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Talk:United Nations Special Committee on Palestine

Latest comment: 2 months ago by JW1031 in topic Unsourced claims about Arab reaction to UNSCOP including death threats
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Correction

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Latest comment: 16 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

The UN supplied text at http://domino.un.org/UNISPAL.NSF/0080ef30efce525585256c38006eacae/2180cd51d452bccd85256e690056a2e4!OpenDocument contains a few OCR errors:

The Mandatory Poorer shall use its best endeavours to ensure that an area situated in the territory of the Jewish State, including a seaport and hinterland adequate to provide facilities for a substantial integration, shall be evacuated at the earliest possible date and in any event not later than 1 February 1948.

The actual text reads:

The mandatory Power shall use its best endeavours to ensure that an area situated in the territory of the Jewish State, including a seaport and hinterland adequate to provide facilities for a substantial immigration, shall be evacuated at the earliest possible date and in any event not later than 1 February 1948.

I changed the links to provide a text version via the Avalon Project and a copy of the original in a UN-supplied .pdf file harlan (talk) 02:17, 9 July 2008 (UTC)Reply


Looking for a map

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Latest comment: 16 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

Where can I find a map of the two component parts (Jewish and Arab) of the federal state proposed by Iran, India, and Yugoslavia? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.23.115.144 (talk) 02:44, 2 October 2008 (UTC)Reply

Elad Ben-Dror

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Latest comment: 12 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

This NYT article [1] has some interesting perspectives for his topic. It says that Elad Ben-Dror is publishing a book on the topic. Oncenawhile (talk) 18:12, 27 May 2012 (UTC)Reply

Creation of the Special Committee

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Latest comment: 10 years ago5 comments2 people in discussion
1 Two pro-soviet slavs(Czechoslovakia,Yugoslavia),. Does slavs mean slaves or states?
2 Any number of comments can be made about the composition of the Committee, none from Africa, none from east Asia.
There should be a citation on why certain countries were selected, otherwise delete paragraph. Trahelliven (talk) 18:13, 29 January 2014 (UTC)Reply
1. Slavs means Slavs ;)
2. Its not a comment about, its a breakdown of the Committee composition. IMO it should be expanded further and sourced e.g. I think worth noting that they were chosen from "neutral" states and explain that geopolitical consideration based on that time period(including UN membership iirc).--PLNR (talk) 18:52, 29 January 2014 (UTC)Reply
1 India is not a Muslim country: it is mostly Hindu. By a coincidence, the very day that India became independent was the day of the decision to create the Committee, 15 August 1947: it remained part of the British Empire with a governor-general representing the Queen - see Louis Mountbatten, 1st Earl Mountbatten of Burma.
2 The phrase with consideration to balance geopolitical division indicates there was a deliberate policy of trying to balance the committee. Trahelliven (talk) 21:48, 29 January 2014 (UTC)Reply
1. The decision to created the Committee was on 15 May 1947, read your article ;) but I agree that the current wording is prejudicial. I'll revert until something better can be found\sourced.
2. If by "deliberate policy" you mean that they given consideration to balance and geopolitics then yes. Starting with exclusion of the Mandatory as an interested party, then exclusion of Great Powers to avoid even appearance of impartiality(although without doubt political consideration in post ww2 allies\soviet era was an influence) and you can see this directly noted in the commission transcript among the many different compositions votes, and amendments they had e.g. Failed Polish proposal: "composed of eleven members, including the five permanent members of the Security Council. The other six members would be elected on the basis of the best geographical distribution and in accordance with the requirements of the task before the special committee."--PLNR (talk) 02:42, 30 January 2014 (UTC)Reply

I have just realised that India was an original member of the United Nations even before it became independent on 15 August 1947 [[2]]. The extent (if at all) to which the Indian representative on the Committee acted on the instructions of the British government would make an interesting study. In any event, in any discussion on the composition of the Committee that India was not independent until 15 August deserves a mention.Trahelliven (talk) 10:48, 30 January 2014 (UTC)Reply

Wikipedia or Wikisource?

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Latest comment: 10 years ago14 comments2 people in discussion

Compared to an older revision which included the report recommendation and comments on them. The current variant is basically a huge copy&paste from the report, that for the most part look like a Table contents, I wonder if any one who was looking for information on the report on Wikipedia(not Wikisource) ever found this entry helpful.--PLNR (talk) 18:23, 29 January 2014 (UTC)Reply

The main problem with the older version was that it did not include the reference to the minority report of the representatives of India, Iran, and Yugoslavia, recommending the creation of the The Independent State of Palestine. Trahelliven (talk) 00:26, 31 January 2014 (UTC)Reply


Recommendation Section suggestion

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We need a summary not a copy&paste document. I suggest to replace the Full text of the report which would be provided for in Wikisource, with summary. Specific suggestions:

Replace:

RECOMMENDATION I. TERMINATION OF THE MANDATE
It is recommended that The Mandate for Palestine shall be terminated at the earliest practicable date.
RECOMMENDATION II. INDEPENDENCE
Independence shall be granted in Palestine at the earliest practicable date.

With:

The Mandate for Palestine shall be terminated and Independence shall be granted in Palestine at the earliest practicable date.

Replace:

RECOMMENDATIONS III. TRANSITIONAL PERIOD
There shall be a transitional period preceding the grant of independence in Palestine which shall be as short as possible, consistent with the achievement of the preparations and conditions essential to independence.
RECOMMENDATION IV. UNITED NATIONS RESPONSIBILITY DURING THE TRANSITIONAL PERIOD)
During the transitional period the authority entrusted with the task of administering Palestine and preparing it for independence shall be responsible to the United Nations.

With:

There shall be a short as possible transitional period preceding the grant of independence in Palestine, during which the authority entrusted with the task of administering Palestine shall be responsible to the United Nations.

Replace:

RECOMMENDATION V. HOLY PLACES AND RELIGIOUS INTERESTS
A. The sacred character of the Holy Places shall be preserved and access to the Holy Places for purposes of worship and pilgrimage shall be ensured in accordance with existing rights, in recognition of the proper interest of millions of Christians, Jews and Moslems abroad as well as the residents of Palestine in the care of sites and buildings associated with the origin and history of their faiths.
B. Existing rights in Palestine of the several religious communities shall be neither impaired nor denied, in view of the fact that their maintenance is essential for religious peace in Palestine under conditions of independence.
C. An adequate system shall be devised to settle impartially disputes involving religious rights as an essential factor in maintaining religious peace, taking into account the fact that during the Mandate such disputes have been settled by the Government itself, which acted as an arbiter and enjoyed the necessary authority and power to enforce its decisions.
D. Specific stipulations concerning Holy Places, religious buildings or sites and the rights of religious communities shall be inserted in the constitution or constitutions of any independent Palestinian State or States which may be created.

With:

The sacred character of the Holy Places and the rights of religious communities shall be preserved and stipulations concerning them inserted in the constitution of any State or States which may be created, and that an system should be devised to settle any disputes involving religious rights.

Replace:

RECOMMENDATION VI. JEWISH DISPLACED PERSONS
The General Assembly undertake immediately the initiation and execution of an international arrangement whereby the problem of the distressed European Jews, of whom approximately 250,000 are in assembly centers, will be dealt with as a matter of extreme urgency for the alleviation of their plight and of the Palestine problem.

With: The General Assembly should make arrangement to see that the problem if distressed European Jews will be dealt with as a matter of extreme urgency as to alleviate their plight and of the Palestine problem.

Replace:

RECOMMENDATIONS VII. DEMOCRATIC PRINCIPLES AND PROTECTION OF MINORITIES
In view of the fact that independence is to be granted in Palestine on the recommendation and under the auspices of the United Nations, it is a proper and an important concern of the United Nations that the constitution or other fundamental law as well as the political structure of the new State or States shall be basically democratic, i.e., representative, in character, and that this shall be a prior condition to the grant of independence. In this regard, the constitution or other fundamental law of the new State or States shall include specific guarantees respecting -
A. Human rights and fundamental freedoms, including freedom of worship and conscience, speech, press and assemblage, the rights of organized labor, freedom of movement,' freedom from arbitrary searches and seizures, and rights of personal property; and
B. Full protection for the rights and interests of minorities, including the protection of the linguistic, religious and ethnic rights of the peoples and respect for their cultures, and full equality of all citizens with regard to political, civil and religious matters.

With: DEMOCRATIC PRINCIPLES AND PROTECTION OF MINORITIES

The constitution or other fundamental law as well as the political structure of the new State or States shall be basically democratic and should include guarantees for the respect of human rights and fundamental freedoms and for the protection of rights and interests of minorities.


Before I proceed, any objection to the change the section structure I outlined above?(not specific wording)--PLNR (talk) 08:13, 30 January 2014 (UTC)Reply

1 I take the responsibility for the current body of the text. The Report of the Committee is long and complicated. The Headings of the Report are in Bold and Capitals followed by the Recommendation in Italics. Anyone reading the Wikipedia article can quickly go to relevant section of the complete Report itself [3] by the use of the FIND function on his/her computer. To find the relevant part of the Report from a summary of the Recommendation could be more difficult. Editors might like to test both.
2 I challenge anyone to summarise the Recommendations unchallenged. Trahelliven (talk) 20:52, 30 January 2014 (UTC) Trahelliven (talk) 20:17, 31 January 2014 (UTC)Reply
This what Wikisource is for, we can include several paragraphs with the title as original text, but we aslo need a summary of the report. If challenges are made, they would be resolved through standard Wikipedia policies and supporting WP:RS like everywhere else, still we need to start somewhere unless maybe you have some Public domain WP:RS summary?--PLNR (talk) 21:58, 30 January 2014 (UTC)Reply
Have fun!. Trahelliven (talk) 22:26, 30 January 2014 (UTC)Reply
In respect of RECOMMENDATION IV. UNITED NATIONS RESPONSIBILITY DURING THE TRANSITIONAL PERIOD), you suggest the following replacement:-
There shall be a short as possible transitional period preceding the grant of independence in Palestine, during which the United Nations shall be responsible for administering Palestine..
If you read RECOMMENDATION IV itself, the introductory wording is During the transitional period the authority entrusted with the task of administering Palestine and preparing it for independence shall be responsible to the United Nations.
In other words, it is the authority which is to administer Palestine, not the United Nations itself.
You will find in the Report itself many references to the authority.
Your suggestion simply does not reflect the Report. Trahelliven (talk) 05:29, 31 January 2014 (UTC)Reply
Indeed, I created the summary based on copy&paste from the article, which had a mixup. fixed now, using the original text.--PLNR (talk) 06:23, 31 January 2014 (UTC)Reply
RECOMMENDATIONS III. TRANSITIONAL PERIOD
RECOMMENDATION IV. UNITED NATIONS RESPONSIBILITY DURING THE TRANSITIONAL PERIOD
Below is a better replacement but unnecessary. Are you intending to retain the two headings?
There shall be a short as possible a transitional period preceding the grant of independence in Palestine, during which the authority entrusted with the task of administering Palestine and preparing it for independence shall be responsible to the United Nations. Trahelliven (talk) 17:52, 31 January 2014 (UTC)Reply
RECOMMENDATION V. HOLY PLACES AND RELIGIOUS INTERESTS
A. The sacred character of the Holy Places shall be preserved and access to the Holy Places for purposes of worship and pilgrimage shall be ensured in accordance with existing rights, in recognition of the proper interest of millions of Christians, Jews and Moslems abroad as well as the residents of Palestine in the care of sites and buildings associated with the origin and history of their faiths.
At the very least, access to the Holy Places should be included in the summary. Trahelliven (talk) 20:34, 31 January 2014 (UTC)Reply
I didn't used 'access to the Holy Places' because I thought it is already implied, just as it is with 'freedom of religion'. But if you feel it is necessary you can add it. Personally, I would prefer we move this to the article and discuss here only if there is something that we disagree about. That is if you agree that something like this:
  • The Mandate for Palestine shall be terminated and Independence shall be granted in Palestine at the earliest practicable date.(I and II)
  • There shall be a short as possible a transitional period preceding the grant of independence in Palestine, during which the authority entrusted with the task of administering Palestine and preparing it for independence shall be responsible to the United Nations.(III and IV)
  • The sacred character of the Holy Places and the rights of religious communities shall be preserved and stipulations concerning them inserted in the constitution of any State or States which may be created, and that an system should be devised to settle any disputes involving religious rights.(V)
  • The General Assembly should make arrangement to see that the problem if distressed European Jews will be dealt with as a matter of extreme urgency as to alleviate their plight and of the Palestine problem.(VI)
  • The constitution or other fundamental law as well as the political structure of the new State or States shall be basically democratic and should include guarantees for the respect of human rights and fundamental freedoms and for the protection of rights and interests of minorities.(VII)

would be preferable to what we have.--PLNR (talk) 09:39, 1 February 2014 (UTC)Reply

It would not be preferable. You would save only a little space and we could argue indefinitely whether the summaries were accurate. Putting in the heading in full enables a reader to find the section in the Report by using the FIND function on the computer. Trahelliven (talk) 20:30, 2 February 2014 (UTC)Reply
I think a lot of good work was put in the article and attempt to make it precise, what I suggest is not about saving space, it is about being informative to our readers and saving their time avoiding needless repetition. A person who is familiar with the text will be using the linked wikisource:United Nations Special Committee on Palestine Report/Chapter V or some other full text source, while a person who comes here to get an idea what the Committee recommendation were about is looking for a concise summary such as this, our variant is neither here nor there... Anyway, if you don't want to work with me on this, I won't push this major change and leave it for further community comment.--PLNR (talk) 22:54, 2 February 2014 (UTC)Reply

I have not gone through the geocities summary, but I have noticed the website omitted Australia as a menber of the majority. Trahelliven (talk) 02:25, 3 February 2014 (UTC)Reply

Assessment comment

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Latest comment: 16 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:United Nations Special Committee on Palestine/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.

Comment(s)Press [show] to view →
The rating of the article should be increased to at least mid importance:-

October 2. Dr Able Hillel Silver, Chairman of the American Section of the Jewish Agency makes the case for a Jewish State to the Ad Hoc committee on Palestine. Jewish Agency announces acceptance of 10 of the eleven unanimous recommendations of the UN partition plan and rejection of the minority report. Of the Majority report (the Partition Plan areas) Dr Able Hillel Silver vacillates saying that he was prepared to “recommend to the Jewish people acceptance subject to further discussion of the constitutional and territorial provisions”. http://domino.un.org/unispal.nsf/9a798adbf322aff38525617b006d88d7/a62f2fe8807066038525691b00658f74/$FILE/gapal04.pdf http://www.jafi.org.il/education/jafi75/timeline3h.html

The Jewish Agency contrary to the usual Historiography did not accept the Partition plan.

Constitutionally means rejection of the Transition Government of the United Nations Palestine Commission and Territorially means the area the two fundamental parts to the Partition Plan.Ashley kennedy3 (talk) 01:34, 8 June 2008 (UTC)Reply

Last edited at 01:34, 8 June 2008 (UTC). Substituted at 09:35, 30 April 2016 (UTC)

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Latest comment: 7 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

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Latest comment: 3 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

Several of the External links are broken. Mcljlm (talk) 12:48, 1 November 2021 (UTC)Reply

Unsourced claims about Arab reaction to UNSCOP including death threats

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Latest comment: 2 months ago1 comment1 person in discussion

> It announced a one-day general strike to protest its arrival, and Arab opposition figures were threatened with death if they spoke to UNSCOP. The Arab public was warned against making any contact whatsoever with UNSCOP and Arab journalists were prohibited from covering their visit.

This paragraph (section: 'Work of the committee') was added in this revision from 2015: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=United_Nations_Special_Committee_on_Palestine&diff=prev&oldid=671201051 but is unsupported by the accompanying source.

My instinct is that an unsupported claim this strong/extreme should be removed, or at least have [citation needed] added. Equally, if anyone is aware of a reliable source attesting to this claim it can be supported properly. I would welcome discussion on this point and the best way to proceed; this has been present, apparently undetected, on this page for 9 years which seems extremely unfortunate. JW1031 (talk) 11:44, 2 September 2024 (UTC)Reply

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