Talk:Ulysses S. Grant/GA4

Latest comment: 10 years ago by Quadell in topic GA Review

GA Review

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Reviewer: Quadell (talk · contribs) 20:08, 8 December 2013 (UTC)Reply
Nominator: Coemgenus

Greetings, Coemgenus. Grant is a fascinating character, and I'm glad to learn more about him as I review this article. I am pleased to see that nearly every objection raised at Talk:Ulysses S. Grant/GA3 is either resolved or is now moot. I believe the organization of this article is appropriate, and at first blush I do not see any missing aspects that should be covered, nor any areas where the article goes into unnecessary detail. The lead effectively summarizes the main points of the article, which is a challenging thing to do for an article of this length. I have noticed a few places where the prose could be improved, and have begun to copy-edit the article. If you disagree with any of my edits, please feel free to revert and discuss.

Resolved issues
  • Can I assume you will eventually want to nominate this article for FA status? If so, here are some opportunities for improvement that are not necessary for GA status, but should probably be fixed eventually.
    • American Civil War and Ku Klux Klan are each linked twice in the lead, and Panic of 1873 is linked thrice. There are instances of overlinking throughout the article. The User:Ucucha/duplinks script can help you find these.
    • This article uses the serial comma in some places (e.g. "generals William Tecumseh Sherman, Philip Sheridan, and George Henry Thomas"), but omits it in others (e.g. "based on black voters, Northern newcomers ('Carpetbaggers') and native white supporters ('Scalawags')"). It's fine to either use or omit the serial comma, so long as it's consistent within the article. Which would you prefer?
    • Per MOS:COMMA, commas are needed after parenthetics when they do not end a sentence. For instance, consider "Hiram Ulysses Grant was born in Point Pleasant, Ohio on April 27, 1822 to Jesse Root Grant...". "Ohio" is acting as a parenthetic, specifying which Point Pleasant you mean, and 1822 is also acting a parenthetic, describing which April 27 you mean. As such, commas are needed after both, which I fixed in this edit. This should be done throughout the article, to conform to the intricacies of our manual of style. Quadell (talk) 22:01, 8 December 2013 (UTC)Reply
  • Clarity: When the lead refers to "native white supporters ('Scalawags')", I know that you mean supporters of Republicans who are white and native to the south, but it sounds like you could mean native supporters of whites, or supporters of native whites. Would "other southern supporters of Republicans ('Scalawags')" work? If not, some other wording will be needed.
  Fixed Added "Southern" Cmguy777 (talk) 22:42, 8 December 2013 (UTC)Reply
  • Undue weight: As described in the last paragraph of "Military career, 1843–1854", Grant drank to excess, and was asked to resign, which he did. But the text devotes nine sentences to this, dancing around the did-he-or-didn't-he-drink issue as if it were one of the most important aspects of his career. Instead, the facts should be summarized fairly and a bit more briefly.
  • Captions: I have fixed several minor problems with image captions, but the caption for File:Whiskeyring.jpg has some problems that I don't know how to fix. First, I don't see the words "Let know guilty man escape" in the cartoon. Direct quotes need a cite. And I'm not sure what the quote is doing logically or grammatically in the sentence at all. Is it needed? I would change the caption to "Grant authorized Bristow to shut down and prosecute the Whiskey Ring."
  Fixed Cmguy777 (talk) 16:35, 9 December 2013 (UTC)Reply
Great. I removed the period—captions should only end in periods (full stops) when the caption is a complete sentence. Quadell (talk) 21:00, 9 December 2013 (UTC)Reply
  • Spelling: Sometimes the text spells John C. Fremont with an acute e, "Frémont", and sometimes just as "Fremont". Either is fine, but the article should be consistent.
  • Clarity: I don't understand what this means: "and 'promoted' Grant to the hollow position of second-in-command of all the armies of the west". The article doesn't understand why this position was hollow, or what that means. And why the quote marks around "promoted"? If it's a direct quote, it needs a citation, but I suspect they are scare quotes, which are inappropriate in an encyclopedia.
  • Clarity: "During the second attempt to capture Vicksburg, Grant made a series of unsuccessful and criticized movements along bayou and canal water routes." Were they criticized at the time, or only later? Criticized by whom?
  • Clarity: "For security purposes, a scapegoat engine preceded Grant's train on the return trip." What does this mean?
    • I deleted this, too. It's unnecessary detail. What was meant, I think, was that an engine preceded Grant's on the line in case someone had placed on the tracks what they would have called a torpedo or an "infernal device" (a land mine, basically). --Coemgenus (talk) 14:50, 10 December 2013 (UTC)Reply
  • Clarity: The article says "Grant was given charge of the southern Illinois, District of Cairo". I don't know much about the way districts were worded back then, but that comma looks spurious. Should it be "of the southern Illinois district of Cairo"? Or perhaps "of the District of Cairo in southern Illinois"?
  • Clarity: "With the exception of Grant's personal secretary, Orville E. Babcock, who indirectly controlled many cabinet departments and delayed investigations, the scandals were unrelated to each other." I'm not sure what this means. Is it saying tha Babcock was the only thread tying the multiple scandals together? If so, it should be reworded for clarity.
Reworded Cmguy777 (talk) 05:23, 11 December 2013 (UTC)Reply
McFeely (1974) page 133 stated that Babcock was possible person who linked the scandals together. Cmguy777 (talk) 05:58, 11 December 2013 (UTC)Reply
  • Recommendation: I think the section called "Grant & Ward" should instead be called "Business ventures" (or something similar), since only the second paragraph is actually about Grant & Ward.
  • Puffery: "Twain called the Memoirs a 'literary masterpiece', and others including Matthew Arnold and Edmund Wilson agreed; it may be the "single most important" and influential work of American non-fiction." I believe everything after the semicolon should be omitted. The "may be" part is unprovable speculation, and it's not clear who is doing the speculating. Calling it a literary masterpiece should really be enough.
  • Prose: "After private services in Mount McGregor and lying in state in the New York State Capitol at Albany, Grant's body was placed on a funeral train and traveled via West Point to New York City, where a quarter of a million people viewed it in the two days prior to the funeral." I'm not sure what "lying in state" is, and I'm pretty sure it doesn't match well with "private services". (The body was lying in state, but the boy wasn't "private services"—see what I mean?) In my opinion, the section on his funeral is detailed enough; consider simplifying to "After private services, Grant's body was..."
  • Prose/Trivia: The sentence about Ohio's vote for Statuary Hall inclusion uses the phrase "in a statewide vote" twice. But really, it isn't clear what was being voted on, and I'm not sure a second-place finish in an Ohio poll merits mention alongside being depicted on a $50 bill. Omit?
  • Balance: Similarly, it's an honor both for Grant and for MSU that the Grant library is in MSU. But does it deserve it's own 3-sentence paragraph, when the D.C. Grant Memorial and Grant's Tomb have to share a single sentence?
  • Cites: Grant's "My efforts in the future will be directed..." quote needs a specific cite. Cite 143 comes a sentence later, and lists two separate books. Which book does this quote come from?
Coemgenus. Hamlin Garland (1898), Ulysses S. Grant: His Life and Character, pages 425-426
  • Clarity: "Although Grant was upset over Canby's death, he ordered restraint from seeking revenge or exterminating the tribe, as Sherman wished." Does this mean Sherman wished that Grant would order restraint? Or that Sherman wished that Grant would exterminate the tribe?
  • Alleged: "then, in an apparently agreed-upon arrangement, he resigned due to 'sickness' and was appointed Minister to France." Those look like scare quotes. Also, why was it apparent that an arrangement was agreed-upon?
Reworded for clarity. The arrangement was to give an ailing Washburne clout upon being appointed Minister to France by Grant. Cmguy777 (talk) 20:24, 11 December 2013 (UTC)Reply
The reason for the careful wording is that most historians think the "ailing" part was fake. --Coemgenus (talk) 23:08, 11 December 2013 (UTC)Reply
I think the most recent wording has alleviated the problem. Quadell (talk) 23:20, 11 December 2013 (UTC)Reply
  • Prose: The "Third term attempt" section contains the following two problematic sentences: "Grant received 306 votes on the final ballot, his supporters staying committed to their man to the bitter end. Logan moved that the nomination be made unanimous, and it was, but those 306 Stalwarts were immortalized in Republican myth." First off, I don't think they stayed committed "to the bitter end" if the final nomination was unanimous. Second, "to the bitter end" is casual metaphor. Thirdly, I don't think this counts as "myth", and I don't think it's "immortalized" any more than any other encyclopedic fact, and I'm not convinced it's even important enough to mention. Would this work? "Grant received 306 votes on the final ballot, but was unable to achieve a majority. The nomination was made unanimous in a procedural motion" (or whatever is accurate).

I will continue to study and review this article over the next several days, and will add issues here as I find them. Quadell (talk) 20:56, 8 December 2013 (UTC)Reply

Quadell, thanks for undertaking this review. Please, by all means copyedit. This thing is so big, we could use all the help we can get! I'll be pretty busy over the next week, but I'll be able to spare at least a few minutes a day, as will my co-editors. Thanks again, --Coemgenus (talk) 21:36, 8 December 2013 (UTC)Reply
GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)
  1. It is reasonably well written.
    a (prose, no copyvios, spelling and grammar):   b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists):  
    All issues have been resolved.
  2. It is factually accurate and verifiable.
    a (reference section):   b (citations to reliable sources):   c (OR):  
    Citations are excellent.
  3. It is broad in its coverage.
    a (major aspects):   b (focused):  
    All these issues have been resolved.
  4. It follows the neutral point of view policy.
    Fair representation without bias:  
  5. It is stable.
    No edit wars, etc.:  
  6. It is illustrated by images and other media, where possible and appropriate.
    a (images are tagged and non-free content have fair use rationales):   b (appropriate use with suitable captions):  
  7. Overall:
    Pass/Fail:  
    This is an excellent article, and I've had a great time reading and reviewing it. It passes all our GA criteria with flying colors, and I'm delighted to promote it. Quadell (talk) 14:03, 12 December 2013 (UTC)Reply