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GA Failing
editThis articleis quite a way from GA, while there are 14 refernces there are many more other things that still need references, the layout is pretty sloppy too, there is still more work to be done here
02:42, 23 September 2006 (UTC)
On the show being a "Quebec" show
editI have made various minor edits to the article which reinforces the show being from Canada rather than Quebec specifically. While there is, I think, definitely good reason to mention that the show is produced in Quebec in particular (as French-language television and film production in the province is largely distinct from what limited French-language production exists in other provinces), I think that it is more confusing than anything to call the show a "Quebec" show. My reasoning for this is as follows:
- To my knowledge such sub-national distinctions with regard to the origin of film and television productions do not exist on Wikipedia---with the exception of Hong Kong, which is a completely different case, I think.
- It is likely to be confusing to readers unfamiliar with the internal provincial divisions of Canada
- It is likely to be vaguely insulting to people like me who are not Quebec nationalists :)
- It exacerbates the already-worrisome inconsistency with the use of both "French Canadian" and "Quebecois" on Wikipedia. Since the use of "Quebecois" in English is fairly recent and still of somewhat dubious worth, I have used "French Canadian" since it is a term with sufficiently ancient roots, and is something all interested readers, no matter how cognizant or incognizant they are of political issues internal to Canada, should be aware of or otherwise be able to figure out.
As the article stands after my edit, there is no definite indication in the body of the article that the show is produced in Quebec itself. I may try and come up with a sentence or two that makes this more evident, but I think that clearing up the existing confusing wording was more important. JKing 21:03, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
- I'm not particularly fond of this edit. Yeah, the country of origin should be Canada, but Quebec, like Hong Kong, has its own TV and film production industry that differs completely from the rest of Canada. Movies and TV shows are produced, distributed and shown essentially in Quebec only (unless the network happens to be Radio-Canada for TV shows, then they can be seen nation-wide, and, in the case of movies, for some particularly succesful ones with international appeal, usually by way of France and the Cannes film festival). There is no "French Canadian" production to speak of outside of Quebec. I don't see how calling it a Quebec show makes it insulting to others, no matter what their political opinions may be.--Boffob 02:05, 30 April 2007 (UTC)
- I should note that "corner gas" is mentioned as taking place in saskatchewan, "trailer park boy" in Nova scotia so why would it become confusing to mention where it take place when it come to quebec ?
- I also don't get what could possibily be insulting about mentioning it.
- Finaly, if your argument for using "french canadian" is that its less confusing then Quebecois to outsiders, I like to mention that here in australia (where I live), saying that I'm french-canadian attracts comments like "so your parents are from France ?"
- I think the changes should be reverted
- Any rational reflection on this will conclude that the article "post-JKing-edits" is more biased, and even (to use JKings' phrasing) more 'insulting', than before. Let us examine the case.
- "To my knowledge such sub-national distinctions with regard to the origin of film and television productions do not exist on Wikipedia---with the exception of Hong Kong, which is a completely different case, I think."
- How is Hong Kong different exactly? What if it were Puerto Rican? Or Scottish? "Quebec" is not a sub-national distinction. Quebec is sociologically a "national society", with a "national culture", according to an overwhelming majority of its citizens (who hapen to have a say on the subject!), the Parliament of Quebec, the Parliament of Canada and numerous intellectuals around the world. A national culture is relevant and central to the way one should understand the society which contributed to the creation of a cultural creation and its impact on a part of humanity. And such distinctions are used, for people for example (see here).
- "To my knowledge such sub-national distinctions with regard to the origin of film and television productions do not exist on Wikipedia---with the exception of Hong Kong, which is a completely different case, I think."
- "It is likely to be confusing to readers unfamiliar with the internal provincial divisions of Canada"
- Even if this were true, LET'S EDUCATE THEM THEN!!! That's the beauty of Wikipedia! You go around the filter and get a truer view of the situation.
- It is likely to be vaguely insulting to people like me who are not Quebec nationalists :)
- Hum, and I wonder how placating "Canada" around as if Wikipedia were AdScam isn't insulting to people who are not... Canadian unitarists, unionists. In this case, what ralies most if not everyone? The words "Quebec" and "Quebecer", because most federalists are Quebecers in identity but few sovereigntists are Canadian, identity-wise. The simple fact is that I've practically never heard of a Quebecois signer or TV show being refered to as "ce chanteur canadien", "cette émission canadienne" (I'm sorry, quite neutrally, it just sounds fabricated). Show me the person who speaks like that and you know like me that we can tell what their politics are. But I can picture 98% of Quebec federalists speaking of "Quebec signers" and so on.
- "It is likely to be confusing to readers unfamiliar with the internal provincial divisions of Canada"
- "It exacerbates the already-worrisome inconsistency with the use of both "French Canadian" and "Quebecois" on Wikipedia."
- All right. If one has to go, it's "French Canadian": it has been abandoned by the overwhelming majority of Quebecers for dozens of reasons 40 years ago (Wikipedia MUST reflect the real and present state of facts!) and IS insulting to many Quebecers! Because of current use and the will of the populations in question, we use on Wikipedia (and elsewhere) "Inuit" instead of "Eskimo", "Black" or "African American" instead of "Negro", and I doubt "midget" would stand the test of editing for much long on any article. Why should Quebecers be the only people for which it isn't outrageous to be shoved a name describing their own selves, of all things, in their own mouth? --Liberlogos 16:15, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
- "It exacerbates the already-worrisome inconsistency with the use of both "French Canadian" and "Quebecois" on Wikipedia."
Bots
editbots|deny=SieBot,A4Bot,AlleborgoBot,Thijs!bot,YurikBot,Tsca.bot,Eskimbot,Phe-bot,PipepBot, WikiDreamer Bot, MystBot
On the article.... why?
Rich Farmbrough, 15:56 7 September 2008 (GMT).
- They keep making bad interwikis.--Boffob (talk) 16:34, 7 September 2008 (UTC)
- Looks to me like all the interwikis are bad. One is a disambig page the others are about localised versions. This is about the concept as well as the localised/adapted versions. Rich Farmbrough, 13:11 13 September 2008 (GMT).
- That's the nature of interwiki, there's no one-to-one correspondance for articles in different languages (when articles on a particular subject exist). No other language has the original concept plus adaptations. The French one has two articles, one for the original Québec version, one for the France one, and a disambig page for the two. The bots always end up picking the France one for some reason, even when all the articles outside of fr.wiki point to the same disambig page. So either we remove all interwikis in all languages (a dubious solution if you ask me) or we keep as is and point either to the disambig page for fr.wiki or the original Québec version.--Boffob (talk) 15:17, 13 September 2008 (UTC)
- I just noticed you removed all interwikis altogether here and the en.wiki links in all other articles (plus the fr.wiki in some). I undid this, as there are articles about the show, though they only cover one adaptation each, they all are covered in part by the English article. A link to the French article about the original version should most definitely be kept at the very least. Plus the bots would eventually undo your edits to other languages because one thing they do is see if interwikis match for all languages, and add the missing ones.--Boffob (talk) 15:29, 13 September 2008 (UTC)
- Nope that's not how it works AIUI. "Interwiki links should be reciprocal. If the scope is different, we shouldn't link the articles at all: interwiki links “are only put from an article to an article covering the same subject, not more and not less.” (Help:Interlanguage links)" User Silvonen. Rich Farmbrough, 00:29 14 September 2008 (GMT).
- The "not more, not less" quote appears in the link only with respect to bots, because bots can only do so much. In reality, there's tons of cases where the scope of articles differ somewhat but interwikis are still relevant (for example, English wiki has more contributors and more articles, thus articles on any given subject will tend to be longer in general than on other language wikis). It's not like there's no "Un gars, une fille" article at all on fr.wiki, it just happens that on fr.wiki, the info was put into two articles. fr:Un gars, une fille (version Québécoise) actually mentions all adaptations like the English article does, there's just less text.--Boffob (talk) 01:49, 14 September 2008 (UTC)
- No not with respect to bots. The point is the maintenance of interwikis is a bot based task, since there can be 10,000 interwiki links for one article if it's in 101 languages. See for example 2008 which looks like it's in 200ish wikipedias fixing over 40,000 interwikis. Regardless the removal of the en interwiki from the French and Quebecoise articles on fr; should fix this problem. Note that pl: have removed their interwikis completely. Rich Farmbrough, 13:51 15 September 2008 (GMT).
- fr:Un gars, une fille (version québécoise) has the exact same subject and scope as the English one, there's just less text and a slightly different title. Thus I'll be reinstating that link.--Boffob (talk) 16:59, 15 September 2008 (UTC)
- I also removed all interwikis from fr:Un gars, une fille (version française), as that one is exclusively about the France adaptation. In theory, bots shouldn't cause problems anymore. In theory...--Boffob (talk) 17:11, 15 September 2008 (UTC)
- Fingers crossed. I'll run round the other interwikis too. Rich Farmbrough, 17:49 15 September 2008 (GMT).
- No not with respect to bots. The point is the maintenance of interwikis is a bot based task, since there can be 10,000 interwiki links for one article if it's in 101 languages. See for example 2008 which looks like it's in 200ish wikipedias fixing over 40,000 interwikis. Regardless the removal of the en interwiki from the French and Quebecoise articles on fr; should fix this problem. Note that pl: have removed their interwikis completely. Rich Farmbrough, 13:51 15 September 2008 (GMT).
- The "not more, not less" quote appears in the link only with respect to bots, because bots can only do so much. In reality, there's tons of cases where the scope of articles differ somewhat but interwikis are still relevant (for example, English wiki has more contributors and more articles, thus articles on any given subject will tend to be longer in general than on other language wikis). It's not like there's no "Un gars, une fille" article at all on fr.wiki, it just happens that on fr.wiki, the info was put into two articles. fr:Un gars, une fille (version Québécoise) actually mentions all adaptations like the English article does, there's just less text.--Boffob (talk) 01:49, 14 September 2008 (UTC)
- Nope that's not how it works AIUI. "Interwiki links should be reciprocal. If the scope is different, we shouldn't link the articles at all: interwiki links “are only put from an article to an article covering the same subject, not more and not less.” (Help:Interlanguage links)" User Silvonen. Rich Farmbrough, 00:29 14 September 2008 (GMT).
- I just noticed you removed all interwikis altogether here and the en.wiki links in all other articles (plus the fr.wiki in some). I undid this, as there are articles about the show, though they only cover one adaptation each, they all are covered in part by the English article. A link to the French article about the original version should most definitely be kept at the very least. Plus the bots would eventually undo your edits to other languages because one thing they do is see if interwikis match for all languages, and add the missing ones.--Boffob (talk) 15:29, 13 September 2008 (UTC)
- That's the nature of interwiki, there's no one-to-one correspondance for articles in different languages (when articles on a particular subject exist). No other language has the original concept plus adaptations. The French one has two articles, one for the original Québec version, one for the France one, and a disambig page for the two. The bots always end up picking the France one for some reason, even when all the articles outside of fr.wiki point to the same disambig page. So either we remove all interwikis in all languages (a dubious solution if you ask me) or we keep as is and point either to the disambig page for fr.wiki or the original Québec version.--Boffob (talk) 15:17, 13 September 2008 (UTC)
- Looks to me like all the interwikis are bad. One is a disambig page the others are about localised versions. This is about the concept as well as the localised/adapted versions. Rich Farmbrough, 13:11 13 September 2008 (GMT).
Un Gars une fille is NOT from Quebec. It is FRENCH !! Jean du Jardin is not Canadian either, he is French !!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.108.228.78 (talk) 11:16, 17 April 2009 (UTC)