Talk:U.S. Route 85B (Williams County, North Dakota)

This is not "U.S. 85 Business"

This is not a Business loop for U.S. 85. It doesn't even meet back up with U.S. 85 at its southern terminus. The only case of a Business route not being a full loop, is when the parent highway is re-routed. U.S 85 was re-routed, but that was before U.S. 85B was even created. Moreover, it would make absolutely no sense for this to be a business loop, considering it bypasses Williston. This is not "U.S. 85 Bypass" either. If it was a bypass or business loop, it would be signed as such, but it is not. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Howpper (talk • contribs) 06:43, 31 December 2016 (UTC (UTC)

I just checked the application NDDOT made to AASHTO in 2015 for the relocation of US 85 around Williston. (It's linked from WP:USRD/AASHTO.) That application makes no mention of the creation of a US 85B as a divided route, nor any disposition of the former routing in town. In looking at Google Maps, they have it labeled as a business route.

Normally, divided routes are those highways like US 31E and US 31W or US 70N and US 70S where the mainline for US 31 or US 70 splits into two separate branches. A US Highway suffixed with a B is a business route, just as one suffixed with an A is an alternate route. Additionally, business routes need not be full loops; there are many examples of business spurs, like U.S. Route 2 Business (Ironwood, Michigan) or U.S. Route 31 Business (Hart, Michigan) where the business route only connects to the parent on one end. As such, I've moved this back to a title that fits with the WP:USSH naming convention. Imzadi 1979 → 07:23, 31 December 2016 (UTC)

Imzadi1979, the only reason it is marked as "US 85 Business" on Google Maps, is because it originally wasn't even on the map, and I tried to get them to add it, and they just added than name instead.

I did some research, and we are both sort of wrong. "US 85B" is not a business route, nor is it a divided highway. It is an exception to the naming rule. The city of Williams County is trying to build a "Northeast Truck Reliever Route", because the Williston area is experiencing exponential truck traffic growth. As a result of the recent slow in the oil boom and lower money-flow, the project has been put on hold. As a result, Williams County and the Federal Highway Administration agreed to give parts of County Route 6, and County Route 9 the temporary designation "US 85B". I found this information in the 2016 Williston Regional Transportation Plan. "file:///C:/Users/annette/Desktop/Brendon/092216WillistonWilliamsTransportationPlan.pdf" They mention "US 85B" on page 42. It says it is meant to function as a bypass of Williston. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Howpper (talk • contribs) 09:25, 31 December 2016 (UTC)

According to AASHTO, US 85 bypasses the city of Williston to the north and west, and the former route of US 85 in town and the mainline north of town is marked on maps as either US 85B or Bus. US 85. BTW, that link you posted here is on a local hard drive and inaccessible to anyone else. Imzadi 1979 → 13:37, 31 December 2016 (UTC)

Also, FHWA really has no part in approving US Highway designations; those are approved through AASHTO on request from the appropriate member state department(s) of transportation. Once I found the document you're referencing, it does not say anywhere on page 24 that FHWA had any part in the designation. Barring any additional sources, we have to go with how the roadway is labeled on maps, which for now is "Bus. US 85" or "US 85B" at Google Maps or OpenStreetMap.

Also, please don't perform a copy/paste move of article content to replace the redirect. That separates the editing history of the text from the text itself and violates the CC-BY-SA 3.0 license or the GFDL under which all text entered into Wikipedia is licensed under. Imzadi 1979 → 14:09, 31 December 2016 (UTC)

Imzadi1979. Please read my source again. I made a typo, I meant to say it was on page 42. It does mention the purpose of "U.S. 85B". — Preceding unsigned comment added by Howpper (talk • contribs) 14:47, 31 December 31 2016 (UTC)

Also, here is one of the signs in Google street view: http://williamscty.maps.arcgis.com/apps/webappviewer/index.html?id=ba5c0b0bd9eb4490adf62a128fe1f061

And here is the Willams County GIS, which labels it as US 85B: http://williamscty.maps.arcgis.com/apps/webappviewer/index.html?id=ba5c0b0bd9eb4490adf62a128fe1f061 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Howpper (talk • contribs) 14:47, 31 December 2016 (UTC)

The "B" suffix is the standard in used in many states for a business route in place of the business plate above the parent highway's marker, just as an "A" suffix is used for an alternate route. Now, if this is really a sui generis situation, and I don't think so yet, then we could rename the article "U.S. Route 85B (Williston, North Dakota)", but we would not use any of the other titles you've proposed or used as they don't fit with WP:USSH, a naming convention ratified by the Arbitration Committee a decade or so ago.

Also, you appear to be quoting page 24 (as numbered on the pages themselves). We don't go by the PDF file's page numbering because not all readers or users will be referencing the digital copy; some may be consulting a printed copy. Imzadi 1979 → 15:49, 31 December 2016 (UTC)

This is a very unusual highway designation. I honestly am 100% sure it is not supposed to be a business spur. The only reason its marked as a business route on Google Maps, because they misunderstood my edit on Google Map Maker. Just look on google street view (or just satellite view), and you can see there are no businesses along the route, and it is across the river from the city. I think the article should be moved to the page name you suggested. The current article is very misleading, because the "U.S. Route 85 Business", was the exact same route as the current "U.S. Route 2 Business".Howpper (talk) 16:06, 31 December 2016 (UTC)

Here is a link to one of the shields on GSV: [1]. Charlotte Allison (Morriswa) (talk) 16:47, 31 December 2016 (UTC)

It appears to me that the correct title of this article should be "Northwest Truck Reliever Route" with disambiguation to Williston, N.D., as necessary. –Fredddie™ 17:19, 31 December 2016 (UTC)