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"Underground"
edit@Leitmotiv, re: [1], exactly. That's why I said caverns needs the qualifier "underground" to distinguish from every other kind of cavern. Per BRD, we return the article to the status quo until we develop a consensus on this talk page otherwise. czar 01:24, 11 January 2019 (UTC)
- Czar Are there other caverns in this game in which the player could be confused with? I only see one cavern, so no need to distinguish since this one is clearly under the ground like all caves. There's nothing to be confused with here, since we are strictly talking within the game world that has no other kinds of caves - just the one. Leitmotiv (talk) 02:47, 11 January 2019 (UTC)
- In introducing the game, which takes place in caverns, it's important to distinguish that they are underground caverns and not above-ground caverns. The former is not implicit. The source also makes this distinction:
czar 02:53, 11 January 2019 (UTC)The gameplay also adhered to this platformer-style approach, with a fidgety-feeling Sabreman spelunking and jumping through the game's castle and deep through its underground caverns.
- Czar There are no above ground caverns by strict definition. Yes there are hillside caverns, but they too are in the ground and of the earth as your link implied. Is there a hillside cave in Underwurlde in which a player could be confused with? And that would require a need to help players distinguish different types of caves within Underwurlde, because I don't see any need to distinguish. Also I see this is not an article on Sabreman, but of Underwurlde. A source can erroneously say anything it wants, that doesn't make it correct. NASA has referred to Planet 9 as Planet X, but it is sorely mistaken and sources from NASA on the subject are not taken seriously, nor can they be a source on Planet Nine suggesting it is also Planet X. Leitmotiv (talk) 03:20, 11 January 2019 (UTC)
- Except we're not writing by strict definition, but for a common audience. I already linked a popular and authoritative dictionary that defines caverns/caves as existing both above and below ground. I don't know how a multiplicity of caves in the game would make a difference. If we tell the reader that the game takes place in a castle and a cave, there is a question of their relation and whether the cave is above ground. By adding a single-word qualifier, we make that distinction clear, and it is important in this case because the game notably scrolls vertically. Not sure where you're going with Retro Gamer (which is a reliable source) and Sabreman (which is the series to which Underwurlde belongs). There is no question that the source is credible. This is a purely a matter of style and whether this is a hard and fast rule that needs to be unilaterally applied. I think I've given convincing evidence that there is no such need, or at the very least, that it's within the realm of editorial discretion rather than incorrectness. czar 03:28, 11 January 2019 (UTC)
- You should read your dictionary source a little bit carefully again, no where does it say a cave is above ground. It does say it can be in a hillside however. I can get on your side if there was a scenario in Underwurlde where there is another cave to contrast with, but there isn't. Since the only cave in the game is under the ground, it is, in this particular case, redundant, and clarifying its location does nothing, since 1. there is no hillside cave to be confused with and 2. there is only one cave in the game. Therefore the need to clarify or distinguish here accomplishes nothing, or at least, just as much as "cave" would. Leitmotiv (talk) 04:01, 11 January 2019 (UTC)
- ? The first definition:
Beyond that, I'd be repeating myself. czar 05:54, 11 January 2019 (UTC)1. a natural chamber or series of chambers in the earth or in the side of a hill or cliff
- See, doesn't say the words "above ground"! Thanks for posting! Leitmotiv (talk) 06:01, 11 January 2019 (UTC)
- ? The first definition:
- You should read your dictionary source a little bit carefully again, no where does it say a cave is above ground. It does say it can be in a hillside however. I can get on your side if there was a scenario in Underwurlde where there is another cave to contrast with, but there isn't. Since the only cave in the game is under the ground, it is, in this particular case, redundant, and clarifying its location does nothing, since 1. there is no hillside cave to be confused with and 2. there is only one cave in the game. Therefore the need to clarify or distinguish here accomplishes nothing, or at least, just as much as "cave" would. Leitmotiv (talk) 04:01, 11 January 2019 (UTC)
- Except we're not writing by strict definition, but for a common audience. I already linked a popular and authoritative dictionary that defines caverns/caves as existing both above and below ground. I don't know how a multiplicity of caves in the game would make a difference. If we tell the reader that the game takes place in a castle and a cave, there is a question of their relation and whether the cave is above ground. By adding a single-word qualifier, we make that distinction clear, and it is important in this case because the game notably scrolls vertically. Not sure where you're going with Retro Gamer (which is a reliable source) and Sabreman (which is the series to which Underwurlde belongs). There is no question that the source is credible. This is a purely a matter of style and whether this is a hard and fast rule that needs to be unilaterally applied. I think I've given convincing evidence that there is no such need, or at the very least, that it's within the realm of editorial discretion rather than incorrectness. czar 03:28, 11 January 2019 (UTC)
- Czar There are no above ground caverns by strict definition. Yes there are hillside caverns, but they too are in the ground and of the earth as your link implied. Is there a hillside cave in Underwurlde in which a player could be confused with? And that would require a need to help players distinguish different types of caves within Underwurlde, because I don't see any need to distinguish. Also I see this is not an article on Sabreman, but of Underwurlde. A source can erroneously say anything it wants, that doesn't make it correct. NASA has referred to Planet 9 as Planet X, but it is sorely mistaken and sources from NASA on the subject are not taken seriously, nor can they be a source on Planet Nine suggesting it is also Planet X. Leitmotiv (talk) 03:20, 11 January 2019 (UTC)
- In introducing the game, which takes place in caverns, it's important to distinguish that they are underground caverns and not above-ground caverns. The former is not implicit. The source also makes this distinction: