Talk:Turkey/GA1

GA Review

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Reviewer: Tezero (talk · contribs) 03:43, 27 July 2014 (UTC)

REMOVE KEB- I mean, hi! An article on a highly populous, well-known country looks like an interesting nomination, so I'll take a look. Tezero (talk) 03:43, 27 July 2014 (UTC)

Good Article review progress box

Criteria: 1a. prose () 1b. MoS () 2a. ref layout () 2b. cites WP:RS () 2c. no WP:OR () 2d. no WP:CV () 3a. broadness () 3b. focus () 4. neutral () 5. stable () 6a. free or tagged images () 6b. pics relevant () Note: this represents where the article stands relative to the Good Article criteria. Criteria marked are unassessed

• Images all look fine. (Does Abdullah Gül look kinda like Neil deGrasse Tyson to you? Huh.)
• There are some unformatted or improperly formatted citations, e.g. #252 ("Türk kahvesi, UNESCO'nun listesinde"), #237 ("Ankara – T.C. Ziraat Bankası Müzesi"), #64 ("19 Mayıs-Türk Ulusal Kurtuluş Hareketinin Başlangıcı").
• Current citations #125 and #109 are dead links.
• I'm not well-versed on what constitutes a reliable source for geographical/political articles, but the following look unreliable: #149 (History World), #49 (Dolmabahçe Palace Museum), #187 (Blue Mosque - if it's that important, surely you could use a secondary source?).
• There's been a bit of back-and-forth reverting lately. Is that cleared up?

I have to go now, but I'll be back later. Tezero (talk) 02:04, 28 July 2014 (UTC)

Those citation numbers are not correct mate could you please take look at them again? elmasmelih 16:58, 2 August 2014 (UTC)

Someone must've edited since. "Brief Seismic History of Turkey" and "Brief History of ISAF" are dead links. I trust you can find the rest by their titles. Tezero (talk) 17:52, 2 August 2014 (UTC)

I've replaced the dead links with the 'alive' ones. By the way what do you mean by improperly formatted citations ? They have cite web templates though? elmasmelih 13:08, 3 August 2014 (UTC)

They do use that template, perhaps, but they need to show the page's publisher (just whatever website it's hosted on, e.g. "IGN" in a page whose URL begins with "http://www.ign.com/...") [publisher], the date the article was written [date], the date you retrieved it [accessdate], and the author's first [first] and last [last] names. Tezero (talk) 16:06, 3 August 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for clarifying it. I will take care of that three references. Can you provide more of them? elmasmelih 17:58, 3 August 2014 (UTC)

Here they are, in addition to the ones I mentioned above:

• 262: Anadolu Efes S.K.: Our successes
• 259: Türk kahvesi Unesco korumasında - Hürriyet KÜLTÜR - SANAT
• 257: Ethnic Cuisine - Turkey by Terrie Wright Chrones
• 255: Nur İlkin: Taste of Turkish cuisine
• 250: The Media Industry in Turkey
• 244: The first Türkiye İş Bankası headquarters in Ankara
• 235: A list of the buildings designed by Mimar Sinan
• 228: Turkish Statistical Institute: Number of citizens per healthcare personnel in Turkey
• 227: Turkish Statistical Institute: Number of medical institutions in Turkey
• 226: Hürriyet: "Sağlığa 76,3 milyar lira harcandı" (10 October 2013)
• 224: Guide for Foreign Students planning Education in Turkey
• 192: http://www.citypopulation.de/Turkey-RBC20.html December 2013 address-based calculation of the Turkish Statistical Institute as presented by citypopulation.de
• 191: "Interactive Atlas of the World's Languages in Danger". UNESCO.
• 189: "Syria Regional Refugee Response: Turkey". UNHCR.
• 186: Nurcan Kaya and Clive Baldwin (July 2004). "Submission to the European Union and the Government of Turkey". Minority Rights Group International.
• 183: Remote Sensing of Urban and Suburban Areas - Page 295, Tarek Rashed, Carsten Jürgens - 2010
• 182: Daily Life in Ancient and Modern Istanbul - Page 51, Robert Bator - 2000
• 177: Turkish Atomic Energy Authority - Mission of TAEK
• 176: Türkiye Bilimler Akademisi
• 175: Who We Are? | The Scientific And Technological Research Council Of Turkey
• 172: Yol Ağı Bilgileri
• 161: The Unknown TV Giant - Businessweek
• 160: Beko Avrupa’da üçüncülüğe oynuyor
• 159: About | Best-Selling Home Appliance Brand | Beko UK
• 158: "The Shipbuilding Industry in Turkey". OECD. September 2011.
• 154: Turkey - UNESCO World Heritage Centre
• 153: http://www.turkstat.gov.tr/IcerikGetir.do?istab_id=69
• 135: Pontic Mountains and highlands
• 132: "Biodiversity in Turkey".
• 124: Turkey Districts
• 113: "Turkey, Egypt recall envoys in wake of violence". Bloomberg. 16 August 2013.
• 112: "Syria ratchets up tension with Turkey – warning it of dangers of rebel support". Euronews. 4 October 2013.
• 107: http://istanbul2004.ku.edu.tr/syilmaz/public_html/doc/03.pdf
• 70: 19 Mayıs-Türk Ulusal Kurtuluş Hareketinin Başlangıcı
• 62: "Death toll of the Armenian Massacres". Encyclopædia Britannica.
• 57: TheOttomans.org - Discover The Ottomans
• 56: Dolmabahçe Palace Museum
• 45: Müller-Wiener (1977), p. 112.
• 44: Georges Roux - Ancient Iraq page 314
• 42: Urartian Material Culture As State Assemblage: An Anomaly in the Archaeology of Empire, Paul Zimansky, Page 103 of 103-115
• 17: The Economist: "Turkey in the Balkans: The good old days?", 5 November 2011. (Contains the basic information, but it shouldn't all be in the link title.)
• 15: Seal of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs
• 14: Seal of the Grand National Assembly of Turkey
• 13: Seal of the Presidential Office of Turkey
• 12: Sign of Turkish Embassy in Vienna
• 11: Turkish Drivers Licence
• 10: Turkish Identity Card
• 9: Turkish Passport

In addition, are the following sources reliable?

• allaboutturkey.com (133)
• statoids.com (124)
• theottomans.org (57)
• istanbul.net (56) - looks like a tourism website

And for citation 6 ("The World Bank: World Development Indicators Database. Gross Domestic Product 2012. Last revised on 1 July 2013."), see if you can find an archived, stable version at web.archive.org, in case the information changes, which is highly possible if it has been revised.

I think I've decided that I don't care about completely consistent source formatting for GA, but I do care about having the basic information there. At the very least, accessdates and publishers for are necessary for the web citations, in addition to the title and URL. Dates and author names are preferred, but less important. Tezero (talk) 19:20, 3 August 2014 (UTC)

Well i can't do anything for their accesdates mate you should take it into account and I will replace 'istanbul.net' it is a dating site. elmasmelih 22:00, 3 August 2014 (UTC)

Why can't you do anything about the accessdates? I can put today for each of them if you want, but why can't you? Also, yes, please do fix istanbul.net. Tezero (talk) 22:08, 3 August 2014 (UTC)

For example i cannot know that when '*177: Turkish Atomic Energy Authority - Mission of TAEK' added as a reference right? elmasmelih 20:57, 4 August 2014 (UTC)

Oh. Well, that's no problem. Just click each one without an accessdate. If the site isn't dead, put today's date as the accessdate, and if it is, go to http://web.archive.org and find an archived version of the site. (If there isn't an archived version there, remove the information or find another source for it.) I realize it seems silly, but accessdates help show that web retrieval isn't perfect and that, as of that date, the site was working fine. Tezero (talk) 01:37, 5 August 2014 (UTC)

All done. elmasmelih 13:16, 9 August 2014 (UTC)

Alright, good. Have you looked into the possibly unreliable sources, though? I suspect reliable alternatives would be easy enough to find if you've got Google Books in hand. Tezero (talk) 15:42, 9 August 2014 (UTC)

All good except istanbul.net(which I've replaced earlier.) elmasmelih 16:04, 9 August 2014 (UTC)

I'm willing to slide on the other two, but "statoids" really rubs me the wrong way. That site, however, states, "His source was Turkey's State Institute for Statistics. Mario Pezza sent a spreadsheet with population data from the 2000 and 2007 censuses." Why not find and use that information? Tezero (talk) 16:14, 9 August 2014 (UTC)

Also, please find the page numbers for sources with "page needed" tags, such as 50 and 51.

Also, the following information needs citations:

• "In the post–Cold War environment, Turkey's geostrategic importance shifted towards its proximity to the Middle East, the Caucasus and the Balkans."
• "Although the ministers do not have to be members of the parliament, ministers with parliament membership are common in Turkish politics."
• "Turkey's constitution governs the legal framework of the country. It sets out the main principles of government and establishes Turkey as a unitary centralized state. The President of the Republic is the head of state and has a largely ceremonial role. The president is elected for a seven-year term by direct elections. However the current president, Abdullah Gül, was elected in 2007 by parliamentary vote, the system at that time."
• "Both countries were included in the Marshall Plan and OEEC for rebuilding European economies in 1948, and subsequently became founding members of the OECD in 1961."
• "From the beginning of the 19th century onwards, the Ottoman Empire began to decline. As it gradually shrank in size, military power and wealth, many Balkan Muslims migrated to the Empire's heartland in Anatolia" (there is a "not in citation given" tag) - or is all of this covered by citation 58?
• "along with the Circassians fleeing the Russian conquest of the Caucasus. The decline of the Ottoman Empire led to a rise in nationalist sentiment among the various subject peoples, leading to increased ethnic tensions which occasionally burst into violence, such as the Hamidian massacres of Armenians."
• "In 1453, the Ottomans completed their conquest of the Byzantine Empire by capturing its capital, Constantinople."
• "In the 10th century, the Seljuks started migrating from their ancestral homeland into Persia, which became the administrative core of the Great Seljuk Empire."
• "The most powerful of Phrygia's successor states were Lydia, Caria and Lycia."
• "The settlement of Troy started in the Neolithic Age and continued into the Iron Age."
• "The Ottoman Empire was sometimes referred to as Turkey or the Turkish Empire among its contemporaries."

Tezero (talk) 16:14, 9 August 2014 (UTC)

All done. elmasmelih 21:14, 9 August 2014 (UTC)

Nice. I haven't gone through the sources in depth, but try to find page numbers for the books with "page needed" tags (would they be on Google Books?) while I peruse the body text and do a bit of source formatting. Tezero (talk) 23:27, 9 August 2014 (UTC)

Also, I've missed some other things (or have they been added since?) that need sources:

• "The country is among the founding members of the OECD and the G-20 major economies."
• "Another Turkish basketball club, Beşiktaş, won the FIBA EuroChallenge in 2012. The Final of the 2013–14 EuroLeague Women basketball championship was played between two Turkish teams, Galatasaray and Fenerbahçe, and won by Galatasaray."
• "The Turkish women's national volleyball team won the silver medal in the 2003 European Championship, the bronze medal in the 2011 European Championship, and the bronze medal in the 2012 FIVB World Grand Prix. They also won a gold medal (2005), six silver medals (1987, 1991, 1997, 2001, 2009, 2013) and a bronze medal (1993) in the Mediterranean Games. Women's volleyball clubs in Turkey, namely Fenerbahçe, Eczacıbaşı and Vakıfbank, have won numerous European championship titles and medals. Fenerbahçe won the 2010 FIVB Women's Club World Championship and the 2012 CEV Women's Champions League. Representing Europe as the winner of the 2012–13 CEV Women's Champions League, Vakıfbank also became the world champion by winning the 2013 FIVB Women's Club World Championship."
• "Galatasaray won the UEFA Cup and UEFA Super Cup in 2000. The Turkish national football team finished 3rd and won the bronze medal in the 2002 FIFA World Cup and in the 2003 FIFA Confederations Cup; while also reaching the semi-finals (finishing 3rd by goals difference) in the UEFA Euro 2008."
• "Nowadays most controversy is about the Gülen movement, but that controversy is mainly political rather than religious."

In general, every paragraph should end with a citation, because every fact should be cited. The only exception would be when something's extremely obvious, like WP:BLUE. Tezero (talk) 23:36, 9 August 2014 (UTC)

Took care of these issues. Are there any other? elmasmelih 20:00, 10 August 2014 (UTC)

• "There are about 26,000 people who are Jewish, the vast majority of whom are Sephardi" - Can you expand a bit on the history of the Jews in Turkey? One-sentence paragraphs are unseemly, and it'd be interesting to know a little more.
• "Life expectancy stands at 71.1 years for men and 75.3 years for women, with an overall average of 73.2 years for the populace as a whole." - Similarly, can you expand a little? Are any diseases widespread? What are the most common causes of death for Turks?
• "There are 40 national parks, 189 nature parks, 31 nature preserve areas, 80 wildlife protection areas and 109 nature monuments in Turkey." - Can you elaborate a bit? Are there any that are widely known outside Turkey, ones that readers might have heard of?
• I've split up "Culture" into subsections; would you mind figuring out a way to do the same with "Economy"? It's quite long to navigate.
• There's one more uncited statement I've found, marked with a "citation needed" tag.
• The "page needed" tags are still there.

I think it looks good otherwise. Tezero (talk) 20:15, 10 August 2014 (UTC)

All done except for the Economy. If you check the older revisions of this page, you will see that the Economy section merged under one text by consensus. I made partitions but like i said it was merged. And I dont have these books so i cant provide you page numbers mate..elmasmelih 19:55, 11 August 2014 (UTC)

Alright, I've found some on Google Books. I'll go through the rest of the "page needed" tags and then bring up any final issues I have before passing this. Tezero (talk) 20:20, 11 August 2014 (UTC)

Okay, there are still some minor citation issues, but those would be a pain to fix and probably not necessary to the average reader. You're gonna have to fix them if you want to take this to FAC, though. For now, I'll pass this. Nice work. Tezero (talk) 20:39, 11 August 2014 (UTC)

Thanks Tezero i am happy as f*ck right now. If you are eager to help me, we can add the subsection 'Infrastructure' to Economy and can go over those page needed tags. I mean if you are available elmasmelih 17:10, 12 August 2014 (UTC)

Elmasmelih, there aren't any "page needed" tags; I found all the pages (or, where I only had access to a table of contents, ranges of pages) before passing. You can add that subsection and ask me for feedback if you want, though; I don't feel strongly about it. Tezero (talk) 23:45, 12 August 2014 (UTC)

Tezero thanks for your collab. on this article mate. We should give each other barnstars :)elmasmelih 19:46, 13 August 2014 (UTC)