Talk:Unassisted triple play

Turn an unassisted triple?

Hey, I might be wrong but didn't Hosa Valentin (almost definitely spelled wrong but that's how its pronounced) turn an unassisted triple play? I got this information from my MLB Play Station video game. It could be completely inaccurate, but if it is not, I feel his name (spelled correctly) should be added to the list.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 72.139.139.241 (talk • contribs) 04:10, 28 August 2006.

The article on José Valentín has no mention of him ever having an unassisted triple play. I wonder if you mean John Valentin who is listed in the unassisted triple play chart in this article. — SpikeToronto (talk) 22:37, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

Rarity

"In baseball, an unassisted triple play occurs when a defensive player makes three putouts by himself in one continuous play. It is one of the rarest individual feats in baseball, even more so than a perfect game."

How much rarer is it than an inside-the-park home run? 4.242.147.205 22:09, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

Well I can tell you Willie Wilson himself hit 13 inside-the-park home runs, so it can't be that rare. Though it certainly is unusual nowadays. --Xyzzyva 03:03, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Yeah inside the park homers happen very frequently. But this has happened the same number of times as the "Natural Cycle" as of Today, May 12 2008. So I am not sure that "the rarist of individual feats" should really be in this article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Hsox05 (talk • contribs) 00:48, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

Quote: " ... [T]o baseball purists, there is a certain "neatness" to the fact that in the long history of the World Series, the only triple play was of the unassisted variety and the only no-hitter was Don Larsen's perfect game."

Working on figures from other Wikipedia articles, there have been 14 unassisted triple plays against 672 total tp, or 1 in 48. There have been 17 perfect games out of 256 total no-hitters, or 1 in 15. Thus if you're to have one of each, the chance of getting both of the rare items would be one in 720. (I confess that I first guessed the odds would have been a lot worse than these.) WHPratt (talk) 13:40, 27 April 2009 (UTC)

Error

Your article says John Valentin and George Burns are the only players ever to both record an unassisted triple play and hit for the cycle. However, your bio on the George Burns who played for Boston in the AL, who made an unassisted triple play, says he is not to be confused with the National League George Burns who played for the Giants. It was the NL George Burns who hit for the cycle. So is this statement an error? Please advise. Thanks.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Dahveed721 (talk • contribs) 07:56, 17 September 2006.

George was a pretty good comedian, too. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} 02:30, 3 October 2007 (UTC)

In the first paragraph, it says that there was only one unassisted triple play, but later it talks about several unassisted triple plays. This is inconsistent. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Kewlteacher (talk • contribs) 19:36, 24 November 2009 (UTC)

Table of Triple Plays

I really think that the table on this list was a great addition, however, the sort function on the top of the table sorts dates alphabetically (i.e. August comes before March rather than 1927 before 1968). Is there an easy way to adjust this? The sort on players names is also alphabetical by first name, but that is not a real problem as there are only 13 names on the list. Autkm 02:19, 3 October 2007 (UTC)

In a list this small, the sort function, while cute, is not only flawed, but unneeded. It would be better justified in the article on no-hitters. Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} 02:28, 3 October 2007 (UTC)

I have looked through the article several times, and can't find any indication of the reason for the blue shading and double-dagger superscript on Furcal, Tulowitzki, and Cabrera. Was there something previously to explain this? Should it be re-added, or should the markup in the table be removed? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.191.166.202 (talk) 20:37, 25 September 2012 (UTC)

It's in the Key at the top of the section: "Player is active". — I've added it as a footnote just under the table as well, which is where readers are likely to look for it. --Thnidu (talk) 22:34, 20 June 2014 (UTC)

4 HR vs. Unassisted Triple Play

The article says that 4 HR in a game is rarer than an unassisted triple play but 15 players are listed as having had 4 HR in a game vs. 14 players listed as having made an unassisted triple play (15 if the disputed unassisted triple play is counted). Blaylockjam10 (talk) 00:17, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

Ron Hansen

Quote: "Also of note is that Ron Hansen who completed his unassisted triple play in 1968 was in attendance as a scout to witness Asdrúbal Cabrera's, almost forty years later."

Hansen's unassistred triple play took place in a week when he also:

• Hit a grand slam homer (the ultimate offensive feat, though not very comparable to the ultimate defensive feat in terms of rarity);
• Struck out six times in a game; and

I just checked this. He had six consecutive strikeouts over two games (four for four in the TP game). In the next game, he walked, then hit a grand-slammer. After that game, he was traded back to the White Sox for Tim Cullen, effectively reversing a pre-season trade of the two. WHPratt (talk) 15:31, 26 August 2009 (UTC)

• Got traded back to the team that he started the season with, and traded for the same player.

Quite a week. WHPratt (talk) 14:20, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

So, Hansen's 1968 UTP was the first such in 41 years (after two on consecutive days). 41 more years later, we have seven more on the list, with three in consecutive years.

I guess that statistical analysis fails at such low-probability events. WHPratt (talk) 03:35, 24 August 2009 (UTC)

motion to protect page

People are spamming the page and adding unnecessary comments. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.249.81.90 (talk) 20:36, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

Agreed, also even though Glenn Wright's Unassisted Triple Play occured in the 9th Inning it dosen't necessarily mean that it ended the ballgame —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.98.25.37 (talk) 20:42, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

Not unless you read the report on the game and see that it did, no, it doesn't. What a dweeb. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.210.170.84 (talk) 22:22, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

2nd unassisted triple play

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/08/23/unassisted-triple-play-ph_n_266645.html Lastdingo (talk) 00:53, 24 August 2009 (UTC)

Misuse of Definition

A recent addition to the page says ...
"Under the rules of baseball, if a hit ball is caught by a fielder then runners on base may not advance while the ball is in the air, and must return to their bases before attempting to advance after the catch is made. This results in a "force play" after the catch, meaning that a fielder can get a runner out by simply touching a base while holding the ball, ... "
I'm pretty sure that this is not a "force play" as that term is defined. Yes, the fielder need only touch the base, but that's not enough to make this a force play. The definition is important, because when the third out of an inning results from a force play, a run is not scored even if the runner touched home plate prior to the out being recorded. This does not apply when a fly ball is caught and another runner is put out for not tagging up. I note that observers often question that latter case, and we'll be compounding the confusion of we insist upon calling this type of out a "force."
I would humbly suggest that this section be rewritten to avoid any attempt to extend the definition. WHPratt (talk) 13:00, 1 June 2012 (UTC)

I'll have to look it up, but I suspect you're right. The fielder tagging the base falls into the realm of "failure to retouch", and is not a force play but an appeal play. Consider this scenario: men on second and third, 1 out. Batter flies out, deep. 2 outs. Runners both advance a base, i.e. the guy on third scores. However, on appeal, the runner from second is called out. 3 outs. So, does the run count? I suspect so, but I'm not totally sure, as this is kind of an unusual situation. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 13:26, 1 June 2012 (UTC)

Yep, you're right. MLB rule 2.00, "Definition of Terms",[1] under "Force Play" states explicitly a scenario similar to the one I posed... "Example: Not a force out. One out. Runner on first and third. Batter flies out. Two out. Runner on third tags up and scores. Runner on first tries to retouch before throw from fielder reaches first baseman, but does not get back in time and is out. Three outs. If, in umpire's judgment, the runner from third touched home before the ball was held at first base, the run counts." I recall when playing ball as a kid, the retouch rule was sometimes called a "force play", and that creates confusion. It's only a "force play" when the runner has to vacate the base due to the batter becoming a runner. In the case of retagging, the runner is "forced", i.e. "compelled" to return to the base. But it's not actually a "force play". ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 13:35, 1 June 2012 (UTC)

And this can become the "fourth out" scenario if both runners fail to tag up, and the defense also puts out the man at third on appeal, or else fails to do so.

Anyway, you can't be forced by a runner ahead of you, so this ain't no force play. WHPratt (talk) 16:23, 1 June 2012 (UTC)

Right. I'm just saying that it's sometimes called a "force play". But that usage is colloquial, and contradicts the actual rules. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 00:31, 2 June 2012 (UTC)

Unassisted triple play by Minor League centre fielder

According to an entry on the www.retrosheet website, Knoxville center fielder George Smiley of the Appalachian League made an unassisted triple play on the 26th of April, 1921.

Should the conditions for an unassisted triple play be edited to say that although extremely rare, it is possible for a center fielder to perform an unassisted triple play?

Asd36f (talk) 10:20, 13 June 2012 (UTC)

Appalachian League ≠ Major League Baseball. Unless this feat took place during an MLB game (regular or postseason), it should not be mentioned. —Bloom6132 (talk) 09:29, 24 July 2012 (UTC)

Confusion in the Lead

After reading this article yesterday, I think the "requirements" for an unassisted triple play in the lead need some clarification. The word "must" is used both to describe required preconditions (ie, no outs and at least two baserunners), as well as list the most likely scenario (hard hit line drive to an infielder). While practically speaking, that is by far the most likely way to turn the unassisted triple play, there isn't a requirement that there be a hard hit line drive caught by a middle infielder in order to be credited with an unassisted triple play.

I'm not quite sure how best to rewrite it, but it isn't very clear as it stands now. Dworjan (talk) 19:40, 28 July 2012 (UTC)

Stats Recording

Maybe I missed it in the article, but how would an unassisted triple play be recorded on the stats sheet? For example, if a shortstop go it would it be recorded as 6-6-6? 1.127.170.149 (talk) 05:40, 22 February 2014 (UTC)

It's three putouts for 6 (the ss) and no assists to anyone. WHPratt (talk) 15:04, 22 February 2014 (UTC)

So how would it look like on the sheet? Just 6? 121.215.149.79 (talk) 16:46, 2 March 2014 (UTC)
I don't know if scorekeeping is standardized. Here's my take on it:
I record a 6-4-3 double play by coding "64/FC" in the runner's inning-box (i.e., forceout 6-4), and "43/DP" in the batter's inning-box, and connect the two with a double-headed arrow. That keeps the putouts and assists straight and shows what ultimately happened to the runner as well as the batter.
For a line-drive triple play by the shortstop unassisted, I guess I'd put "L6/TP" in the batter's square, and "6U" (i.e., shortstop unassisted)in each runner's square, and use arrows to connect all three boxes. In the "NOTES" section I'd describe the play as it occurred. Others might do it differently, but you have to makle it clear that there were three putouts and no assists. WHPratt (talk) 01:33, 3 March 2014 (UTC)

Morandini update

The table said that Morandini jumped to catch the ball and landed on 2nd. No...he landed a good ten feet away and ran to second. It's on video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QuCGGOi7Ahk Biggleston (talk) 20:44, 6 April 2016 (UTC)

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one-player triple play

Have there ever been triple plays where one player makes all the outs but does so with assistance, i.e., he throws it to another player who throws it back to him for a run-down? 87.247.53.24 (talk) 08:37, 14 October 2018 (UTC)

Well, if you're feeling up to it, why not scan these lists

https://www.retrosheet.org/TriplePlays.htm
...and try to find the same number-plus-asterisk three times on a play, e.g., 6*-6*-4-5-1-6*. WHPratt (talk) 15:52, 14 October 2018 (UTC) Edit: Actually, I think it would be (more likely) something like 3*-3*-2-5-3*. With no outs and runners at first and third, firstbaseman grabs a liner and doubles a runner off first. Runner at third tags up and tries to score. On a rundown between third and home, firstbaseman backs up the catcher and winds up making the tag. WHPratt (talk) 16:02, 14 October 2018 (UTC)

Nate Lowe’s almost-UTP

Should this article mention Nathaniel Lowe’s almost-UTP in a game against Seattle on April 20, 2022?

I say this because, to my knowledge, this is the only play where a player could have performed a UTP, but did not. This fact would make Lowe’s almost-UTP even rarer. Sneasel talk 03:06, 10 June 2022 (UTC)