Talk:Tzipi Hotovely

Materials

Sources relevant to the article that haven't been used yet:

• http://glz.co.il/1064-21960-he/Galatz.aspx

Name

Haaretz spells her name "Hotobeli"[1]. Any thoughts? -- Nudve (talk) 18:39, 25 February 2009 (UTC) The "y" on the end makes it look Magyar. Georgians would have an "i". — Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.129.81.145 (talk) 14:57, 10 November 2021 (UTC)

Being Youngest MK

I'm pretty sure that since the previous elections on January 2013 she no longer is the youngest MK. MK Stav Shaffir, age 27, of Labor party, is younger. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.86.106.5 (talk) 18:29, 29 April 2013 (UTC)

Add section "Legislation and initiatives"

Tzipi Hotovely is a driving force[2] behind the initiative which would require to install a GPS system (black box) in every car and charge tax depending on the distance and location. Larytet (talk) 11:22, 27 August 2013 (UTC)

Thank you for the source. Do you have additional sources for initiatives by Hotovely? I would like to add this into the article but it would be nice to write up something comprehensive about her legislative work. —Ynhockey ^(Talk) 11:15, 9 September 2013 (UTC)

Ambassador to the United Kingdom Suggestion

Not too sure if I can edit this article or if it would fall within the "reasonably construed" part of ARBPIA. So erring on the side of caution I'll make my edit request here. I'd like to add info around the criticism of her appointment as UK Ambassador.

Commenting in the Jewish Chronicle, Melanie Phillips stated that Hotovely "would be laden with divisive political baggage" due to her "ultra right-wing" views and noted that her previous appearance on Today (BBC Radio 4) was a "trainwreck". Writing in the Times of Israel Jewish News, journalist Jenni Frazer opined that Hotovely is "manifestly unsuitable" for the appointment. Frazer also noted the concerns of several prominent members of the Jewish community in her article in the Jewish Chronicle, including Laura Janner-Klausner and Jeremy Beecham, Baron Beecham, who stated that “The appointment of an ultra-right wing ambassador, while typical of the present government of Israel, will do nothing to win friends in the UK — or indeed any other reasonable country”. --DSQ (talk) 11:21, 20 June 2020 (UTC)

References

Edit request

Although the article isn't actually protected, I am assuming that it could likely fall within the "reasonably construed" part of ARBPIA. I don't yet have 500 edits and I don't hold out much hope of getting a response on the talk page , as the article doesn't currently get many page views. So I figured this was the best way forward. Please could you consider adding the following in relation to her appointment as Ambassador to the UK?

Commenting in The Jewish Chronicle, Melanie Phillips stated that Hotovely "would be laden with divisive political baggage" due to her "ultra right-wing" views and noted that her previous appearance on Today (BBC Radio 4) was a "trainwreck". Writing in the Times of Israel Jewish News, journalist Jenni Frazer opined that Hotovely is "manifestly unsuitable" for the appointment. Frazer also noted the concerns of several prominent members of the Jewish community in her article in the Jewish Chronicle, including Laura Janner-Klausner and Jeremy Beecham, Baron Beecham, who stated, "The appointment of an ultra-right wing ambassador, while typical of the present government of Israel, will do nothing to win friends in the UK – or indeed any other reasonable country."

Thank you. --DSQ (talk) 14:36, 22 June 2020 (UTC)

To editor DSQ:  done. There is a definite curve to learning how to edit Wikipedia, and you are wise to be careful esp. with bio-type articles. We'll see if this flies... I included a subsection for "Criticism" with your added sourced info. Best to you! (and feel free to improve it as you deem appropriate.) P.I. Ellsworth  ed. ^put'r there 18:06, 22 June 2020 (UTC)

P.I. Ellsworth Thank you for making the edit for me, I appreciate it! I'd like to add more, but I'll come back when I reach 500 edits . Don't want to get into trouble. If it doesn't fly I've got more sources. Thanks again. --DSQ (talk) 20:04, 22 June 2020 (UTC)

Pleasure! Paine  

An ambassador has to represent the government policy - not his own policy. So it realy doesn't matter what her personal opinions are. These jounalists say. so they say. They have to say SOMETHING - that's what they're paid for. Since when journalists' opinion to be taken into account? If a major british politician would say these words, i'd call it a relevant criticism. Journalists'? completely no. I'd even call it gossip. Yanivshn (talk) 17:28, 23 June 2020 (UTC)

References

In the interests of balance

Further to my edit request above re: the appointment of Hotovely as UK Ambassador. I've found another source which should probably be included as it contains a more positive reaction to her appointment. See last para - comments from Marie van der Zyl. --DSQ (talk) 08:29, 23 June 2020 (UTC)

Please see what i said in the thread above ("Edit request"). In short, i think journalists' opinions are completely not relevant. Of course if you bring their opposing opinions, it's not fair not to bring the supporting ones. I just think NONE of the Jounalists' opinion- opposing or supporting - matters at all. Yanivshn (talk) 17:35, 23 June 2020 (UTC)

I understand the points you are making. But, Janner-Klausner is a Rabbi, Baron Beecham is a politician, van der Zyl is the President of The Board of Deputies and Na’amod are a campaign group. Yes, Phillips and Frazer are journalists, but like the above mentioned, they are also members of the UK Jewish community, so I would've thought that their thoughts were relevant. You could always add van der Zyl's statement and change the sub-heading to specify that the comments relate to her appointment as UK Ambassador? I'm not touching the article personally, as I haven't been around long enough to edit articles that could be covered by ARBPIA. --DSQ (talk) 19:24, 23 June 2020 (UTC)

You could say it all in one sentence, that there are voices among the British Jewish community that are opposing the nomination. With all the respect, their names are not important, since they are unkown figures to the general public, as well as to the Jewish community outside the UK. Baron Beecham is from the Labor party, so it's no surprise he's opposing. Yanivshn (talk) 19:57, 23 June 2020 (UTC)

Then why don't you make a clear alternative suggestion then? It's unarguably a controversial appointment within the British Jewish Community and the sources reflect that, but maybe you can find a better way of putting it into words. Re: Baron Beecham, his comments have been quoted in 2 reliable sources and I don't think his political affiliation is at all relevant to the discussion. --DSQ (talk) 20:44, 23 June 2020 (UTC)

References

not unlike Kristallnacht

I think this phrase should be removed. Even the Jewish Chronicle didn't say "The protests...were not unlike Kristallnacht". They just kept comparing the date, to try and imply a connection without saying it. Nothing was broken, no-one was attacked, no arrests were made.

I'm not even sure about "protests were widely dismissed as anti-Semitic". Did any of the 'respected' media actually say that? The Guardian referred to Priti Patel using the word. The BBC didn't use it. Clearly the protest was against Tzipi Hotovely and the attitudes she holds.--Andromedean (talk) 08:13, 19 November 2021 (UTC)

British Jewish institutions went, in some cases, further, with the Jewish Chronicle comparing the incident to Kristallnacht, when thousands of Jews were sent to concentration camps by Nazi paramilitaries, their property destroyed and synagogues desecrated.

The source for that is Tommer Spence, an elected representative of Jewish students on the Board of Deputies, the British Jewish community’s principal representative body. It is pointless challenging this. Nishidani (talk) 08:36, 19 November 2021 (UTC)

The full phrase is: "The protests were widely dismissed as anti-Semitic and not unlike Kristallnacht" The source he uses is the Jewish Chronicle, but even they don't say this, they only compared the DATE.

Also to be widely dismissed as anti-Semitic and not unlike Kristallnacht we might expect Left wing Jewish publications to say it, and non-Jewish publications to say it. Take this independent Israeli publication and this British publication.--Andromedean (talk) 17:01, 19 November 2021 (UTC)

I propose changing it to "the protests were criticised by senior members of the Government and some leading Labour politicians. Some publications also pointed out the meeting was held on the eve of the anniversary of Kristalnacht." --Andromedean (talk) 08:15, 20 November 2021 (UTC)

Tommer Spence is the source, an excellent one. He took the allusive language to Kristalnacht in the JC that way, as I, checking, did, and I think numerous other readers would. Your point seems more a defense of the JW's ridiculous hyperbolic Nazi-era hysteria-stirring in response to a piddling protest outside the LSE. Nishidani (talk) 11:06, 20 November 2021 (UTC).

I'm sure that interpreting the interpretation of one journalist's view on an article in the Jewish Chronicle in this way is problematic. If you still disagree with the change, perhaps it might be better to remove the reference to Kristallnacht completely, as the JC is hardly a mainstream view, and is a biased source for issues relating to this subject.--Andromedean (talk) 08:54, 23 November 2021 (UTC)

See WP:IDONTLIKETHAT. I make no interpretation of Tommer's 'interpretation'. Numerous articles cite the JC on British politics. Mainstream views are not all that is represented: and this is a major vehicle for British Jewish opinion. Nishidani (talk) 10:23, 23 November 2021 (UTC)

Far right?

Is calling or categorising any Likud politician "far right" justified? At the very least we should have a lot of other evidence for this assertion that a representative of one of the two main parties is far right. Even the criticisms of her are as "ultra right wing" which seems specifically worded to avoid the far right label. JASpencer (talk) 21:26, 23 November 2023 (UTC)

I've looked at the three proffered sources for being "far-right"

• NYT - Can't see full article. Could we have the quote to give context?
• The National - The (unsympathetic) article itself doesn't say she's "far-right" but does quote Owen Jones who uses this basically as a slur.
• Al Jazeera. I don't mind using Al Jazeera as a reliable source per se, but not as to whether an Israeli politician is far-right.

Also it's a substantial claim in the lead that's not referenced in the main body of the text.

So I've replaced the "far-right" description in the lead with "ultra-right" (complete with quotation marks) as this is backed in the main article and I've removed the far-right politicians category.

JASpencer (talk) 21:39, 23 November 2023 (UTC)

"Ultra right" Diplomat

Is the term relevant for the article given the fact that her political views are described in another part of the article. BPolitics (talk) 23:06, 5 December 2023 (UTC)