Talk:Unforgivable Curses

Cruciatus by Draco Malfoy in DH?

I checked the Lexicon and also my UK version of Chapter 9. It's implied, but not stated (the fact that Rowle is writhing on the floor strongly suggests this, though) that Draco is being forced to use it on the Death Eater. Should this be added into the table, or as a note at the end regarding possible ambiguity? --24.84.67.227 07:15, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

Avada Kadavra is not the only curse that kills

It's simply unblockable. As such, Tonks, Lupin, Gideon Prewett, Fabian Prewett and Emmeline Vance are speculation. Plenty of people have been killed with other spells and none of those died 'on screen'.

Yes I agree.Tonks and Lupin fate is not known.It can't be said for sure that they are killed with the AK.This can also be said for Creevy and Bella Denisa hime 11:25, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

True. But these other curses have to be inflicted more than once to take their killing effect. (Such as too many Stunning Curses or being exposed to too much Fiendfyre Crabbe)—Preceding unsigned comment added by ArticlePerfectionism (talk • contribs)

Avada Kedavra's status as the Killing Curse is that it's the only spell to have to exclusive effect of death. Other spells can kill, but that may not be their intended effect. An analogous concept would be dying of old age (AK) or being beaten to death with a baseball bat (other spells).—Ｌｏｖｅはドコ？ (talk • contribs) 02:10, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

Molly Weasley was never specified as casting the Killing Curse. As far as I can tell, Bellatrix just so happened to be caught in a vulnerable spot by a garden-variety curse which did her in. The lack of reference to a green light is a dead giveaway that the Killing Curse wasn't involved, plus, it wouldn't be accurate to suggest that where Bellatrix got caught with the curse was especially vulnerable, because every part of the body is equally vulnerable to Avada Kedavra, no? 04:58, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

I agree. There is no conclusive evidence that Molly Weasley used the Killing Curse. Rowling's detailed account lacks the green light that is signature to this curse and explained in every usage thus far. Molly Weasley should be removed from the caster list of this particular curse.

I don't believe it is stated that Ariana Dumbledore died from Avada Kadavra either. She was killed in the fight between her brothers and Grindelwald but was it ever stated how?

It was said that "She wanted to help." and "we don't know wwhich one did it " And yes. half that list is speculation. I suggest we only have the actual known victums of the killling curse on the lis, meaning death mentioned to have been pulled off by Avada Kedavra, or ones that were preceded by the words "Avada Kedavra"

Ok, when I learned Aramaic in yeshiva, my teachers said it is אברא כדברא (avra kadavra) which translates from Rabbinic Aramaic to "I shall create as I speak." I really don't see how אבדא כדברא (avda kadavra)translates as she says. Yes, אבדא means I shall destroy, and it could be "I shall destroy as I speak" or "I shall destroy as the thing" (dvar means both speech and item), but the כ would be completely superfluous in "I shall destroy the thing." And Aramaic, certainly Rabbinic Aramaic, which is the type that is most likely to have seeped into English is known for its avoidance of even one superfluous letter. And I just found what itsays in the Wikipedia article on Abracadabra http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abracadabra, which also confirms what I know. 75.3.236.39 (talk) 03:59, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

Spoiler warning?

I was reading thru the article and noticed how Albus Dumbledore is listed as a known victim of the Avada Kedavra curse casted by Severus Snape in HBP. There is also mention of Cedric Diggory's fate in GoF, as well as revealing critical plot details in GoF (Barty Crouch Jr. impersonating Alastor Moody). Should this warrant for a spoiler warning to be attached to this article? 124.217.27.0 00:45, 25 June 2007 (UTC) also all the characters that were killed by this spell in the deathly hallows are written there and the book just got out!!!!

Then I suggest you read the book instead of looking up information on the victims, so that you are not spoiled :)--Problematik 04:01, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

I wasn't looking up information on the victims. I was looking up the origin of Avada Kedavra. Unfortunately, the two are intermingled. I can understand information through Book 6 being considered safe. However, when Deathly Hallows has been out LESS THAN 48 hours - I believe a clear warning needs to be given before any information from the book is revealed.

I totally agree. I've not read HP7 yet but have learnt a Major spoiler about it reading this page. :-( Harani66 16:20, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

Sorry, Problematik, but I CONCUR with those above! I, also, was looking up information on the unforgiveable curses. The plot points detailing their use directly follows the listing of each curse, with no spoiler warnings. Regardless of how long the books have been available - as a service to future readers, PLEASE consider placing a spoiler warning AND re-organizing the information as presented. Possibly an overview/definition of ALL the curses, followed by a spoiler warning, followed by the specific plot points? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.37.227.195 (talk) 18:47, 3 October 2007 (UTC)

I'd go with both. If you are looking up characters without reading one of the books that hasn't become a movie, and don't wish for their fates to be "spoiled," then don't read it. But the information going along with the curse is also important. I suggest making a page entitled: "Origin of the Unforgivable Curses in Harry Potter," and another "Victims of the Unforgivable Curses in Harry Potter." Basketball110 21:54, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

Crucio by MEM

Voldemort didn't use Imperius to make Harry bow, he just used a magical telekinesis to make Harry bow. Confirmed in Goblet of Fire book, Harry feels his body moved but none of the happiness that is supposed to take place under Imperius.

I agree completely. It was not Imperius, and a long time ago I edited it as such. Harry can throw off the Imperius curse. Some ignorant person has clearly reinstated this erroneous fact. (Mike Connor, hidden email)

He may not be able to throw off the Imperius curse if performed by voldemort. I hadn't edited it though just commenting Wolfmankurd 18:22, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

It is entirely possible that Voldemort may have made Harry bow with a nonverbal Imperius curse. Please refrain from calling people ignorant when they simply may have thought of something you did not. Thanks! --Problematik 04:02, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

Agreed with above. Both Dumbledore, and Voldemort are capable of not having to say a single thing while in a duel. Basketball110 21:56, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

Crucio by MEM

Are you sure about it been Barty Crouch Jnr. who cast the spell, been right at the start of the book I would have thought it was Mad Eye himself.Medscin 12:23, 25 December 2005 (UTC)

It was Barty Jr.. Moody was brought out of retirement to teach, but was attacked and subdued in his own home, then locked in his own trunk(The attack was mentioned in one of the first couple chapters, as Mr. Weasley had to set things right, due to the dustbins attacking an "intruder." It was labeled a false alarm by the imposter, and since Moody had a reputation for paranoia, it was easily believed).--Vercalos 20:18, 1 February 2006 (UTC)

First view of the Killing Curse

The article currently states that we first see the Avada Kedavra being used on a human being in GoF when Frank Bryce is killed. However, although it's true that we first see the whole thing (incantation and effect) in GoF, we have already seen the effect in the first film (when Lily is killed), and we've heard at least part of the incantation in the second film (when Lucius Malfoy tries to use it on Harry just outside Dumbledore's office, ridiculously uncanonical and unlikely as this would be). Is there a way we can clarify this a bit more? Tobelia 02:28, 1 January 2006 (UTC)

Films are uncanonical and the books are what articles are based on 81.154.139.231 21:12, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

Killing Curse+Fawkes=Fire?

"Fawkes [HP4] Lord Voldemort Struck by curse aimed at Dumbledore, burst into flames, reborn again from ashes."

I don't remember Voldemort and Dumbledore even being in the same location in the entire Goblet of Fire, so how could Voldemort aim a spell at him?--Vercalos 20:20, 1 February 2006 (UTC)

That event happened in book 5, not 4. PenguinLord 01:54, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

Fawkes is a phoenix, when he dies he explodes into flames. Wolfmankurd 18:23, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

Victims of Imperius Curse

Shouldn't Barty Crouch Sr. be included as well? At the end of the book(Not at all in the movie), Barty CrouCch Jr. admitted to having Barty Crouch Sr. under the Imperius Curse, Which the article mentioned they ended up learning to throw off through repeated exposure.--Vercalos 20:25, 1 February 2006 (UTC)

If you know it to be true, and could document it with "chapter and verse" if asked, then by all means add it. T-dot 20:46, 1 February 2006 (UTC)

I was hoping someone else could. I dont actually own the book so couldn't say which chapter it was mentioned in--Vercalos 20:59, 1 February 2006 (UTC)

Minor edit. Added {{spoiler}} before the last 2 columns of the table; to warn wiki users, who may not have read ^[HP6] yet; or who are reading ^[HP6], but have not reached that part. Jacnoc (Desk) -- 23:12, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

The statement, in the notes for Stan Shunpike, "If so, it was to find the real Harry Potter among the fakes because they knew that Harry would not try to harm Stan.", is purely conjecture. It is more likely that the death eaters "imperiused" him as he was easily available (in Azkaban) to add to their numbers and had no thought that Harry would not try to harm him or that he would recognize the "real" Harry or give himself away by being too "nice" in a fight with Stan. Indeed, the death eaters did not realize that they would need to identify the "real" Harry out of six imposters. Further, Harry tried to harm very few people, it is notable that amongst the non-death eaters and the Order in particular, it was rare for anybody to try to kill someone else, even a death eater out to do them in. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 209.78.98.27 (talk) 02:35, August 21, 2007 (UTC)

the imperius curse: twice in the graveyard?

From the article: "The graveyard duel - twice: forced to bow before the duel, forced to answer (successfully resisted)"

Harry is able to block the imperius curse, so I do not think Voldemort used the imperious curse to make him bow. Rather, I think he used another spell that pushed his back forward. Unlike with the imperius curse, this kind of spell would cause Harry to bend forward unwillingly.

If the bow was indeed caused by an imperius curse, Harry would have been able to resist it, and it would have been more likely that Voldemort would say "imperio."

No. It wasn't an Imperious curse.. It was the cruciatus curse Voldemort used to make Harry bow.--Vercalos 05:18, 12 February 2006 (UTC)

No way it was a Cruciatus. In other cases of where Crucio was used, the victims (including Harry) collapsed to the ground screaming in agony. Harry was indeed able to block the Imperius curse - when he knew it was coming as a verbal spell. Voldemort is extraordinarily powerful, and Harry has never been that good at blocking non-verbal spells. I believe all the evidence indicates that Voldemort was using a non-verbal Imperius curse, or something else, and Harry was unable to block it:

"I said, bow," Voldemort said, while raising his wand - and Harry felt his spine curve as though a huge, invisible hand were bending him ruthlessly forward..." ^[HP4] (ch 34, p. 660, US ed.)

Harry was then attacked with a non-verbal Cruciatus that he failed to block - "screaming more loudly than he'd ever screamed in his life - " (ibid, p. 661). But Harry worked hard on blocking the verbal Imperius:

"Answer me! Imperio! And Harry felt, for the third time in his life, the sensation that his mind had been wiped of all thought..." (ibid, p. 661)

... and Harry was able to resist that Imperius: "I WON'T!" (ibid, p. 662)

Even then, the bowing wasn't an imperius curse, so as far as I know, the imperius curse is only used once in the graveyard sequence.--Vercalos 22:17, 12 February 2006 (UTC)

Fine - then name the 3 times indicated by for the third time in his life. So far all we have found is once in the DADA Classroom, before the Graveyard incident(s). -- T-dot 22:32, 12 February 2006 (UTC)

Alright. Twice in the DADA Classroom. The first time, he only partially resisted it, and was sent headlong into the desk. The second time was right after it and he managed to throw it off.--Vercalos 07:56, 13 February 2006 (UTC)

Just interjecting but harry may not be able to resist the imperius curse if performed by voldemort he's undoubtably better at it then barty jnr Wolfmankurd 18:22, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

Harry can resist Voldemort's imperius. See above. It was either an unspoken cruciatus (unlikely though, as Voldemort usually performs it spoken) or a pushing/forced movement spell (more likely, given the description). If as much movement as a bow entails is forced, there WILL be a lot of pain, due to muscle ruptures (which may or may not bring about permanent damage) and other causes. Rotten Venetic 21:56, 14 July 2007 (UTC)

Bertha and Igor

Do we have text in the books that says they were necessarily killed by Avada Kedavra or is that speculation? JoshuaZ 03:40, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

I think it's speculation.. At least with Karkaroff. Bertha was probably killed by the Avada Kedrava, considering at the end of GoF she appears along with everyone up to Harry's parents that was killed by that wand, and if it was a spell other than the killing curse, the apparition probably would have been different(IE the silver hand showing up instead of Wormtail). It is never explicitly stated, but it is strongly implied by this scene.--Vercalos 16:08, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

Per your comment, I am going to remove Karkaroff and leave in Bertha. JoshuaZ 16:58, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

Due to the name "The Killing Curse," I assumed there was only one way to kill somebody (excluding a Dementor's soul-sucking). Then again, it's not canon. --Fbv65edel ^{(discuss | contribs)} 00:08, 31 March 2006 (UTC)

The magical system is not fully self-consistent, but there are other indications that it isn't the only way. For example, in book 3, Harry points his wand at Sirius's heart and presumably has in mind a spell that will at that very close range kill Sirius. Also, Quirrel in book one is described as raising his hands to cast "a killing curse" (I think those are the words, I don't have it in front of me). Finally, in the battle in the Department of Magic, Voldemort uses multiple other spells to try to kill Dumbledore (mainly transfigurations) (in that case, it seems like Avada Kedavra is too slow to be effective as a battle spell against Dumbledore). Avada Kedavra seems to be the most convenient method of killing when one has the ability to cast it and the opponent is unable to move quickly. JoshuaZ 15:24, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

Sectumsepra would easily kill someone I think the killing curses is seen as so bad because it shows the intention to kill. Also if you consider that it's possible to cast the spell and it not result in death maybe it would be unwise to use it against Dumbledor while he is at full health/ has a wand to reduce it's effect. Wolfmankurd 18:25, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

Agreed above. In book 7, if Snape cuts George's ear off, he could probably kill. Basketball110 00:17, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

Link names

It's a big pain if you want to link to any of the Unforgiveable Curses. Suppose I wanted to tell you about the Imperius Curse in another article. This would require the wiki text [[The Unforgivable Curses in the world of Harry Potter#Imperio (The Imperius Curse)|Imperius]], which, after all that, would show up simply as Imperius. Can't we shorten the section names a bit? --Fbv65edel ^{(discuss | contribs)} 00:11, 31 March 2006 (UTC)

Currently "Unforgivable Curses" redirects here. One easy solution would be to swap the redirect and the article, and make the associated changes. JoshuaZ 15:28, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

On it, later today. --Kizor 04:42, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

Duel between Dumbledore and Voldemort

The article claims that Voldemort tried to use Avada Kedavra on Dumbledore in their duel. I don't recall this, and don't have the book in front of me. Can someone confirm this?JoshuaZ 04:41, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

That would be the one Fawkes intercepted. I recall a statue threw itself at another, too. --Kizor 16:55, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

True Pronunciation?

The IPA at the top of the article uses 'ae' (as in cat, right?) for all the A's in avada kedavra. Is this correct? I was under the impression that it was 'ah' sounds (as in don or wand), and it's hard to use 'ae' in unaccented syllables. I don't have the movies to check; also, is there a difference between the official pronunciation and the movie version?

ETA: Yeah, and the 'e' there is also given the 'ae' pronunciation, which is clearly erroneous. Kilyle 05:59, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

Pronunciation is always a tricky thing to convey here - even with IPA. To me, "Wand and Don" do not have "AH" sounds in them in any shape or form.70.189.213.149 (talk) 19:16, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

Correction

About Lucius Malfoy's use of the killing curse in the movie version of the Chamber of Secrets, I don't think he was using that curse. I've looked at the captioning of the movie and what I got was not "Avada...", but instead "Vera...". Is there any curse or spell that sounds like that? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 76.179.29.79 (talk • contribs) 22:29, 3 December 2006 (UTC).

Odd, I do believe my CoS DVD shows "Avada..." Jutm543 22:52, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

It's definatly avada... from what I hear. maybe the caption was done by one of those speech recognision bots and it mess up. Wolfmankurd 21:15, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

Seconded. Malfoy wanted to use the killing curse... but perhaps not on Harry. It can be argued that, even in anger, he realized that Dumbledore and company would not have hesitated to dismantle him and/or send him to Azkaban. Rotten Venetic 21:59, 14 July 2007 (UTC)

Other wikis?

Do we add links to other wikis?--Vercalos 23:59, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

Crucio by Harry

I don't know if Harry's use of Crucio against Bellatrix should be considered dubious. Sure, it was poorly executed ("You have to mean it"), but it was the curse nonetheless and it did cause, however shortly, the desired effect. I don't want to change it yet (though I may shortly), and you may not like it but Harry did indeed perform Crucio. OK, he wasn't prosecuted, but he was using it against a Death Eater and fugitive from Azkaban currently doing the bidding of Voldemort and was proven right in the sight of MoM Cornelius Fudge and Dumbledore. I hardly think they would prosecute him for that when they now have bigger fish to fry. Valley2city 22:46, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

It didn't do what Bellatrix says it should do, but it undeniably did do something. Nonetheless, it is ambiguous as to whether it did what it was meant to do (according to Bellatrix: although I would say that is merely her interpretation of what it is meant to do rather than a cast-iron definition) And, incidentally, it was far worse before I altered it. Michaelsanders 01:18, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

Harry did use it on Bellatrix, but Vally is correct - no jury would convict, and the ministry wanted Potter's support at the time, meaning prosecution was political suicide. Harry never really did get the hang of unforgivable curses while he used them as a necessary means to raid the Lestrange vault at Gringotts. As far as his use of it on Carrow... well, Harry does have his limits to his temper, and after a year of being on the run, with plenty of narrow escapes, he hit his boiling point when Carrows spit in McGonnagalls' face. Harry always respected her as a fair (if strict) teacher, and I think he managed to embarrass her when he tortured Carrows. It wasn't just McGonnagall, it was the torture of Neville and Seamus and the rest of Dumbledore's Army. It was time Carrow got as good as he gave. 209.210.150.61 11:36, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

I am not convinced the Crucio had it's desired effect - namely the intense pain comparable to that suffered by i.e. Harry in the graveyard or Neville in the Department of Mysteries. I also think it's irrelevant as to whether it was a 'legal' use of the curse as the listings seem to be purely for uses/attempted uses. I think it should go under 'failed uses' as the book has Bellatrix replying with ("I'll give you a lesson"). On a side note, Bellatrix's demonstration is, i believe, also a 'failed use', simply because Harry dodged it. Either way Harry's use is either a 'use' or a 'failed use' as the incantation was clearly made.--1sildo618 15:35, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

It didn't cause excruciating pain, but it did cause some pain - i.e. it did work, but not as it is meant to. That, to me, would make it 'ambiguous'. Michaelsanders 14:12, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

To continue: if some people think it is a successful use, and others think it is a failed use, then - unless Rowling says one or the other - 'dubious' is the best compromise. Michaelsanders 14:15, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

Accepted 1sildo618 21:03, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

They may not perscuite because they have no proof harry did it to bellatrix, they never know who performed a curse if they detected it they would probably assume it was a death eater also, all unforgivable curses are used frequently without consequences. Wolfmankurd 18:22, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

Avada Kedavra/Angel of Death?

Somewhere in the book series, (I think in the fourth book where Moody demonstrates the Killing Curse or when Snape kills Dumbledore) there is a sound mentioned as the swishing of wings through the air when the curse is cast. I think this sound might be a reference to crows/vultures (both associated with death), or the Christian/ Semitic Angel of Death, Satan, Mephistopheles, or the Grim Reaper, who all occaisionally appear with wings. Anyone know if this is true, or if Rowling ever mentioned where she got this idea?

Any contribution is welcome.

—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 75.8.226.109 (talk) 04:59, 1 April 2007 (UTC).

Snape and Avada Kedavra

Surely the use of Avada Kedavra on Dumbledore by Snape is dubious because Dumbledore didn't just drop dead like all other victims.

Not sure what Rowling has said on this issue - she has said he is dead, but still the use of the Killing Curse is dubious. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 86.4.237.219 (talk) 20:37, 5 May 2007 (UTC).

Well, Dumbledore did drop dead - albeit, through a window. In my opinion, Snape's Avada Kedavra was clean. Rotten Venetic 22:09, 14 July 2007 (UTC)

Dumbledore was definitely killed by Snape with Avada Kedavra, there is nothing dubious about it. To quote: "Snape raised his wand and pointed it directly at Dumbledore. Avada Kedavra! A jet of green light shot from the end of Snape's wand and hit Dumbledore squarely in the chest." HP & The Half-Blood Prince (Chapter 27/page 596).

Imperius in Dumbledore's Office

I could be misremembering, but wasn't the DA snitch placed under Imperio in Dumbledore's office, to make her lie about how many times they'd met? 204.97.183.31 17:00, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

No. That was a memory modification spell. JoshuaZ 17:07, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

Requesting Semi-protection

I've been seeing a lot of vandalism in this article, such as replacing words with pointless, sexually suggestive terms. I request that this page be semi-protected because of the vandalism.

Thank you Earthere 03:48, 29 May 2007 (UTC)Earthere

A referance to the fact that these articles disscuss something that is fictional has been added at the beginning of each one. Delighted eyes 12:43, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

Quirrell and Avada Kedavra

Didn't Quirrel try to use this curse in the first book but was unable to cause of Harry touching him?212.219.240.212 12:13, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

It makes no mention of Quirrell using anything unforgivable on Harry in Book One: "He felt Quirrell's arm wrenched from his grasp, knew all was lost and fell into blackness, down...down...down" (end conflict)--Problematik 03:58, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

Bellatrix, Sirius and Avada Kedavra

In my opinion, I don't think that Sirius should be listed as a true victim of Avada Kedavra, and Bellatrix as a caster, as this only takes place in the film adaptations and not in the true history of the books. Maybe we could have small note beneath the list. Even even though it states "film only", it isn't the true novel history. Any thoughts? Eagle Owl 15:27, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

I think it would be wise to include all information and make a simple footnote of what occurs "film-only", than to leave information out entirely, especially as someone will likely add it again anyway. --Problematik 03:56, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

You should leave it out. The film makes many changes to stop having to explain Harry Potter book technicalities. In the film, Lucius Malfoy attempts to perform Avada Kedavra on Harry Potter in the 2nd film, that's yet another random discrepancy that can't be included.

The Harry Potter films is NOT cannon. Sirius didn't die from the killing curse (Bellatrix' curse is actually described as red in the books, not green) and this incorrect information should be removed straight away.

Perhaps we should include this anyway and have an asterisk like we have for Molly Weasley's killing of Bellatrix. Valley2city 23:43, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

Some ignorant person said that Molly used the Killing on Bella, but this is not true. There are other ways of killing. Bella did die, but not of Avada Kedavra. Basketball110 15:08, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

Removal of two victims of the Avada Kedavra Curse

I removed the second mentioning of Harry Potter and Lord Voldemort each because Voldemort's entry was plain wrong, and both were redundant as each individual's encounter of being hit with the curse again is recorded in the table already.--Problematik 04:00, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

Pettigrew

Where is there any evidence that his killing of twelve Muggles was with the AK curse? We're told he killed them all with one curse, and everything else we know about AK indicates that it's cast in a particular direction, not at everyone in an area. As they were Muggles, if he cast a spell that caused an explosion it's likely that would have killed them. 213.249.135.41 20:26, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

Sirius was accused of this, but are we sure that this actually happened? Basketball110 15:09, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

What is this?

The list of victims appears to have no order. I suggest chronological placement from when they happened (in the fictional Harry Potter universe. So the death of Tom Riddle Senior would be first on the Avada Kedavra list). Also, remember that Gellert Grindlewald performed the Cruciatus Curse on Aberforth Dumbledore.

A spider?

well...a spider is included as a victim of the killing curse...but actually the impersonated Mad-Eye has also performed the other two unforgivable curses on two other spiders...

However I think this victim is so insignificant that I cannot decide whether it is better to add "a spider" to both the other two curses' victims, or to delete this victim from the victim of the killing curse.

IMO leave it in. It got hit with AK, so it counts. just IMO--Problematik 19:11, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

Pronounciation Again.

Is there any chance we can change the simple (non IPA) pronounciation for the killing curse to something that better fits with both American and Commonwealth English pronounciation?

If you're in America, the "vaw" and "daw" in "UH-vaw-DUH KEH-daw-VRUH" are pronounced as the curse is pronounced in the movies and so forth, but for those of us in England, Australia etc, "vaw" and "daw" rhyme with "ore". I think we can agree it isn't pronounced "UH-vore-DUH" etc.

Wouldn't "UH-vah-DUH KEH-dah-VRUH" satisfy both accented pronounciations?70.189.213.149 12:01, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

Yes it would, I changed it but someone has changed it back. "Vaw" is most definitely wrong.

Why don't we just use the Aramaic pronunciation as the standard? Of course, then again, you have so many different dialects in Aramaic that we would be having the same discussion over which Aramaic variant to use... Valley2city 23:21, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

• Here again we run into rhotic versus arhotic dialects of English. Anthony Appleyard 11:48, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

Molly Weasley vs Bellatrix Lestrange

Though the name of the curse that killed the female Death Eater is not told explicitly, it is likely that Molly used the AK. Both women were fighting to kill, and Lestrange dropped dead after being struck in the chest. In any case, Molly Weasley certainly "meant" it, for she furiously defended her one daughter, being upset after Fred's misfortune, not to mention Bellatrix making fun at her. Should we write down B. Lestrange in the "known victims of the AK" table?

No. Basketball110 15:10, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

Dumbldore's sister?

Didn't Dumbledore's sister get struck by a killing curse during the time that Arberforth, Albus, and Grindlewald were dueling? I can't remember, and if she did, should she be added to the list? --VorangorTheDemon 04:05, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

It was left deliberately unknown; Albus Dumbledore never recovered from that particular duel with himself, Grindlewald, and Aberforth, and always feared he killed his sister. What is known is that there were plenty of spells bouncing around as well as Ariana's uncontrolled magic. Rowlings has stated that Dumbledore's boggart is Ariana's corpse, and what he sees in the Mirror of Erised is his family, all alive and happy together. Dumbledore spent his life filled with guilt. He probably sees Harry, who while not as magically talented as himself, as a younger, uncorrupted version of what he aspired to. Jclinard 11:46, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

some more victims:

The 5 muggles mentioned in book 7 during potterwatch aren't listed in the Avada Kedavra victims list. And Hedwig isn't known to have been killed by Lord Voldemort, and as long as animals are listed, Bellatrix killed a fox in book 6 while visiting Snape, and Crouch kills a couple of spiders in book 4. And Voldemort kills a room full of people and goblins when he finds out Bellatrix's vault was broken into. Beast of traal T C 22:38, 7 August 2007 (UTC) Beast of traal

Notability Tag

I added the notability tag to as I believe that there is no evidence within the page that the topic meets the notability guidelines set out in WP:NN and WP:FICT. There is only one indepednet secondary source given on the page and that is only to give a definiton of a word. It may well be that notability can be established but I don't think there is anything wrong with having the tag in place until it is. [[Guest9999 22:09, 24 August 2007 (UTC)]]

Are there 'forgivable curses'?

Such as giving someone extreme pleasure or bringing them back from the dead...?

-G 23:50, 5 September 2007 User:134.117.158.83

True resurrection has been stated several times to be completely impossible. There is a spell for making someone happy, but it's a Charm. These Curses are Unforgivable because their uses are purely malicious and are legally left unforgiven (each will result in a lifetime term in Azkaban). There's no "forgivable curses," just spells that aren't felonious.—Ｌｏｖｅはドコ？ (talk • contribs) 05:14, 9 September 2007 (UTC)

Merger to Spells of Harry Potter article

This article asserts no notability of the topic, has no out of universe references, such as the unforgivable curses occuring in popular culture, or a developed discussion of how Rowling came up with the curses, here influences, and so forth. As this information probably doesn't exist, it would be best to merge it into the article that deals with all the spells she came up with, and have one well written complete article instead of two unreferenced and thin articles. Judgesurreal777 06:56, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

Proposites

I have a propositions:

I think: The spells in Harry Potter world, must in seperate article, because I want forfend wanton commotion, and I want, sort order in spell. I may help in sort odder in spells. Best regars Alden(Sharon boyfriend) or talk 22:01, 28 December 2007 (UTC).

Rufus

Can we say that Voldy killed Scrimegour by means of the Killing Curse? Basketball110 15:13, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

Frederick

Fred was killed by an explosion, right? I took out his death by Avada Kedavra. If you disagree, tell here, or fix it. Basketball110 22:43, 19 January 2008 (UTC)

Three kinds of Cruciatus

I was surprised to finde these lines in the article:

There are three types of this spell. One focuses on muscles. This requires a "Swish-and Stab" motion with one's wand. Another focuses on the bones. This requires a "Zig-Zag and Poke" motion with the wand. Finally, there is one focusing on the nervous system. This requires an "Up, Down, and Circle" motion

I don't know if J.K.Rowiling says this somewhere, so I'll just leave that lines where I found them, but I really don't think they're true. So, if you know certainly that they're false, please remove them! Thanks, 87.24.15.6 (talk) 11:42, 13 February 2008 (UTC) (--Hades87-- sorry I didn't log in)

Looks like nonsense to me. Out they go. faithless (^speak) 11:55, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

Merge proposal

As is it well-known, this article does not meet the Notability criteria at all. In the WikiProject HP, this page was never considered to be kept with the Notability issues that have been taking place. Much more important issues in the HP books have been already merged (characters like Lupin, McGonagall or Umbridge, the blood purity, all the Hogwarts layout and locations, lots of lists and families, etc.) This article should be merged into the Spells in Harry Potter without those Wikitables with useless information about the times each curse has been used. If so, then we should include those tables into each curse and spell that has appeared in the series (expeliarmus, stupefy, sectumsempra, etc.) --Lord Opeth (talk) 18:30, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

It's been 5 days since the proposal was posted. I will go ahead after 3 more days if there is no opposition. General information regarding the UC is already covered in Magic. The 3 curses are already listed in the Spells with the description and etymology. --Lord Opeth (talk) 21:10, 17 April 2008 (UTC)