid companies using our website to promote themselves. WP:RSP has a list of sources that the Wikipedia community has reviewed and rated. I suggest consulting this list to find new sources. Z1720 (talk) 02:10, 15 January 2021 (UTC) Hi Z1720 Thank you for your feedback. I have taken the time to edit the content as suggested and look for appropriate resources. We think some of the current article sources can be repurposed into a better paragraph and have included them in the proposed rewrite below - History Early history Tunnelbear was founded in 2011 by Ryan Dochuk and Daniel Kaldor, with the company maintaining a headquarters in TorontoThe founders chose to distinguish Tunnelbear from competitors using “fun” visuals including quirky bear animations. 2018 McAfee acquisition In 2018, Tunnelbear was acquired by established cybersecurity company McAfee.. The strategic acquisition was meant to reinforce McAfee’s consumer protection portfolio by leveraging Tunnelbear’s existing VPN infrastructure.. The TunnelBear team continues to work on its products under their own brand. The acquisition has been met with some criticism, with commentators highlighting that the company is owned by an American entity and as such must obey U.S. laws Ongoing anti-censorship efforts Since 2013, Tunnelbear has focused part of its business on allowing its users to circumvent government censorship. One of the first instances of this effort was during the 2014 Venezuelan Protests, when the company extended relaxed data caps to users connecting from Venezuela. TunnelBear continues to respond to government censorship by temporarily relaxing data limits for individuals living in countries such as Iran, Turkey, and Venezuela, where the government blocked access to certain websites. Thanks for taking the time to read this. Please let me know if this is an appropriate edit. Best, PoohBearSA (talk) 21:19, 8 March 2021 (UTC) Hi PoohBearSA I'm not assessing many edit requests at the moment. I suggest posting a {{request edit}} template at the top of your latest reply so that another editor can assess the request more quickly. Z1720 (talk) 22:01, 8 March 2021 (UTC)

Edit request March 2021

Hi there,

I've taken the time to propose a "History" section for the TunnelBear page, with the goal of ultimately removing the advertisement banner at the top of the page. I hope you'll find that my suggested edits follow the guidelines. Full disclosure, I work for TunnelBear (I've already completed the disclosure steps). Let me know what you think of the suggested edits! Previous discussion has revolved around finding the best possible sources for this, and I hope that this meets the standards.

History

Early history

Tunnelbear was founded in 2011 by Ryan Dochuk and Daniel Kaldor, with the company maintaining a headquarters in TorontoThe founders chose to distinguish Tunnelbear from competitors using “fun” visuals including quirky bear animations.

 Partly done. The bear animations detail doesn't match the source provided. Plus, this feature is already mentioned in the Features section of the page. I added the "AIR" source to confirm both of Tunnelbear's founders. Heartmusic678 (talk) 14:32, 31 August 2021 (UTC)

2018 McAfee acquisition

In 2018, Tunnelbear was acquired by established cybersecurity company McAfee..

The strategic acquisition was meant to reinforce McAfee’s consumer protection portfolio by leveraging Tunnelbear’s existing VPN infrastructure..The TunnelBear team continues to work on its products under their own brand.

The acquisition has been met with some criticism, with commentators highlighting that the company is owned by an American entity and as such must obey U.S. laws

 Partly done with edits for language based on sources provided. Sources don't mention criticism of TunnelBear falling under U.S. jurisdiction. Heartmusic678 (talk) 15:15, 31 August 2021 (UTC)

Ongoing anti-censorship efforts

Since 2013, Tunnelbear has focused part of its business on allowing its users to circumvent government censorship. One of the first instances of this effort was during the 2014 Venezuelan Protests, when the company extended relaxed data caps to users connecting from Venezuela.

TunnelBear continues to respond to government censorship by temporarily relaxing data limits for individuals living in countries such as Iran, Turkey, and Venezuela, where the government blocked access to certain websites.

 Partly done. Only added sourced info to page. Heartmusic678 (talk) 16:00, 31 August 2021 (UTC)

Best, PoohBearSA (talk) 16:24, 10 March 2021 (UTC)

@PoohBearSA: Your request has been answered. Thanks, Heartmusic678 (talk) 16:01, 31 August 2021 (UTC)

Denmark and Sweden

In the UK, the Swedish proxy would not load and the Danish one hacked my computer- don't trust these guys!2A00:23C7:91AB:BC01:11DF:51BF:B40C:6C4 (talk) 00:46, 19 May 2022 (UTC)