Talk:Tyranid

Untitled

This discussion page has been archived (1) as most of it is exceedingly old. Let's keep things neat and tidy, eh? Sojourner001 18:14, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

first edition, Rogue Trader

conventional equipment

The line The first Tyranids used conventional, non-biological equipment such as lasguns and flak armour is virtually a quote from Games Workshop: http://us.games-workshop.com/games/40k/tyranids/articles/genesis.htm

I remember Rogue Trader did not include specialist weapons for (at that time) minor races. Hence Tyranids and Zoats had to be equipped with conventional equipment. --Air 12:49, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

board game incarnations

I notice that Ultra Marines did not actually feature any alien races, but was a simplified scout vs. scout game. Source: http://www.boardgamegeek.com/game/8728 --Air 13:10, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

Space Hulk definately included Genestealers and that was a boardgame SanchiTachi 18:49, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

!!!

What happened to the article? I come back and its a jumbled mess! Why do we have the "Tyranid Info" section? It's pointless, that small bit of information can be placed throughout the article. What the crap are all the bio-enhancements doing here?

I'm afraid to see the other articles. Colonel Marksman 00:07, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

Agreed, this article has filled up with garbage and cruft since I last saw it. I'd like some consent to revert to a very old edit of mine, which in my opinion was closer to what we're after than anything that's come after - which is largely nonsense and irrelevant trivia. Sojourner001 16:17, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

The article is far cleaner than what it was, and now has points, issues, and the likes attributed. If you revert it, instead of improving different parts, then you not here to help, but only want to damage the article as a whole. Please keep that in mind. And before you start accusing things of fan craft, please follow the Ettiquette rules. Its not your place to judge the article as good or bad, or pass any such value judgments on things like that. There is very little "irrelevant trivia" included, and your lack of appropriately quoting such as example is proof of that. SanchiTachi 16:24, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

Tyranid Strategy

As a suggestion, maybe there should be a section on tyranid strategies. Please vote. An idea would be to build the section here and openly edit it before it goes on into the article. I suggest that the section be subdivided into godzilla army strategy, swarm strategy, and a jack-of-all-trades army strategy. Things to include would be components required for each army and their roles which produce the maximum effect. Multitallented 03:45, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

Yea, but don't title it "strategy." It should deal with the different tactics included in the book. It should be expanded to cover operating with genestealer based armies (I have the official subcodex for that), or with the different brood amounts. Also, whoever you are that wrote this area, please make a user name so we know what to address you as. Thanks. SanchiTachi 18:46, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

It has been brought to my attention that strategy guides are not content to be posted on wikipedia. Maybe a source could be quoted about tyranid strategy leading to a web page on tyranid strategy?Multitallented 16:40, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

No. 'Strategy' isn't encyclopedic or particularly relevant, and should go. Sojourner001 16:21, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

Before you make more claims without proof, the strategy section is cited and was included in the book in order to show what kind of creature/army the Tyranids were. Just like animal pages have eating habits and sex habits, an Army page should have the appropriately sourced strategy section. That is how Encyclopedias work. Even Napoleon has strategy talked about. SanchiTachi 16:29, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

Actually I agree with Sojourner, Strategy isn't encylopedic. That should belong on a forum.Multitallented 15:56, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

Have a source to demonstrate that the Strategy section as put forth is not encyclopedic? Because I followed the same way that other games follow in putting forth such things. Also, Brittanica does talk about Napoleon's use of cannons in battle and how the Roman Testudo works, so Encyclopedias do include strategy. SanchiTachi 16:08, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

Here is some proof to what I say:

• "Lobbying strategies and tactics" http://www.britannica.com/eb/article-257771/interest-group
• "From late 1942 German strategy, every feature of which was determined by Hitler, was solely aimed at protecting the still very large area under German contro" http://www.britannica.com/eb/article-53582/World-War-II
• "Strategy of contract bridge The object in contract bridge is to score as many points as possible and to permit the opponents to score as few points as possible. The strategy employed by the best players in pursuit of this object embraces a technique that in complexity approaches the technique of chess, as well as a scope for deductive analysis, psychology, alertness, and mental ascendancy over…"http://www.britannica.com/eb/article-256390/bridge

As you can see, three such strategy sections from Brittanica, and there are many more. SanchiTachi 16:17, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

I thought I had weighed in here... But it must have been at some other strategy discussion. My opinion though is in line with Sanchi's, if one can provide source material that supports the strategy, then it certainly should be included. --Falcorian ^(talk) 16:29, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

• I am against having this page for any of our articles. Reason: They don't exist anymore. All a strategy is is a playstyle, and Games Workshop removed them in newer Codexes. Besides, the Tyranid Codex (none of them) have listed tactics anyway. The Tyranids can be modified in too many different ways to have any specific "strategy" or "tactic". Oh yes, who knows the difference between strategy and tactics?

In this case, the Tyranid strategy is to take over a planet by overwhelming their foes. How they go about it battle is the tactic. In reality, we'd be posting "Tyranid Tactics" not strategy. Colonel Marksman 19:33, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

You do know that old Codexes are still verifiable and still need to have their information presented, right? Just remember that its not a good way to rationalize an edit solely on that point. Also, remember that random people will continue to put it back in, and such information is verifiable, which means that its allowed on wiki. SanchiTachi 19:45, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

• You're not understanding the point. There are not set or defined tactics for the Tyranids, or any race. All they are is play style. There's numberless play styles, and it would be impractical to try and name them all. Worse, you can't give a viable source for any of them. Most of it is all opinionated anyway.

A Godzilla list, for example. You can't source that. If you can't source it, don't post it. Articles should only have raw, proven facts only. With this, there's also no room for NPOV problems, because it is neutral. No opinions to balance or argue with. Colonel Marksman 19:56, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

I know. I created the original thing as a source to keep people from randomly throwing it back up. Also, the NPOV is how you word or introducing yourself. If you quote, your quote can have the point of view for the source. Minor difference, but yeah. I just wanted to warn you about the dangerous area of anonymous user battle you'll have to go through for the removing of the section. lol :) SanchiTachi 20:09, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

Tyranid Building Modifications

I propose that a section be made specifically to introduce deviations in assembly of tyranid models, such as the carnifex. An example would be a picture of the assembled model and possible list of all biomorphs it represents. Please post suggestions here. Multitallented 03:45, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

As with the tyranid strategy section, the same thing could be done for mods on building.Multitallented 16:41, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

Why not add any info on this that you can cite to the biomorphs section? One picture may work (or a few tiny pictures) for the whole thing, as they only need an idea of what is being talked about instead of examples for each. It is important to include such information to distinguish the Tyranids as an army in a game, as opposed to an in-universe alien page. SanchiTachi 16:33, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

The Changes

I went through, put more specific sourcing, and I revamped the different pages.

I organized, destroyed redunancies, and made so many changes that my head is spinning. I spent a long time trying to organize and kill anything that was too wordy, already there, etc.

I hope the page works and is a lot cleaner than before. Any reviews and spelling/grammar would be helpful. SanchiTachi 00:04, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

Zoanthrope origin

I added the fact they're harvested from Eldar DNA, as that was included in the Tyranid Codex.

Kaenei 19:49, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

Note, it was in the 3rd edition but not the 4th and was deemed "classified." That means that its an idea. Maybe we should create a biomorophs/weapons page and include possible origins of such creatures there and then note that those have been deemed Classified in order to make the knowledge in dispute. How does that sound? SanchiTachi 19:56, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

The official origin of the DNA used in the creation of a Zoanthrope is unknown; I think that Eldar DNA is the most likely, since the Eldar's psykers are probably the best-known in the Warhammer 40K universe, and the Zoanthrope is limited almost entirely to its psychic abilities. Groundlord (talk) 17:46, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

A Proposal

I expanded the different pages to make a Warrior Genus page and worked the Genestealers to follow the same organization structure. I will work out a Gaunt Page and a page for the Titans. However, I think all four would be greatly served by an info box or a genetic chart. If someone wants to put together a hand drawn version of the 4th edition chart and then "emphasize" in the picture the specific group, then that would be great. SanchiTachi 02:35, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

Squigs

The section on squigs has numerous basic grammar and spelling errors. I fixed several obvious things, but someone with more knowledge of the subject material should clean up the rest, especially the line "Although there ones diviced from squats and Eldar as well." I have no idea what the word "diviced" is supposed to be, or for that matter what a "squat" is. --erunaheru 03:42, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

Derived? And a Squat is a space dwarf. :) SanchiTachi 03:44, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

Another thing is the influences from ancient culture. Notably the use of Norn to refer to the Norn Queens. In ancient norse mythology the Norn Queens were similar to the weavers of greek culture or the spinners of Roman culture who dictated an individuals destiny.--Dominic Russell (talk) 23:24, 9 April 2010 (UTC)

My Review

1. Remove personal opinion please! Using adjectives like "awesome" falls under opinion, and doesn't belong in encyclopedic articles.

2. We need to reorganize the speces. Lictors aren't monstrous creatures, and Hive Tyrants are. The branching pages also seem... unworkable. Look, you have a list filled with creatures with one to two sentences long for each. Then you take that and place the list as its own stand-alone article. That just doesn't register to me. I understand lists exist, but lists exist because they are too long to keep on the main page. What we need to do is to first of all make a list of ALL the species (including those from Battlefleet Gothic) into one page. THEN pick the page apart and make needed branches. The Tyranids are too big for their tails on Wikipedia right now; they take up more articles than they need to. While I find it distasteful to have one article overflowing with details, I also find it distasteful to have articles with several unncessary branches. Both are hard and complicated to keep up with, edit, and search through for information.

3. We still need more pictures.

4. Despite these, I do agree the Tyranid article is in much better shape than before. The 'Tyranid Genetics' page is exactly the way I dreamed for the Tyranid's 'weapons and equipment' page. Only, we need to put in weapons. Colonel Marksman 20:02, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

A few responses. 1. Where the hell did that come from? lol, I don't know why it would be in there. 2. Lictors are elite choices, but yeah, the section should be renamed to larger tyranids or something else to separate those from the ones below. The Tyrants need to be with the other synapse creatures. However it can be worked out, thats probably the best. The branches that I put forth so far was Titans (which seemed obvious), the Genestealers (they had their own variant army) and the Warrior Genus (which is broken down in the 4th edition codex as such). I left out the Gaunts because I didn't have time to move them to its own page. It would group 5 or more individual notable units into each page. The Titans page doesn't have much information because I don't have my book to fill in the gaps. 3. Agreed. 4. The weapons section definately needs to be added so they can be linked to the appropriate mentions (I believe there are over 30 references to weapons in the various sections).

Some fat that can be trimmed can definately be found in the first part of the History, by 50 or so words. Also, the gaming section at the end with the variations in the editions can be trimmed by at least 50 words. That would help quite a bit. The introduction to the notable characters can be trimmed down and renamed to fit the new name for the "monstrous characters" section. SanchiTachi 20:18, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

Update - I went ahead and trimmed some stuff. Do we need to have a mention of the Tyranid Model Range? I think such things could be moved onto individual pages (such for Tyrants, have Tyrant Guards as a catagory and then explain the difference of the models over time, not much of course). I do think we would need a mention of the Hive Fleet pieces (the Battlefleet Gothic Pieces) or we could trim down the hive fleets, move the bulk of the info to its own page, and then mention the types of ships provided in Gothic in addition. What do you think? SanchiTachi 20:31, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

• Alright! The article is looking awesome! A few more references, and a few more pics, and this could be a featured article... imo. Colonel Marksman 00:39, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

Quick question: I'm making a Gaunts page in the same manner as warriors and Genestealers (Genestealers page needs a little help to flesh it out), but do you think I should make a "fleets" page, talk about some of the particular fleets and how they operated (trimming the article part just to the "history" of the fleet) and then move the ship pictures over (so we have a bridge to the alternative games, like Gothic)? If so, I can hunt down a different picture of the Hive Ship for this page. SanchiTachi 00:46, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

A Question/Favor to Ask

Does anyone know of the Black Library books that involve Tyranids? If so, could you put information here on them (a one paragraph synopsis of the book, reference details, etc), so we can put together a Black Library section? Or at least list the books at the bottom of the page. I know there are a few for Macragge. SanchiTachi 02:05, 22 May 2007 (UTC) The only couple that havent been mentioned I can think of off the top of my head is the short stories book Deathwing, in the Deathwing short story Ansell/William King where some DA's take on a 'Stealer cult, and also in the same book The Alien Beast Within by Ian Watson, where a Callidus assassin infiltrates a cult. Both are short stories but Deathwing is especially important and Alien Beast was a fairly good/quick read. Cant think of any others but I know there is one more. I'll check back in this weekend after I rummage through my boxes. ChonkE (talk) 10:44, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

Malanthobe

The malanthobe isnt a bio-titan which means it should be in the tyranid section rather than the tyranid titan section. General Aion 05:46, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

You mean the Malanthrope? Technically, its taller than a Carnifex, and its a special (and expensive) model from Forge World, and it had rules along side of the titans in the current rules for Epic (or at least the current tyranid rules that on the specialist games website for them). It just seemed more convienent to put them there instead of worrying about it too catagories too much (plus, I looked at the chart on the current Tyranids codex and any that were "speculated" for origins I just lumped them in with titans, as they all seemed to be "bigger" versions of what they were speculated to be from, I hope this helps). SanchiTachi 05:54, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

Reaper-Fex

In a white dwarf based campainge somone made a big tyranid creature and it was called "the Reaper-Fex" should we add it or isnt ther enough fluff? It did say were it origated and how it attacked though. General Aion 05:48, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

There are a lot of white dwarf campaigns and I believe the carnifex variants are covered on the Warrior Genus page. Only the really "special" models should be mentioned, which were the three unique versions of the warrior bases (ravener, carnifex and lictor). But yeah, the Warrior Genus page has a lot of extra information. SanchiTachi 05:54, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

But it had its own special rules- it was not a carnifex variant. It looked like a cross between a carnifex and a ravener. Hers a link to a picture of it: http://www.games-workshop.com.au/cs/laius/painting/thecreature/images/battle1.jpg General Aion 07:45, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

That is most definitely a Trygon. (sov)

Hmmm, well, the model was never sold, and conversion pieces aren't allowed (only "official" pieces are, i.e. models with approved rules and produced models). It can be mentioned in the gaming section, as a campaign was created with a conversion piece, and then link to the page discussing it (I would put a paragraph on the campaign), but isn't "canon" enough to go on the Carnifex page or as a special character. Special characters need to have an official special model and official special rules (and also have to be "usable" as the special character). SanchiTachi 16:14, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

It had aproved special rules published in WD 310. General Aion 01:52, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

That is a tyranid created specifically for a a narrative campain held in the Australian White dwarf running from issue 310 to 313. It was not approved by Games Workshop (though the rules were designed by thier employees) and not intended for general use. It is also most definitely not a trygon. For some background, it was called the 'Lauis Horror' (not Reaper-Fex) and was a creature developed by a hive ship frozen and buried on the quarantined world of Lauis Rift. It had the ability to hide itself in the bodies of humans, killing them by bursting out. The story involved an Adaptus Mechanicus expedition (note the men in photo of above link) landing on the world to search for crashed alien ships and unlocking the tyranids. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.183.79.186 (talk) 22:29, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

Tyranid vessels

Do you think we should have a section or page for tyranid vessels from BFG? Or maybe we should put them as a species- there living anyway. General Aion 07:52, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

Already have one, its the Hive Fleets page. SanchiTachi 16:12, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Tyranids Cover 3rd.jpg

Image:Tyranids Cover 3rd.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 04:47, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Tyranids Codexr.JPG

Image:Tyranids Codexr.JPG is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 04:47, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Space hulk cover.JPG

Image:Space hulk cover.JPG is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 08:31, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

Hive Fleet Carcaradon

I just removed it from the "Other Hive Fleets" section. No such fleet exists as far as I'm aware, let alone one encountered by the Necrons on Kronus. Especially when you consider that there are no Tyranids in Dawn of War whatsoever.

Google however returns results for "Hive Fleet Carcharodon". Suspect this may have been a fan's edit to include their own hive fleet.

Can whoever's doing that not do it please. The whole point of this article is to show Tyranids as they appear in official publications, not to boost your own ego. If this however is an actual Hive Fleet, please cite and link source material to confirm it.

-The Great Unwashed 07:13, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

-gaunt or -gant?

Apologies if this is common knowledge, but it seems like some of the WH40K fiction is inconsistent in spelling Tyranid types, varying for example in Termagant/Hormagaunt while on the Tyranid page it is Termagaunt (and redirects to Termagant!) Is there actually a correct spelling convention? -MalkavianX 04:13, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

The termagant species is spelled termagant, despite it being a Gaunt. Don't know why, but in my codex, every mention is spelled termagant. ALl other species in the Gaunt genus end in gaunt, not gant. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.204.111.219 (talk) 21:56, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

I don't think it really matters, since most people pronounce it as "Termagaunt" anyway. Groundlord (talk) 17:49, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

I think this is a legacy issue - if memory serves, in older versions (2nd edition) termagants and hormagaunts were described more like different genuses and later on they were 'merged', however the differences in spelling were stuck to due to familiarity. StormySan (talk) 23:48, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

Merge from Tyrant Guard

The Tyrant Guard article seems to be a fork from this one that contains very little in the way of real world perspective or info. Pairadox 02:05, 9 September 2007 (UTC)

I have to agree on this point, it ought to be folded into the main article. Makingupthenumbers (talk) 23:09, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

Me too. (sov) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sovfalcon (talk • contribs) 06:59, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

I don't really think any of the units in any article deserve their own article. Colonel Marksman (talk) 04:41, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

Ymgarl Stealers

Does anyone here think something should be included in the Other Hive Fleets part about the Ymgarl genestealers? Since this would indicate other previous Tyranid encounters in the Milky Way. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.250.237.134 (talk) 11:07, 26 October 2007 (UTC) It certainly gives them a nice early date of contact. It seems a fairly minor point though and not relevant or interesting enough to the main body to be included in my opinion. ChonkE (talk) 11:04, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

Semi-synaptic. What is it?

Im confuzzled plz help. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.118.31.146 (talk) 17:20, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

All I know is that Zoanthropes are semi-synaptic, so I think it means that they don't use the Instinctive Behavior rule if there isn't Synapse creature near them. KyuubiSeal (talk) 17:27, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

I think it means some of the species are synaptic, making the species as a whole, semi-synaptic. I think... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.204.111.219 (talk) 21:51, 6 January 2008 (UTC) lol, check your codex :) remember your biomorphs and remember their nickname. "Brain". ChonkE (talk) 11:00, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

Semi-synaptic doesn't even exist in the game rules. Tyranids that aren't Synapse Creatures use the Instinctive Behaviour rules if they are outside Synapse range, unless they have a rule that lets them act normally (currently, only Genestealers and Biovores have this ability). "Semi-synaptic" is probably only a reference to the extent of a Tyranid's connection to the Hive Mind; "Synaptic" 'Nids are ones who have very strong connections (like the Hive Tyrant), while "Semi-Synaptic" are the ones that have a moderate connection (like the Zoanthrope; it's not extremely powerful, but strong enough to manipulate lesser 'Nids). For game purposes, the influence that a Synapse Creature has over lesser Tyranids is the same whether it's a Zoanthrope, a Warrior, a Broodlord, or a Hive Tyrant. Groundlord (talk) 05:35, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

Wraith Fleet?

In the section talking about "other hive fleets" there is a paragraph about so-called Hive Fleet Wraith. No sources are cited for this, I personally have heard nothing of it, and to me, it sounds like someone just put in their own hive fleet background just so it could be in the Tyranid page. Im deleting it. If you want it on the page, give me sources. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.100.136.156 (talk) 00:47, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

There are references elsewhere online to it being menioned in White Dwarf #98, however not owning an issue or having the ISBN I can't provide a conclusive citation. StormySan (talk) 00:20, 24 January 2009 (UTC)

I've managed to talk to someone who has a copy of this issue and can find no reference to any hive fleets at all. If noone objects then I'll remove the reference as it would appear to be a player-created fleet. StormySan (talk) 00:40, 24 January 2009 (UTC)

Left this over a week and no objections, section removed.StormySan (talk) 12:22, 2 February 2009 (UTC)

Original concept

I heard that the original concept and design was that of mutated humanoid aliens with carapace and biological blades, and that the.. er, Zerg-like design was introduced only recently (that is not like few years, but like... not very long). Is it true? If it is, can anyone tell me when this.. er, Zerg-like design came into picture?

Starshade17 (talk) 15:38, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

Naturally your question is rather relevant to my previous edit of the article that gave the release years for Alien, the Tyranids, and the Zerg. Although I can't really prove it (though I'm sure someone can), the info' on the internet seems to support the notion that tyranids were very much alike the way they are today early on. Consider the following links:

A seller's page featuring vintage box art and sprues. In particular observe the "Zerg-like" Tyranid in the background lower left quadrant of the "Epic: Hive War" box art.

[[1]] "Hive War (1995), which featured the Tyranid"

What this all suggests to me is the Tyranids where Tyranids at least as early as 1995, which was three years before the release of Starcraft. 76.111.80.228 (talk) 02:56, 4 September 2008 (UTC)

Thank you for the links. They do look slightly humanoid, and considering the bipedal aspect, I think it's safe to assume that the Tyranids "evolved" form the original designs too. Oh, in case you mistake my meaning, I'm not saying that the design of Tyranids is a copycat of Zerg. But it seems possible that the Tyranids and the Zerg affected each other mutually. I know this might outrage the Warhammer fans, but I'm only saying that it's possible.

Thanks for the links again.

Starshade17 (talk) 12:04, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

If one compares the 2nd edition Tyranid models to 3rd edition releases (following Starcraft, in 2001), it is impossible not to notice that the Zerg are closer to the latter releases. Whatever the truth of the matter, it is easy to see that the Tyranids have been influenced by the Zerg since Starcraft's release. This being a matter of great contention among fans, I will not be attempting any edits regarding it, apart from keeping the matter open if necessary. NotARusski (talk) 02:43, 7 January 2009 (UTC)

So the Tyranid at the bottom left of the background of this image looks nothing like the Zerg to you? Keep in mind this rulebook predates Starcraft by a number of years. 76.111.80.228 (talk) 01:37, 12 January 2009 (UTC)

Actually it does not look very much like the Zerg. The part "The Tyranids, in turn, inspired the Zerg species of Starcraft" Should be removed or changed, because it is definitely not a fact. It's possible, but unless someone has any real proof of it should removed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.226.46.40 (talk) 19:39, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

I'm sorry. But, I didn't write that it looked "very much" like the Zerg, I asked doesn't it look like the Zerg at all? My point being that, contrary to what Starshade wrote the Tyranids were more than merely "mutated humanoid aliens". Rather they've been looking all insect-y with spines, and, most importantly of all, long saber-like talon mandible ... things. (I'd call them horns, but I don't think horns are supposed to articulate. I don't like calling them "mandibles" either because mandibles are supposed to be a part of mouth hardware.)

I've just been a little put out by some of the stuff folks have been writing here. Starshade wrote what he wrote. And, I make a link to a page that includes a link to (what I wrote was "box art" but which instead was) a rulebook cover that clearly shows a Carnifex (an older style Carnifex, but still a Carnifex), and he either doesn't follow the link as far as I suggested, or completely ignores the Carnifex in favor of the looming old style Hive Tyrant in the foreground, writing that "They do look slightly humanoid".

Then NotARusski writes what he wrote. And, I'm like, well you know what? here NotARusski, check this link, in particular this and this. Those are your Second Edition Tyranids that you wrote have changed so much.

Really I've been getting upset because I ended up feeling like people haven't actually paid what I wrote any mind.

I suppose I should at least ask NotARusski, what specific examples are you thinking of the Zerg influencing Tyranid development? I would like to know.

And, I don't know where it was written that, "The Tyranids, in turn, inspired the Zerg species of Starcraft". Personally, I believe that the odds are likely that it's true. But, as you wrote there is nothing that validates that notion.

My only point has been that with the precedents, if one can be ripping off the other, the other can not have been ripping off the one. Starshade suggested that perhaps they're mutually ripping each other off. As a writer I can not agree with that. The two are similar enough that the conception of one could very well have been based on the other. But my impression is that they are different enough that having the concept the creative talents of the unoriginal concept at least took off and ran with what they had. I mean once you have a conceptual idea the rest is so much easier. 76.111.80.228 (talk) 04:05, 14 January 2009 (UTC)

My deepest apologies. I didn't notice the sentence after the link. Now that I see this.. Yes, that does look like what the Zergling looks like now. Is that the Carnifex in the early ages?

In the four months that passed after my edition, by the way, I was enlightened about this topic and have found enough to see that the Tyranids are indeed original concepts (except for the genetic engineering part). I understand your claim and frustration. Thank you for your comment, and again, apologies for my behavior. :Starshade17 (talk) 09:34, 14 January 2009 (UTC)

At what point did I say that the early Tyranids look nothing like the Zerg? Please point it out to me, as I cannot find it. I said that the Zerg more closely resemble the Tyranids released after Starcraft than the ones released before. And your links, which I have looked at, do nothing to dispute this whatsoever, as we are speaking of comparisons of comparisons. Observe here and here, on the same site you linked. I am unable to find examples of earlier Tyranids so close in appearance to the Zerg, your examples included. NotARusski (talk) 23:16, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

Chovin's Edit

Chovin deleted the following text "(though the Zerg is presumably based upon the Tyranids, as Tyranids can be traced back as early as 1987, while the game Starcraft, which also includes elements of design comparable in the Terran races of both game universes, was not released until 1998; likewise although the movie Alien from 1979 certainly pre-dated the Tyranids, and provided inspiration for the Tyranids, the Tyranid concept is, arguably, a degree more developed as a race rather than just a scourge)" with the note "Only speculation". It annoys me slightly that he made no effort to discuss this edit on the discussion page. But, it's not like it isn't true, which is exactly why I sought to mitigate the speculation with words like "presumably" and "arguably", and also the use of parentheses, so people would not mistake the words as gospel.

I'd like to point out that my edit was from "though the Zerg was likely based upon the Tyranids" which was even more presumptive while putting on airs of uninformed certainty. Likewise I made sure to add the dates of release so the speculation was at least supportable in fact. For copyright law purposes those would be the essential details (if a copyright judge would have to rule one way or another which I don't think they would).

This is relevant to Tyranid public interest because it is a question on many people's minds. (Indeed it was on mine, which was what led me to look up the release dates in the first place.) There are many who heard of the Zerg long before they heard of Tyranids (if even they have yet heard of Tyranids). Many of these people just assume the Tyranids are a rip off of the Zerg, which even if the Zerg are not a rip off of the Tyranids the reverse certainly can not be true. 76.111.80.228 (talk) 04:07, 27 September 2008 (UTC)

I would like to point out that the Tyranids have evolved over time and took a very large step after the release of the Zerg. While it's possible the Zerg took ideas from the Tyranids it's certainly not impossible that the Tyranids evolved the way they did, creatively, because of the influence of the Zerg's popularity. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.143.141.100 (talk) 09:03, 15 January 2009 (UTC)

Starship Troopers' Bugs

The previous chapter I added to the discussion page made me also think as long as we're drawing comparisons the Bugs of Robert A. Heinlein's Starship Troopers (1959) certainly pre-dated the Tyranids by three decades. Although I don't believe the Arachnids (Bug (Starship Troopers)) of the book resemble the ones in the movie altogether very much. 76.111.80.228 (talk) 04:07, 27 September 2008 (UTC)

Quite probable. (Please forgive and correct me if I am wrong.) Given its seniority, it wouldn't be strange to guess that the Tyranids were inspired by the Arachnids first. The Arachnids utilize no electronic technology and form a superorganism, and depend on quantity rather than quality, but do have some mega-warriors at their disposal. The exact description of Tyranids as well. I'd agree that the Tyranids were originally inspired by the Arachnids. (And both have names that end with -nids.) :Starshade17 (talk) 09:08, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

Ah but as I mentioned the "Bugs" in the book are very different from the bugs in the movie, which does not pre-date the Tyranids. The bugs in the book have starships and beam weapons from what little is written of them. The fighting that goes on in Heinleins book is, I understand, all or mostly against the "Bugs"' allies the "Skinnies". So we really don't know that much about them. My impression is that Heinlein created them as a truly alien race as a nemesis of the future human race, and that beyond that they were incidental to the story.

It is, to my understanding, still very possible the Tyranids are a largely original concept, which the Arachnids of the movie were based upon. 76.111.80.228 (talk) 22:51, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

The Tyranids of 1986-1995/1997 were actually much more alike to the Arachnids in the book. Starship Troopers was certainly more likely to have been influenced by the Xenomorph in the Alien franchise. Around the time of the creation of the Starship Troopers movie and of Starcraft for that matter, there had already been video games and movies based upon legions of insect-like life forms that have a hive mind controlling them...it was pop culture. And what I submit is that all of the franchises in question were influenced by popular culture at the time, and is why they all evolved in similar directions over that time. Far too much credit is given too the popularity of the Tyranids during the time frame we're referring to, I find it very hard to believe that a movie director and producer were playing WH40k and got the idea to change their movie, don't you? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.143.141.100 (talk) 09:11, 15 January 2009 (UTC)

Actually I would not say too much credit is given to the popularity of the Tyranids, largely because, to the dismay of the Tyranids' enthusiastic fans, the Tyranids as well as the rest of the W40k universe, was not; and is still not that popular. The upcoming Dawn of War II video game will probably popularise the Tyranids far more than all of the past couple decades. Which in its way is kind of a shame, because, once again, I'm sure rabid video (but not tabletop) gamers, who are unaware that the Dawn of War series is just one product of the W40k franchise, will just assume that the Tyranids are a ripoff of the Zerg. (And do know this is not GamesWorkshop's first foray into computer gaming, for example there's the excellent Final Liberation.)

And, I would like to know what other examples of insect-like hive-minded aliens you can think of. It would be interesting to go into the evolution of the concept in the popular consciousness, as a world-devouring boogeyman. 76.111.80.228 (talk) 22:59, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

As far as I'm aware, GW had a license deal with Blizzard who was making a 40k RTS. The zerg is basically the Tyranids with a different name due to GW pulling the plug, and Blizzard having a half finished game. The marines are space marines and the zerg is tyranids. Where they got the Protoss from I'm unsure about. There is a few sources on this around. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.154.84.2 (talk) 12:43, 6 April 2009 (UTC)

Needs radical edits

1. Our goal is not to reproduce the entire library of Tyranid sourcebooks in this page. I'd argue we don't need to list every unit type and hive fleet ever mentioned anywhere.
2. There is a strong 'fanboy' tone in 80% of the article, where evident Tyranid players want to emphasise how terrifying and invulnerable their fictional soldiers are.

Look at the Space Marines (Warhammer 40,000) page. It is mostly restrained in tone, and doesn't list every Marine type in the books - that's a much better read. --Air (talk) 15:10, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

WP:GOCE

Page size for contest: File size: 115 kB Prose size (including all HTML code): 27 kB References (including all HTML code): 19 kB Prose size (text only): 21 kB (3492 words) "readable prose size" References (text only): 2229 B Images: 72 kB Buggie111 (talk) 01:18, 1 May 2010 (UTC)

Wrong Picture

Someone managed to link a picture of the late Pope instead of the Tyranids 4th Edition Codex. Unfortunately, I don't know how to change it. If someone can link back the good picture... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.225.216.246 (talk) 23:31, 1 May 2011 (UTC)

Reference books

It seems that the ISBN for several of the referances are wrong, and even contradictory. IE both the 2nd and 3rd edition codexes have the ISBN of the 4th edition codex. Wyvirn91 (talk) 23:42, 5 September 2012 (UTC)

Inspiration?

I have heard they also drew on the Zerg from Starcraft, not just xenomorphs. However I can't find any good references for that.--Ollyoxenfree (talk) 21:31, 22 September 2012 (UTC)

If anything, it's the other way around.

Starcraft has been released in 1998, while Rogue Trader has been published since the 80's. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.98.199.50 (talk) 22:02, 30 April 2013 (UTC)

"Harridan"?

The Harridan disambiguation page had an entry coming to this article, but I can't find that word/name mentioned in here. Is something missing? I've removed the entry for now, but that makes it a {{Only-two-dabs}} page, subject to deletion.  — SMcCandlish ☺ ☏ ¢ ≽^ʌⱷ҅_ᴥⱷ^ʌ≼  05:36, 20 June 2015 (UTC)

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 4 external links on Tyranids. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20060505085830/http://us.games-workshop.com/games/40k/tyranids/articles/genesis.htm to http://us.games-workshop.com/games/40k/tyranids/articles/genesis.htm
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070530125424/http://uk.games-workshop.com/storefront/store.uk to http://uk.games-workshop.com/storefront/store.uk
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070530125424/http://uk.games-workshop.com/storefront/store.uk to http://uk.games-workshop.com/storefront/store.uk
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20060505085830/http://us.games-workshop.com/games/40k/tyranids/articles/genesis.htm to http://us.games-workshop.com/games/40k/tyranids/articles/genesis.htm

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

• If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
• If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 14:54, 6 December 2017 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

• WH40K Tyranid Carnifex.jpg

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 16:23, 19 March 2020 (UTC)

Template appears misplaced

Hi @Zxcvbnm:, you have placed an "all plot" template on this page. As the only section that seems relevant is "Fictional in-game history" and that is relatively small and seems very distant from what WP:PLOT refers to. As such I wonder if this template was placed in mistake or confusion and should be removed. You may have concerns that are better addressed by a {{in-universe}} template but even that seems a stretch. I completely agree with the primary sources template, however. Thank-you, ~ El D. (talk to me) 16:18, 3 December 2020 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion:

• Genestealer-trainrex86.jpg

You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. —Community Tech bot (talk) 20:23, 7 October 2021 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

• Tyranid Warrior ric k.jpg

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 19:07, 16 November 2022 (UTC)