Talk:Typhoon Yagi/Archive 1

Archive 1

Infobox confusion

The infobox contains "Violent typhoon" and data, and then "Category 4-equivalent super typhoon" and different data. So which is it? Should the infobox contain only one?

Anna Frodesiak (talk) 07:26, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

As the JMA and JTWC track storms (the JTWC took responsibility for the basin from 1945 while the JMA done so a few years later, later becoming the RSMC in the basin), both of their winds are included. OhHaiMark (talk) 11:54, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

Thanks, OhHaiMark. Visitors reading the infobox with nevertheless be confused. Is there a way to add an asterisk or something with an explanation? Simply everyone will read the infobox and see two conflicting entries. Best, Anna Frodesiak (talk) 21:29, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

Yagi recently achieved Category 5 Status (Unconfirmed)

According to AccuWeather, The National Hurricane Center says Around 160 MPH from 6 PM. However, it is now around 150 MPH. 75.74.83.12 (talk) 00:41, 6 September 2024 (UTC)

AccuWeather is not a reliable source for this information. _ZZ^Z'S 00:46, 6 September 2024 (UTC)

Yagi makes landfall at 150 MPH 75.74.83.12 (talk) 11:08, 6 September 2024 (UTC)

Yagi is a super typhoon

stop changing 49.184.6.192 (talk) 12:34, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

No it's not. Even though the JTWC considers Yagi a super typhoon, we're going off of the JMA, so in that case, its a VIOLENT typhoon, not a SUPER typhoon.

For our sake, though, we just refer to it as Typhoon Yagi. Accordthemusician (talk) 14:31, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

Super typhoon is NOT an official designation recognized by the WMO for these events, so no it can't be added in the infobox Wolf20482 (talk) 15:07, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

Your statement can also be a valid response Accordthemusician (talk) 15:19, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

@Accordthemusician It appears that this user has kept changing the infobox from "Typhoon" to "Super Typhoon" after this reply, despite being reverted back multiple times Wolf20482 (talk) 01:38, 6 September 2024 (UTC)

They also appear to use a sock IP per [1]. Requesting stricter action against this. Borgenland (talk) 07:24, 6 September 2024 (UTC)

They're anonymous IPs so it's much harder to take action. In addition this clearly seems to be from another IP range than the original one Wolf20482 (talk) 11:13, 6 September 2024 (UTC)

maybe change who can edit the page? Accordthemusician (talk) 11:20, 6 September 2024 (UTC)

There is already a "pending change" protection on this page that requires all edits by IPs and new users to be reviewed by a more experienced user. They should reject that revision Wolf20482 (talk) 11:28, 6 September 2024 (UTC)

Strange though. There’s been a backlog. I’ve also requested a change to AC Access. Borgenland (talk) 11:58, 6 September 2024 (UTC)

Escalation to semi-protection (autoconfirmed and above) is most likely to be warranted given the current situation. It both discourages the author (which is using anonymous IPs instead of an actual account) from making further disruptive changes, and reduces the work of reviewers Wolf20482 (talk) 12:08, 6 September 2024 (UTC)

Landfall in Guangdong?

[2] mentions landfall in Xuwen County. Any official report to corroborate this? Borgenland (talk) 06:54, 7 September 2024 (UTC)

There's this from Xinhua, which mentions both landfalls. ~ KN2731 {talk · contribs} 07:38, 7 September 2024 (UTC)

Requested move 6 September 2024

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more templates or modules. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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Typhoon Yagi (2024) → Typhoon Yagi – Per WP:PRIMARYTOPIC. This is the only typhoon named Yagi to have caused serious impacts to land areas, it has made landfall in China as a Category 4 typhoon, with more impacts being forecasted in Vietnam, and is therefore more notable than other typhoons of the same name such as Typhoon Yagi (2006) and should be renamed without the year. ChrisWx ☁️ (talk - contribs) 23:17, 6 September 2024 (UTC)

Support - Certainly already the most significant storm of its name, seems like a no-brainer. Cherkasy0 (talk) 23:42, 6 September 2024 (UTC)

Support per nom HurricaneEdgar 23:43, 6 September 2024 (UTC)

Support per nom. IrishSurfer21 (talk) 00:20, 7 September 2024 (UTC)

Support per above. --_ZZ^Z'S 00:23, 7 September 2024 (UTC)

Support, echoing the same reasonings above. Wolf20482 (talk) 01:01, 7 September 2024 (UTC)

Support as this year's Yagi is clearly more important than the other ones. OhHaiMark (talk) 01:13, 7 September 2024 (UTC)

• Strong speedy support per nom. Recently made a damaging landfall on Hainan, and it is currently set to make an absolutely unprecedented landfall on Vietnam shortly. ArkHyena (talk) 04:01, 7 September 2024 (UTC)

Support per above. AluminiumWithAnI (talk) 04:23, 7 September 2024 (UTC)

Support per above TheWxResearcher (talk) 07:26, 7 September 2024 (UTC)

• Support. The 2024 iteration of Yagi is the most notable one and meets WP:PRIMARYTOPIC, owing to its historic landfalls in Hainan and northern Vietnam. Vida0007 (talk) 10:59, 7 September 2024 (UTC)
• Support: Caused significant landfalls on Hainan, just made landfall in Vietnam, and is the only typhoon with this name to cause serious damage, at least for now. HarukaAmaranth 11:37, 7 September 2024 (UTC)
• Support per above. Quake1234 (talk) 12:03, 7 September 2024 (UTC)
• Support per above. This iteration of Yagi is too special; its damages will total to more than $365 million after evaluations. --Bugnawfang (talk) 13:13, 7 September 2024 (UTC)

It is very obvious what the consensus is. I suggest any uninvolved users close this discussion quickly. _ZZ^Z'S 13:32, 7 September 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Record

For Vietnam: The strongest super typhoon of 2024 in the Northwest Pacific region up to now with a strong intensity of level 16, gusting over level 17. This is a storm with an unprecedented speed of increasing in intensity in Vietnam's meteorological history, reaching super typhoon level from level 8-9 to 16 in just 48 hours. This is the third time in history that the level 4 natural disaster risk level (red) has been issued and also the first time in history that level 4 has been used in the Gulf of Tonkin. The barometric pressure value of 938hba at the center of the storm has dropped to the lowest level in more than half a century in the history of storm observations by Vietnam's meteorological department. This is a storm that has caused destruction over the past years, and is also the first storm to reach Category 4 when it hits the mainland of Vietnam.

For the world: This is the second strongest storm to make landfall on Hainan Island according to SSHWS since 1945 after Rammasun_2014 with winds of 125kts. In terms of pressure according to JMA, it is equal to Rai_2021 in the East Sea. In terms of wind intensity according to JTWC, it is in the top 2 with 135kts after the top 1 with 140kts including Rai_2021; Rammasun_2014; Pamela_1954. In terms of data JMA as the RSMC of the WPAC has achieved a record for the west coast of the Philippines according to #PAGASA in 55 years with Rai_2021. -- I think we should write another record after this storm is over. Nguyễn Quốc Anh (1248) (talk) 14:39, 7 September 2024 (UTC)

Please use reliable sources. Not all sources regarding records should be included in the article, as doing so might lead to WP:Original research. HurricaneEdgar 14:44, 7 September 2024 (UTC)

It has been published in our country's media, especially the National Hydrometeorological Forecasting Center, but it is not data based on personal feelings. Nguyễn Quốc Anh (1248) (talk) 16:53, 7 September 2024 (UTC)

Already redundant as stated in an edit summary. Furthermore, if you are to insist on reinserting that I suggest you fix the grammar as it seriously reads as unencyclopedic and WP:TRIVIA. Borgenland (talk) 14:45, 7 September 2024 (UTC)

You can edit it based on my opinion but you are not allowed to delete it because it has simply been published in our country's media. Nguyễn Quốc Anh (1248) (talk) 16:54, 7 September 2024 (UTC)

Not everything published is WP:DUE though. Advise you also to watch against WP:OWN especially with you making such uncalled for conditions. Borgenland (talk) 17:36, 7 September 2024 (UTC)

I don't need to know, I'm from Vietnam, I understand everything here and remember that international media rarely reports on Vietnam, especially the weather. I want the site to have more complete information, but if you don't want to, then that's fine because the world's meteorological experts weren't in Vietnam when the storm hit, so they wouldn't know. Nguyễn Quốc Anh (1248) (talk) 23:50, 7 September 2024 (UTC)

Typhoon Enteng

Typhoon Enteng is is China. WilhelmReinHernandez (talk) 07:16, 8 September 2024 (UTC)

Casualties

Hi @Borgenland, I noticed that you reverted my recent edit regarding the casualties of Typhoon Yagi. I wanted to clarify the source I used and the discrepancy in the figures. The figure I cited was from a respected Vietnamese newspaper, which was based on official data from the Vietnam Disaster and Dyke Management Authority. This is the most reliable and direct source for this information. I understand that you used a foreign source that lists a higher death toll, but as a native Vietnamese speaker, I can confirm that this foreign source likely includes both the dead and missing in their number, due to a mistranslation or misunderstanding of the original Vietnamese reports. Since foreign media often cite Vietnamese state media for such figures, I believe that using the official data directly from a reputable Vietnamese source would be more accurate and avoid any confusion. The latest figure I found is 49 people killed and 22 missing, for a total of 71 people, as reported by the official Online Newspaper of the Communist Party of Vietnam. This figure is also cited by reputable international sources, including The New York Times and The Guardian. Ltn12345 (talk) 15:17, 9 September 2024 (UTC)

The latest sourced figures I have is at 64. But I think it would be best if other editors could weigh in. The main reason I had for reverting was that there were contradictory numbers of overall dead in the same section. Borgenland (talk) 15:22, 9 September 2024 (UTC)

I'm sorry

I didn't mean to wreck some parts of the article, I didn't even know I did all that, the only parts I edited was the Vietnam impact section and the typhoon table, it might be a glitch but i apologize for the mess. SomeoneWiki04 (talk) 06:21, 11 September 2024 (UTC)

No prob. Restored your revisions also. Borgenland (talk) 06:24, 11 September 2024 (UTC)

Update Dead in Viet Nam

Hi Hurrican Edgar, You can see on this site and update them because in here 6 hours to update once. Thank. Nguyễn Quốc Anh (1248) (talk) 09:08, 11 September 2024 (UTC)

More Haikou photos

I have lots more. But they just show damage. Would this be useful? Anna Frodesiak (talk) 11:03, 11 September 2024 (UTC)

Go for it. Any will be valuable. Bremps... 03:00, 12 September 2024 (UTC)

Okay. I will select the best ones I have. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 07:31, 12 September 2024 (UTC)

Casualties in Vietnam

The number of 145 missing is probably outdated, Newer sources stated 199 deaths and 128 missing, It's more than likely that some of the missing people were found dead, And also, the 4 deaths before landfall are also probably included in the death toll of 199 in the newer sources, So should I change it?. SomeoneWiki04 (talk) 09:31, 12 September 2024 (UTC)

No objections on my part. Borgenland (talk) 09:54, 12 September 2024 (UTC)

Potential redevelopment over the Bay of Bengal

Just a question, as the remnants of Yagi are being tracked by the IMD, if they regenerate into a cyclonic storm, should Yagi be moved? OhHaiMark (talk) 20:28, 12 September 2024 (UTC)

No, if the storm is not the same system, it should not be moved. This is similar to Tropical Storm Alex (2022) and Hurricane Agatha. HurricaneEdgar 21:41, 12 September 2024 (UTC)

Maybe Typhoon Yagi and BOB 05? Just a random Wikipedian^(talk) 16:21, 13 September 2024 (UTC)

Not really. It's more like Tropical storms Amanda and Cristobal. Maybe it should be named Typhoon Yagi and Cyclone BOB 05? OhHaiMark (talk) 16:46, 13 September 2024 (UTC)

I think the title of the article should remain, as it reflects a situation similar to that in the Atlantic, where remnants re-emerge and intensify, like what happened with Hurricane Grace. HurricaneEdgar 19:08, 13 September 2024 (UTC)

Not really, in Marty's article, it originated from "a new surface center separate from Grace's previous one", meaning that Grace never regenerated into a tropical cyclone, only contributing to Marty's formation. Conversely, Amanda's remnants directly regenerated into Cristobal. OhHaiMark (talk) 19:13, 13 September 2024 (UTC)

Rather than using the alternative name, we should use 'Typhoon Yagi,' which has received more media attention. Also, instead of moving directly into the article, we should mention this in the lead. HurricaneEdgar 19:19, 13 September 2024 (UTC)

Well, media attention doesn't mean much for titles and at most, only a sentence or two should be dedicated for this in the lede. OhHaiMark (talk) 19:27, 13 September 2024 (UTC)

WP:NOTNEWS as the media does not dictate how Wikipedia works. Because BOB 05 is ex-Yagi, the page title should reflect this. This has been done with other examples such as 2013’s Tropical Depressions Wilma and BOB 05, 2020’s Tropical storms Amanda and Cristobal, 2019’s Cyclone Matmo–Bulbul, 2016’s Cyclones Vardah and ARB 02, and so forth. So this should be moved and the infobox and lead have been adjusted accordingly. MarioProtIV (^talk/_contribs) 19:32, 13 September 2024 (UTC)

I’ve gone ahead and BOLDly moved it per WP:PRECISE to make the distinction. The best case of this is Vardah which was moved under the same pretenses. MarioProtIV (^talk/_contribs) 19:37, 13 September 2024 (UTC)

WP:NOTNEWS does not state that the article title needs to be determined, and my position still stands. The same argument applies to whoever reverted the move. HurricaneEdgar 22:36, 13 September 2024 (UTC)

I would like to see a source that says that the remnants of Yagi made it into the NIO from the JTWC or the IMD and not a news article.Jason Rees (talk) 22:51, 13 September 2024 (UTC)

"Deep Depression BOB 05"?

@HurricaneEdgar: The source [3] does not contain the full phrase "Deep Depression BOB 05". It only contains "deep depression". Googling "Deep Depression BOB 05" only results in Wikipedia mirrors and 2020/2023/etc. years instead of 2024.

No reliable sources use the name "Deep Depression BOB 05", and we should not invent our own name per WP:COMMONNAME or WP:NOR. 174.89.12.36 (talk) 09:13, 14 September 2024 (UTC)

The same practice that we used in the past season when a storm forms is still in place. There are two main seas in the North Indian Ocean: the Arabian Sea to the west of the Indian subcontinent, abbreviated as ARB by the India Meteorological Department (IMD), and the Bay of Bengal to the east, abbreviated as BOB by the IMD. Each of these two main seas is assigned a numerical designation, which you can see at the top of the IMD bulletin. HurricaneEdgar 10:07, 14 September 2024 (UTC)

Yagi-BOB_05

When the Indian system dissolves, there will be a more comprehensive assessment. Nguyễn Quốc Anh (1248) (talk) 23:22, 14 September 2024 (UTC)

Strongest typhoon in Vietnam

The Government of Vietnam reviewed Yagi as the strongest typhoon making landfall in Vietnam in 70 years. Source: https://baochinhphu.vn/thu-tuong-chu-tri-hoi-nghi-khac-phuc-hau-qua-bao-voi-4-muc-tieu-lon-102240915084502046.htm. 117.1.85.84 (talk) 05:32, 15 September 2024 (UTC)

Did you read the reason on why your edit was reverted: "Probably better to mention in the section the strongest are already mentioned."? Wolf20482 (talk) 06:13, 15 September 2024 (UTC)

You have also added a reference named vtvyagi2 in some of your revisions (here and here for instance), but the reference isn't meaningfully defined and caused a Cite error. Can you consider fixing that? Wolf20482 (talk) 06:18, 15 September 2024 (UTC)

Re-add impact from Bangladesh and India?

Shortly before I posted this, the casualties and impact of Yagi in Bangladesh has been removed. I understand why considering the storm technically dissipated over Yunnan with the remnants causing chaos in Myanmar and Thailand, but considering that some sources said that the remnants of Yagi regained strength and became a cycloninc depression, it would feel quite fair to include the impact of the depression in Bangladesh and India as both systems are technically the same storm given the context of it all. Should we do what the title of this discussion says? Quake1234 (talk) 21:43, 14 September 2024 (UTC)

The "same storm" is a violation of WP:OR since official sources do not portray this as such. Noah, BSBA^Talk 22:04, 14 September 2024 (UTC)

Well, there are secondary sources stating that Yagi did regenerate over the Bay of Bengal: this piece by India Today and this piece by Business Today. OhHaiMark (talk) 02:19, 15 September 2024 (UTC)

So it shoild be added back then. 2600:1014:B14C:D3B8:0:56:5062:8501 (talk) 17:17, 15 September 2024 (UTC)

Strong Oppose until meteorological sources state that Yagi's remnants contributed to the formation of Deep Depression BoB 05, since the two articles linked above only suggest that they might have contributed.Jason Rees (talk) 18:33, 15 September 2024 (UTC)

Why are individual storm not included?

I've never seen anything like this before, Individual storms are usually included in the see also, I've actually added one storm (Tropical Storm Prapiroon (2024)) in the see also section but I revisited it and saw that all storms are gone. Why? SomeoneWiki04 (talk) 12:21, 14 October 2024 (UTC)