Talk:Unending/ZPM

ZPM, sugar cubes and vegetables

The Zero Point Module is heavily drained in the course of the time dilation field's activation, it is unknown if the reversing the time dilation field would result in restoration of the ZPMs power capacity.

A lot of things are heavily drained, it's also unknown if Mitchell had the same amount of head hair, we naturally wouldn't write this, at best this should be noted in the plot not a "trivia" section. Not to mention it could be argued the usage of the words "It is unknown" would require citations, obviously it could easily be known.. by the writers. --Matthew

Actually if time reverses to the point where they entered the field, everything would be EXACTLY as it was the split second when they entered it. There's no grey area here. However, since the ZPM does not operate in normal space and draws its energy from subspace, the domain it actually draws energy from may not have been restored when time reversed, the ZPM itself may have been changed back to its original state but the subspace layer may not have.

Think of it like an oxygen tank connected between two rooms, through a wall with a hose, if you change EVERYTHING back to the way it was in the room the hose connects to, would that return all the air back into the oxygen tank if you don't touch anything outside that room? - Count23 11:57, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

It's actually a reasonably poor example, but i'll make an addendum that helps a bit more. Think of the room the hose leads to with a closed, but not sealed door. You're in the room breathing oxygen (in this case, the energy used from the ZPM for the time field), can you still return all the oxygen back to where it belongs in the tank? The wiki page on ZPMs says they can't be thermodynamically reversed and recharged.- Count23 12:00, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

I'm sorry but your arguments do not sway me, the time travel technology is not stated as only reversing time in this universe. Matthew 12:04, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

Then the ZPM is depleted from it's time in the field since the artificial subspace is _NOT_ of this universe. You are arguing the same point. Addendum: sorry, misread your statement there. Carter specifically said that the TDD COULDNT reverse time in the universe, only in the field. - Count23 12:08, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

Perhaps you misunderstood my comment, "the time travel technology is not stated as only reversing time in this [our] universe [the universe the TD field is in]", the ZPM is within the field thus it and it's contents are reversed. Things like this can be represented in multiple-ways, thus why this sort of text should not be included within articles. Matthew 12:13, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

I dont think the ZPM would be restored, think of it, in order for the time dilation field to remain in effect around Teal'c (in order for him to travel back in time) it needs to draw energy from the ZPM, the act of going back in time is drawing power from the zpm, into the main computer, its not simply a rewind, its merely using the time dilation field in a different way, non-the-less, still using energy, if Teal'c remains 50 years old, its conceivable that the ZPM remains 50 years old, since it was tied into the system that sent Teal'c back. If you travel back in time, its conceivable that your time machine would have to come with you, and the power source too, which could indicate that Teal'c travelled back, and the ZPM and anything else tied into the same system would too. Baaleos 12:11, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

They used the Ori beam weapon to power the technology, the ZPM was never taken out of the time dialation field, but at timecode 34:42 carter says that the reversing proceedure cant affect the whole universe, so the ZPM is depleted regardless. Teal'c was in the shield to keep him _out_ of the time dialation field, so that he could not be reversed with everyone else, but the ZPM remained inside. However, as i said before, an artificial region of subspace time is NOT a part of the universe, and even if it was, we have verbal proof from carter that the TDD cannot reverse effects outside the bubble anyway - Count23 12:13, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

In my opinion, some of this is too trivial for the article.. Illyria05 (Talk • Contributions) 12:17, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

Well the outcome of this actually also will probably effect the changes in the Zero Point Module article too. So it's worth discussing. - Count23 12:18, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

I would think that artificial Areas of Subspace (ZPM) would still be goverened by the laws of time. Thats like saying ok, Im gonna reverse time, but only the sky will reverse in time, not the ocean or anything in it. Subspace is just another layer of space if my understanding of it is correct, and besides the drain on ZPM is an action, its an action that causes the drain on ZPM's, if you reverse time, those Actions never happened, therefore no drain never happened, and your not so much as recharging a ZPM, your just going back in time to a point before you did use it up. Thats why SG-1 were able to go back to Ancient Egypt to get a ZPM, (yes i know this is a different ZPM) but they went back in time to get it at a point in time when it was charged and knew its location, your argument that time traveling back wouldnt restore its power, would mean that if the Egyption ZPM had been drained in 2000bc, but SG-1 went back to 2001bc it would still be drained, even before the usage... a clear paradox. Also, sorry bout the wrong facts i stated about Unending, I havent actually watched it yet, its still downloading at home... Lol Baaleos 12:22, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

Ra's ZPM was never actually depleted, they stole it in 2000BC because that was when they knew it was on Earth, afterwards it disappeared with Ra. The problem with the ZPM, as well, is because it's an artifically generated region of subspace-time, it isn't governed by the normal laws of time, the energy expenditure to keep the time field going is actually dissipated as the field is maintained, reversing time would force the ZPM to "suck" energy back from the surrounding environment, not simple return the energy back that was used. It's a hard concept to get around, i know, but relativity and quantum mechanics can't be "cheated" so easily. - Count23 12:26, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

I know that Ra's ZPM was never actually used, but I was using it as a hypothetical scenario, if you were to deplete a ZPM, then travel back in time to a date, say, a year before you used it, you would expect it to be re-charged, or perhaps thats a bad term to use, but you would expect it to be "un-used". Do we actually know that reversing time would cause the ZPM to so much as SUCK, energy back from the surrounding environment? I mean, we are talking about a fictional powersource. Aukhams Razor, (not sure if thats correct spelling) simplist theory most often the right one.Baaleos 12:32, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

I know, but i studied quantum mechanics, temporal theories and relativity. It's not quite as simple as what you describe, we really don't know what the producers were thinking or how detailed they were in their studies before the event happened, you could be right or i could be right. Which is why i prefer we keep the statement that "we dont know and havent been told" in as part of the original quote, this is why i insisited that it stay in there instead of just saying "The ZPM was drained".- Count23 12:35, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

Studying quantum mechanics or not, Stargate is a work of fiction, it's best not to speculate. Matthew 12:39, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

It's not speculation. 1) We know the ZPM was drained. 2) We do not know if it was recharged. These are facts, there is no speculation in that note. - Count23 12:40, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

I do not belive Carter said /completely/ but rather /almost/. Matthew 12:44, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

Well, I guess we will never actually know, unless Sam Carter comes along and tells us, Damn that chick is smart. Lol. Also, do you think the Asgard Technology, will allow Earth to replicate ZPM's, or create similar powersources? This episode sorta makes me think that earth is going to have reached some pinacle of advancment, Replication Technology = no shortage of food and such. How much do you think the US government is going to make publically available, and I bet the Jaffa get greedy and want some of it too. You saw how they went crazy in "CounterStrike" when they had the ancient Weapon of Dar'kara, I hope Earth doesnt give any to them. But in regards to the ZPM drained or not thing, prob best we leave it, no point arguing and getting stressed over a fictional dilema.Baaleos 12:48, 14 March 2007 (UTC) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Baaleos (talk • contribs) 12:45, 14 March 2007 (UTC).

I doubt it. The discussion over ZPMs is unending, but at the end of the day, it is difficult to escape the conclusion that if they could be easily replicated, whether by the Asgard or the Ancients, then a) there should be far more of them around, and b) the Ancients should never have lost the war against the Wraith. The Aurora-class warships in particular are far larger than a ZPM-powered drone-armed warship should need to be. I'm somewhat of the opinion that the Asgard are actually more technologically advanced in some respects than the Ancients. And with regard to the Asgard, I can't help but think it would have been simpler for them to just build a fleet of O'Neil class warships for Earth to use. It couldn't have been beyond the Asgard to build an automated shipyard. 217.155.206.69 20:46, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

Unfortunately, one of Stargate's primary weaknesses has always been the "big picture" stuff. The strongest episodes are usually the "small" stories; bigger concepts, like the death of the Asgard, tend to be used as "throwaway" plot points. As you suggested, it would have made more sense to flesh out the Asgard element - but instead, they essentially show up, have a complete change of heart and hand over all the toys, then ("poof") vanish from the universe. --Ckatz^chat_spy 20:59, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

He is right, we don't really know, we will know soon enought when Atlantis season four starts. Carter did say EVERYTHING in the field would go back to the way it did, the computer did, so why not the ZPM? Think about setting a reset button. Besides, remeber that no one except for Teal'c knew what happened when he went back in time, they would have noticed that the ZPM was all the sudden dead. My theroy is that the ZPM is intact, and will be sent back to Atlantis because earth does not need with the ships being powered by Asgard Cores and because the current ZPM will be drained do to the failed Hyperdrive trip.

i don't see how the statement is dubious and isn't very important, seeing as zpm tend to be very important plot items

I doubt it's depleted, that would be a really cheap way to screw up yet another ZPM. I think the writers finally learned that fans DON'T want the ships to be destroyed, they DON'T want anymore ZPM screwups.

Also, why does everyone keep wanting Odyssey's ZPM to go to Atlantis? I think they should keep it, afterall, it's better safe than sorry in the Ori galaxy. Plus, Atlantis on a new planet, wouldn't need a ZPM as they are totally safe, plus, they have the intergalactic bridge to go to Earth.

Vala M 21:33, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

I'm confused, does no one here know what reversing time means? If everything was reset back to how it was before they activated the field then the ZPM wouldn't have ever used the power. It wasn't recharged, it just never used the power in the first place. Okay so I understand what you are saying about the ZPM energy not really existing in our universe but think about it, if the ZPM had to continually get new energy from the other universes then theoretically it would continue to charge itself up. If it works like a battery instead then it would have a charge built up that would be restored with the reversal of time. Okay so physics isn't my strong point but this is already physically impossible isn't it?DavetheAvatar 21:46, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

Ok, im quite drunk at the minute, but im also watching this episode, and coming to a realisation. Ok, Carter says that when the time gets reset, that it will reset back to the point when the field was engaged. Ok, but she states this only applies to time inside the field, which means that the beam, which was already fired when the field engaged, should have remained in its position when the field was "reset" which means the Ori beam weapon would have already fired, and been well on its way to impact the Ship. Which contradicts what we saw. It reversed time to a few minutes before the beam fired, which can be attributed to Carter saying "she might be able to buy us some extra minutes" but no matter what she could have done, the beam was outside of the field, and it and the ori battlecruiser would not have been affected by alterations to time within the field. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Baaleos (talk • contribs) 23:26, 14 March 2007 (UTC).

Yo. Uh anyway in relation to what [DaveTheAvatar] said 'does no one here know what reversing time means? If everything was reset back to how it was before they activated the field then the ZPM wouldn't have ever used the power. It wasn't recharged, it just never used the power in the first place.' Anyway they were in a time dialation feild, doesn't mean its reversing time' dialation fields just speed up/slow down time in a bubble if you please, inside the bubble, time is faster or slower depending on how the feild is set. Time can go 10,000 years in the future inside of the feild and not a second will pass on the outside. Not sure if someone said that, I just say Dave's and I decided to post. BTW I don't know if I spelt feild right lol. Laters! -Jordz

that's not the way it works. It's thermodynamics, the energy is being used on the time dialation field, to maintain it and the ships systems, we can easily restore the energy that the ships systems use, but the energy that goes into the time dialation field is expended and cannot be retreived since it's being irradiated outside the TD field to keep time at a slow pace, to retreive that energy would effectivley require you to synthesize energy from nothing to return what the TD field bled off during it's activation. Think of it as breathing from an oxygen tank, if you were to reverse everything and put all the oxygen back into the bottle, you pretty much can't because some oxygen has bonded with CO2 and cannot be seperated just by breathing out then in, rather then in and out. - Count23 08:19, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

Count, are you sure the energy is being used to keep time slow? I thought it was being used to keep time fast within the field, with the illusion of time moving slower outside the field, effectivly 2 different things, I dont think a ZPM would have enough power to slow down time for the entire universe even for an hour let alone 50 years, all it did was speed up time within the field for a fraction of a few seconds, which in turn turned out to be 50 years. If ZPM's are outside of our space time, then wouldnt that suggest that the contents of a ZPM would also be moving at whatever pace they would be moving outside of the field? Its kinda interesting to think of how time would reverse itself, time inside the field would rewind 50 years within say 5 seconds, but outside the field time went back a few seconds. I think its safe to say, theres alot of descrepencies with Stargate and Known Physics models. Baaleos 10:49, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

Ok, I didn't read all of that up there, but I would just like to say: this is a trivial point and there is little reason to include it in Wikipedia anyway. 219.90.185.158 12:07, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

Every other stargate episode that has something major happen to a ZPM has a footnote on that episode page, why should this be any different.

If we remove the "may or may not have been restored" comment, the line becomes speculation because we're assuming it returned to normal after it was drained and we know damned well those things dont operate in normal space-time from all the Atlantis episodes dealing with Zero Point energy. Removing that section and just saying "The ZPM was drained" makes it speculation and leaving the whole note out is contrary to what's been done with every other episode page. - Count23 12:21, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

Oooh, just thought of somthing. "Stargate: the Arc of Truth" SG-1 on the *Odessey* travel to the Ori home galaxy. Since we know that Intergalactic travel WITHOUT a ZPM takes about 3 weeks, then we have to assume that they use a ZPM to reach their destination in a realistic amount of time, they cant spend 3 weeks on the way to the galaxy and have this fit within a 90 minute to 2 hour episode. It just doesnt fit. They either got the ZPM from atlantis, from Earths Defense Outpost, or Odessey is still making use of their own. Since we know that Atlantis's is nearly depleted, due to the whole "Im floating in space and running out of power in 24 hours" thing, and I doubt Earth is going to give away their only ZPM to the Odessey to go Galavanting around in another Galaxy knowing there are at least several other Ori Ships in the Galaxy capable of killing them. Its likely that there is some power left in the ZPM on Odessey, regardless of whether its possible according to laws of physics, its at the descretion of the Writers, and the IOA on earth would never allow their ZPM to leave Earth Defensless. Baaleos 14:35, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

Just a thought, if "reverse time" meant Teal'c traveling back in time to stop SG-1 from activating the Time Dilation field, then would it mean that Teal'c is actually in an alternate timeline where the ZPM was not used to power the Time Dilation Field in the first place? For all intense purposes, I believe that the ZPM that was used to power the time-dilation field and the time-dilation field-reversal process is probably drained, maybe even dead (and so is the Asgard computer core's power source, according to Carter), but when Teal'c traveled back in time, that's all different, because in a sense, the old/aged SG-1 died after the ship explodes, and sending Teal'c back in time. The cost to put up the TD field and the reversal process requires energy, just not the energy of this surviving SG-1 but the energy from the old/aged SG-1. So I think the answer to the question of whether the ZPM is actually used up is relative, depends on which timeline you are looking at. -- pobetiger 72.190.1.116 21:30, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

Baaleos, they use the Supergate. Since it's deactivated now and there's no other way to get to the Ori galaxy (they still don t know where it is either! The spoilers say they use the SG to jump into the Ori galaxy to find hte Ark of Truth - Count23 23:57, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

Oh, didnt see that bit, but I thought they were able to triangulate locations of planets and such from gate addresses. Daniel probably knows the gate address, the Ori home galaxy is probably the ancients home galaxy, and he did play host to Merlin, its possible he remembers the gate address from his time as a prior, although he forgot his knowledge, he remembers his actions, and likely remembers what gate address he sent the supergate connection to. Also, has anyone thought what would happen if a ship were to enter the supergate, and attempt to exit on a regular size gate? Would miniturization occur? Lol Would be funny if they jumped the Ori Connection, from Ori Galaxy, to a smaller gate, and ended up with mini Ori Battle Cruisers, which fit through ordinary gates. Lol, people the size of few inches. LolBaaleos 12:35, 16 March 2007 (UTC) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Baaleos (talk • contribs) 12:34, 16 March 2007 (UTC).

This is all original research

All of what was said above is original research, which cannot be included in any article. If there is no explanation in universe, then we should not state one at all. --Deskana (talk) 01:34, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

You know technically, everything is original research at some point. -- DavetheAvatar 01:51, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

Which is exactly why i said that the statement, as it is, should remain. The ZPM was drained, which we know since it was directly stated by carter, we DO NOT know if the ZPM was restored when time reversed. - Count23 02:07, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

It may just be me, but if the universe from which the ZPM draws it's energy is self-contained then it should have been restored. Or if a ZPM failing is simply due to entropy it makes sense that it would have again been restored. 82.33.48.201 23:16, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

The ZPM is a power-source, and Carter said "there isnt enough power to make the reverse time field work" this tells me, that it would cost energy to reverse time, rather than return the energy. Im sure if the energy was to be returned Carter would have said somthing along the lines of "We just need some energy to kick start the reverse time field, then we will recover all the energy we lost." Since she doesnt say this, i think its fair to say that the reverse time field continued to drain energy. The only question is "How much did it drain" and did it leave enough energy for this ZPM to be a plot device in "The Arc of Truth" Baaleos 12:36, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

to make this easier on anyone trying to tally up what people think about this, i'm going to say NO - the zpm's status should be removed. in fact, i'll remove it after this post.

personally, i think the zpm is full and do not find any of the arguments presented to the contrary convincing. never-the-less, if it is this contentious - if it is this speculative - it should be removed. there are lots of things we don't know about in sg-1, in general - there are lots of things that can be speculated about and that can be debated. wikipedia articles, however, should not be where this debate takes place. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.65.123.206 (talk) 02:52, 21 March 2007 (UTC).

I'm sorry, but if you've been tracking the discussion, most people agree it should remain as it is. We DO NOT KNOW that the ZPM was recharged, THAT is speculation. And in keeping with tracking along with every SINGLE episode of Stargate that has something major happen to a ZPM, there should be a note about the ZPMs state in this episode guide too. restored blanked comment. - Count23 02:59, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

Once consensus is reached, you can modify or remove it, but until then, it stays. - Count23 03:02, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

consensus

“ Once consensus is reached, you can modify or remove it, but until then, it stays. ”

there's too much unrelated crap in the other section to get any sort of consensus without having to put an inordinate amount of time into it, so i'm going to start a new section just for votes.

should the much debated zpm comment stay or should it be deleted? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.65.123.206 (talk • contribs)

• Delete

This is being discussed up ^ in the talk page, I suggest you do it there.. Illyria05 (Talk • Contributions) 04:35, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

no. if someone new wants to see what the general consensus is, they'll have to read dozens and dozens of paragraphs. they can't just skim through it looking for embolded text because there is none.

• Keep

Every single episode that has a major event occur to the ZPM has had one or more notes listed in the episode guide, as well as information added to the Zero Point Module page, Unending should be no different. As well, we do not know whether the ZPM was recharged after it was drained, "reversing time" would not necessarily acheive this goal on a device that operates out of normal space-time already.. - Count23 06:32, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

circular reasoning. if the ZPM was recharged, no major event to the ZPM occurred, thus the entry about the zpm boils down to "something major may or may not have happened to the zpm". something major may or may not happen in every episode - something major that may only be revisted later.

as well, i think your argument is ignorant. do you think ZPM's operate out of normal space time or just this one? if it's just this one, I assume you buy into the whole "it's a bridge" crap from above. the starship voyager was a bridge, as well, in the episode Year of Hell, however, that ship got restored to it's original state. i suppose you think that that voyager ep, then, was fundamentally flawed?

I think any discussion about ZPM's should be kept, ZPMs became integral to the survival of Earth, and defense of Atlantis, of course the debate of whether or not the ZPM is drained or not is important. It makes the difference between Destruction of Atlantis, safety of Earth or any other multidude of possibilities. I think this debate should stay, since Count provides some good insights into Physics of Space time. Although I would suggest that people take this debate alittle less seriously, it is after all just a tv series, one might I add that is now "Dead". :( Baaleos 21:31, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

• Delete

If this belongs anywhere, it belongs on the ZPM page. Ultimately, we don't know whether or not the ZPM would be drained as it's a fictional technology (or at best a fictional interpretation of a possible future technology) and the rules that apply in the real world to such technology need not apply in the Stargate universe. For all we know, ZPMs are powered by angels dancing on the heads of pins. It's not encyclopedic to state "we don't know x."

Carter states the ZPM was depleted in the episode, and we've been told how they work throughout many episodes in the series - Count23 01:35, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

if we've been told how they work, so many times, and if that's so relevant to this discussion, then why aren't you convincing anyone? maybe you can name the episode where Carter says "ZPM's do not all of a sudden regain their energy when time is reversed"?

and yes, Carter states the ZPM was depleted. and then everything was undone - the destruction of the ship, the ZPM's charge, EVERYTHING (save for Teal'C). check out User_talk:69.65.123.206/Unending.

never-the-less, the OPs point still stands. it is unencyclopedic to state "we don't know x". if we don't know it, DON'T INCLUDE IT! an encyclopedia isn't a list of things we don't know - it's a list of things we DO KNOW. i am willing to accept your stance that we don't know. in such an event, though, it SHOULD STILL BE REMOVED. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.65.123.206 (talk) 03:12, 22 March 2007 (UTC).

Have you bothered to read the "Zero Point Module" page? How many times do i have to explain "operates outside of our space-time continuum? Everyone makes a bloody big asumption that the ZPM is restored after the events in the episode, that IS an assumption none the less, the only facts we know is the ZPM is depleted by the end of the episode before time reverses, so we cannot assume it was restored if they couldn't use it to "kick start" the time reverse process in the first place. - Count23 03:16, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

Have you? The word "space" only occurs three times and no where is it in the context you claim it's in. you talk about bloody big assumptions. what about the ones you're making? fucking hypocrite.

i think you're confusing the Sangraal (Stargate) and Zero Point Modules. the Sangraal likely operates out of space time. Jackson suggests this because the device is smaller then it seems like it should be. he's never said that of ZPMs.

also, if the ZPM operates out of space-time, then why isn't it depleted in Before I Sleep? the ZPMs are depleted in Weir's time, so per your logic, shouldn't they be depleted after she goes back in time? after all, the ZPMs transcend space-time, so say Count23, so they must be depleted!

and you're right that it's an assumption to state otherwise. so why should we state ANYTHING at all? btw, it's also an assumption to assume that Jackson really is Jackson and not some replicator that's just deciding to act like him. it's a far fetched assumption, yes, but so are you're assumptions—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.65.123.206 (talk) 03:22, 22 March 2007 (UTC).

Please watch your language, 69.65.123.206. Your aggressive, hostile approach will only get you banned - which will not help to advance your point. --Ckatz^chat_spy 03:37, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

And again, i have to repeat, ZPMs operate OUTSIDE normal space time, that means they're NOT a part of our universe and NOT constrained by our physical laws, THATS why they can work.

As well, i have to repeat this because it doesnt seem to be sinking in anywhere in this discussion. EVERY SINGLE EPISODE PAGE that has a MAJOR EVENT happen to a ZPM, say, finding one, or DRAINING one, has a note somewhere on the page. If we don't add the information about the ZPM being drained and potentially permenantly depleted, then we should remove ALL references to ZPMs from EVERY EPISODE PAGE. - Count23 04:24, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

where does it say that ZPMs operate outside normal space time? Not the ZPM article. maybe you can provide a citation? otherwise, keep your unsubstantiated crap to yourself. please dont make me repeat myself a third time (just as you seem to think im making you repeat yourself, hah!)

and even assuming you could find such a citation (i doubt you could), how would you explain my point about Before I Sleep? oh - wait - it's not constrained by our laws, so it doesn't have to make sense, does it? right? a zpm could turn into a bunny and because it's not constrained by our laws (which, as i said, is a bogus assumption, anyway), that wouldn't bother you at all, would it?

as for your last paragraph - you're an idiot. the article already says the ZPM is depleted in the episode description. "However, the problem with this plan is that the time dilation field has used virtually all of the power from the Asgard computer and the ZPM, making it impossible." speculating as to whether or not it's depleted after everything was undone is just that - speculation - and it doesn't belong in the wikipedia article.

you say every episode that involved a zpm mentioned it. fine. but they don't all mention it in the Notes section. see Trinity (Stargate Atlantis), Childhood's End (Stargate Atlantis), etc. also, even if they did, none of them would be forced to add speculative crap as is being done in this article.

since i'm not sure how to modify that note without making it speculative, either, i propose it simply not be there. look at all this discussion on the subject. no other stargate ep has had to have it because none of their notes (if they had them) have been as speculative as this one.

The sentence should be deleted, as the IP correctly states and I have prior, it's just speculation not appropriate for Wikipedia. Matthew 07:21, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

Agreed, it's pure speculation and nothing else. The other episodes that've had major ZPM events might've been noted, but that's because the episode generally ends with a line like "Well, at least we've found 3 more ZPMs" or "Darn, that experiment completely depleted our ZPM", so there's been no speculation needed to state what the status change is. In this case, although we know that the ZPM was drained before the end of the episode, there's reasonable doubt as to whether or not that drain was permanent and still in effect at the end of the episode, so any statement about it will be speculation. If next season of Atlantis, or the next movie, includes a line about being down to 2 ZPMs now thanks to the Odessey mission, we can add back in a note about the fact that it was drained here. But until we get confirmation from a canon source, the note should stay out. --Maelwys 12:53, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

No idea if anyone has said this already and doubt anyone is going to read this since its months after the last person posted, but what if the zpm was recharged by the energy weapon? Please don't mess around with temporal paradoxes, you'll just hurt yourself —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.158.45.6 (talk) 22:01, 9 November 2007 (UTC)