Talk:Union for the Homeland

Fascism

Fascism should be included in the lead and the list of ideologies. It is well known that Peron and Peronism was highly inspired by Mussolini and fascist Italy, and this information is being removed or hidden. Pedantic Aristotle (talk) 23:38, 3 November 2023 (UTC)

Then that content or discussions regarding it belong on the page about Peronism, not here. HapHaxion _{(talk / contribs)} 19:56, 6 November 2023 (UTC)

It is already included in the article about Peronism, the discussion here is whether this fairly important piece of information should be included in this article as well. Not sure why some are insisting it should be kept hidden or obfuscated? Pedantic Aristotle (talk) 20:02, 6 November 2023 (UTC)

@Lord_Maximoff please explain your revert here. Union for the Homeland is led by the Peronists, who belong to a branch of fascism. In some cases I've seen it called left-wing fascism, but it is nonetheless based on fascist ideology. Pedantic Aristotle (talk) 20:50, 6 November 2023 (UTC)

@Pedantic Aristotle: if it is already included in the Peronism article then that is sufficient. We cannot go around inserting possible individual components of an ideology when one term will do, especially if it contains several components (as it would make articles unnecessarily long and unwieldy). Further explanation can be done on the movement or ideology's article. HapHaxion _{(talk / contribs)} 21:21, 6 November 2023 (UTC)

Well, if you compare the political opposition, it is categorized into many constituent parts, so this does not seem consistently applied; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/La_Libertad_Avanza

As most people are not familiar with Peronism, it seems natural to include the more commonly known ideologies it is based on. I think people are reverting the fascism label, because they assume it is incorrect, but I have not seen anyone actually dispute it. Peronism has gone through various iterations of fascism, but the core elements are very much there. The more recent iteration with Sergio Massa is bringing it closer to its origins, as Kirchnerism included more socialist elements.

As the coalitions in Argentina are fluctuating, and does not have a fixed definition or duration, you will not find sources that comment on the coalitions specifically. The Union for the Homeland is a Peronist coalition including fascist and communist parties, and was formed only a few months ago. You will not have any academic papers describing it directly, because the definition comes from its constituent parts. Should we include sources from the constituents then to describe it as fascist? How about the 2018 book by Montes de Oca? https://www.google.no/books/edition/El_fascismo_argentino/G_hjDwAAQBAJ Pedantic Aristotle (talk) 22:57, 6 November 2023 (UTC)

Same argument as made at Renewal Front - in short, we include fascism here if sources specifically call them fascist. We don't include it just because they're Peronist. — Czello ^(music) 20:46, 7 November 2023 (UTC)

The Montes de Oca book talks about this in depth, including how modern Peronism is based on fascism. As there are many notable sources discussing how modern Peronism is fascist, it seems notable and a good reason to include it in the article. It would not make sense for any sources to mention coalitions by name, as they come and go frequently, they are not long term or constant as in other countries. The wording could perhaps be evaluated, to clarify that the coalition consists of parties such and such, as the coalition by itself does not have any single ideology. Pedantic Aristotle (talk) 18:57, 9 November 2023 (UTC)