Talk:Turrbal language

Requested move 22 February 2023

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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Turrbal language → Yuggera and Turrbal languages – There appears to be no consensus as to whether Turrbul is a dialect of Yuggera or a language in it's own right. For example, the slq lists them as separate languages (https://www.slq.qld.gov.au/discover/first-nations-cultures/aboriginal-and-torres-strait-islander-languages) while the AIATSIS classifies Turrbul as a variety of Yuggera (https://collection.aiatsis.gov.au/austlang/language/E23). Additionally, the AIATSIS page for Turrbul lists Yuggera as an alternate name so it's hard to know which language is being referred to in sources. Considering the importance of language in Indigenous identity and the dispute as to whether the the Turrbul are a sub group of the Yuggera or not, I think it's best to have an and in the title as I can't think of a general title that respects both positions. If anyone has a suggestion, I would love to hear it. Safes007 (talk) 14:33, 22 February 2023 (UTC) — Relisting. No such user (talk) 12:44, 2 March 2023 (UTC)

• Comment: If it is not clear whether they are distinct languages or not, then why is a title being proposed that says they are different (or at least multiple) languages? —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 16:48, 8 March 2023 (UTC)

  Firstly because I can't think of a better title and secondly there is a difference between the technical use of the term 'language' in linguistics versus common use both broadly and specifically by the Indigenous groups that use the language. Safes007 (talk) 06:55, 9 March 2023 (UTC)

• Oppose. Language–dialect distinctions are frequently blurry, and while I can appreciate the effort to try to create a compromise solution here, I think the proposal is a bit too clunky to really be desirable. I think a better solution would be to retain one name as the article title, and have the other title either redirect here or host a separate article about that language. (The uncertainty over whether the two languages are separate can then be discussed in the body of the article/articles.) In particular, I worry that a title ending in "...languages" might mislead readers into thinking that they're reading an article on a language family rather than just two languages. ModernDayTrilobite (talk • contribs) 15:27, 17 March 2023 (UTC)

  Out of this particular discussion's scope (because it would need a multi-move RM): so just out of curiosity, what do you think of Turrbal language → Turrbal and Turrbal → Turrbal people? Rotideypoc41352 (talk · contribs) 19:35, 18 March 2023 (UTC)

  If we kept the current name here, I would suggest Turrbal langauge and Turrbal people, similar to French language and French people Safes007 (talk) 15:30, 19 March 2023 (UTC)

  Would another solution be to name the article 'Yagera language family' or similar? Then all the languages could be listed under separate headings with a description of the different classifications. I'd use yagera for the title as it appears to be the name of the family in the most recent academic source I could find in Dixon (2002). Safes007 (talk) 15:29, 19 March 2023 (UTC)

  Wouldn't that be a distinct subject that could potentially merit its own distinct article? Rotideypoc41352 (talk · contribs) 23:04, 20 March 2023 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Classification

Hello all

I have added Bowern's (2013) classification of Turrbul as one of five "Turubulic" languages, the others being: Nunukul, Yaraga, Janday and Guwar. Aemilius Adolphin (talk) 00:02, 23 May 2024 (UTC)

Dialects of Turrbal?

Hello all

I have deleted the dialects part of the info box because as far as I can see none of the sources quoted in the article state that Yagara, "Turubul", Jandai and Nunukul/Moonjan are dialects of Turrbal. My understanding is that the main line of disagreement is whether Turrbal is a dialect of a larger language group which can be called Durubal/Yuggera/Yugarabul or whether Turrbal, Yagara, Janday and Guwar and perhaps others, are separate languages. Bowern (2013) p. lxxxiv has a handy table which summarises the different approaches. Aemilius Adolphin (talk) 00:26, 23 May 2024 (UTC)