Talk:Utah Utes

Big Seven

this redirect to the old Big 8 Conference which Utah was never a member of can someone provide the "offical" name of the conference this is supposed to mean Smith03 05:07, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

Utah was a member of the Big 7 Conference from 1938-1947. However, there is no wikipedia page for this Conference. I'm not sure why someone redirected it to the Bog 8.CincyUte 13:55, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

Was the Big Seven also known as something else such as Mountain States Conference or Skyline? Smith03 15:51, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

No; the Big Seven, Mountain States COnference, and Skyline Conference were all different Conferences. I've found the best sources for this information are Media Guides. You can find them on each University's website. CincyUte 15:03, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

pre 1927 stadium

does anyone have any info about were the football team played before 1927? Smith03 01:28, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

They played at Cummings Field from at least 1905 to 1927.CincyUte 15:03, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

Gymnastics

Why is there nothing on here about gymnastics? It is on the university page and it is the most successful of all the sports at the U of U by far. Basketball has a section and it has only won 1 national championship, football has one and it never has won a national championship and neither has womens basketball but it has a section. The Utah Gymnastics squad has won 9 national championships thus far. Omegablackbelt (talk) 17:02, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

You are looking in the wrong place. The gymastics teams at the University of Utah is known as the red Rocks, not the Utes. Seacrh for Utah Red Rocks and you will find them. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.147.148.91 (talk) 21:24, 10 September 2010 (UTC)

Image copyright problem with Image:Utah Utes logo.png

The image Image:Utah Utes logo.png is used in this article under a claim of fair use, but it does not have an adequate explanation for why it meets the requirements for such images when used here. In particular, for each page the image is used on, it must have an explanation linking to that page which explains why it needs to be used on that page. Please check

This entire web page needs to be reworked. The reason why is that in 1996 the University of Utah mascot was replaced by Swoop, a Red-Tailed Hawk. This was done with permission of the Ute tribe. I don't know how that affects everything here but massive changes may need to be made. Any iconography that has something other than Swoop will need to have permission from the Native American Ute tribe unless University of Utah was given permission by the Ute tribe to use any other images they are using. Personally, I think it would be a wise idea to make any changes by working with Ute tribe to make sure we preserve a cordial friendly relationship. You need to remember that the state of Utah was given its name because of the Ute tribe. hhhobbit (talk) 07:48, 21 December 2019 (UTC)

• That there is a non-free use rationale on the image's description page for the use in this article.
• That this article is linked to from the image description page.

This is an automated notice by FairuseBot. For assistance on the image use policy, see Wikipedia:Media copyright questions. --03:23, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

Moving/deleting tables

In the football section there are two tables, both of which are reproduced exactly on the main Utah football page. Perhaps we should delete them from this page. For men's basketball, perhaps we should move the conference championships table and retired jerseys table to the Utah basketball page. Moving and deleting these tables would free up some space to take about Utah traditions and the Utah mascot. What do people think? Ute in DC (talk) 17:36, 19 December 2008 (UTC)

No one else has objected so I'm deleting some tables. —Ute in DC (talk) 21:54, 19 June 2012 (UTC)

External links modified

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External links modified

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Redskins to Utes

Wiki uses era-correct nicknames in articles. Utah was the "Reskins" prior to the "Utes."

• "Originally referred to as the Redskins, the University of Utah officially adopted the nickname Utes for its athletic teams in 1972."utahutes.com and "It’s only a mascot … that has already been changed once (1972). When Utah switched from Redskins to Utes" deseret.com
• There is 1934 football usage of Redskins [1] and [2]
• And 1926 swimming usage of Redskins [3]
• It's unclear if Redskins usage begins immediately in 1892, such as 1892 Utah Utes football team, or sometime later. Both nickname and lack of any nickname are seen in early year college athletics articles.

Based on above, I am moving all pre-1972 Utah articles to "19XX Utah Redskins <sport>" format which is 1 basketball article and 80 football articles, see Category:Utah Utes seasons. Updates to CFB conferences standing templates (to bypass redirect) will follow that. UW Dawgs (talk) 21:46, 12 November 2019 (UTC)

@UW Dawgs: The "official" name is not the only relevant inquiry. Per WP:COMMONNAME, the most relevant inquiry is what naming was most common. Have you done searches to determine when Utes overcame Redskins as the most common name? Cbl62 (talk) 22:34, 12 November 2019 (UTC)

Yes, per site:newspapers.com "utah redskins" (and such), where matches are extensive and correspond to 1972 demarcation. UW Dawgs (talk) 22:37, 12 November 2019 (UTC)

But in my experience, Utes was pretty common in older years. For example, some quick sample searches:

• 1920 - 109 hits for "Utah Utes", 2 for "Utah Redskins"
• 1925 - 74 hits for "Utah Utes", 8 for "Utah Redskins"
• 1927 - 138 hits for "Utah Utes", 37 for "Utah Redskins"
• 1929 - 167 hits for "Utah Utes", 66 for "Utah Redskins"
• 1931 - 173 hits for "Utah Utes", 140 for "Utah Redskins"
• 1932 - 222 hits for "Utah Utes", 126 for "Utah Redskins"
• 1933 - 278 hits for "Utah Utes", 152 for "Utah Redskins"

I would suggest holding off on the mass moves until we do a more careful review and get consensus. Cbl62 (talk) 22:44, 12 November 2019 (UTC)

• First, I find no support for the proposition that the Utah football team was referred to commonly as the "redskins" prior to the 1920s. Second, my review suggests that "redskins" did not become the common name for the "University of Utah" football team until some time in the 1940s. The "redskins" nickname began to develop some traction in the mid-1920s, but "utes" appears to have been the more common name during the 1920s and 1930s. Indeed, the home stadium was known as "Ute Stadium" (not as "Redskin Stadium") during this time. Here is a chart showing some of what I found (searches limited to Utah newspaper sources):

Year	"utes" & football	examples	"redskins" & football	examples
1923	391	[4]	17
1924	562	[5]	16
1925	709	[6]	88	[7]
1926	874	[8]	231
1927	1,014	[9]	280
1928	1,291	[10]	363
1929	1,342	[11]	377
1930	1,367	[12]	469
1931	1,436	[13]	444
1932	1,194	[14]	476
1933	1,028	[15]	504	[16]
1934	1,180	[17]	587	[18]
1935	1,273	[19]	640	[20]
1936	1,234	[21]	625	[22]
1937	947	[23]	677	[24]
1938	1,176	[25]	870	[26]
1939	1,148	[27]	805	[28]

Based on the foregoing, the recent move of the Utah football season articles, at least for years prior to the 1940s, appears to be in error. I therefore intend to (a) revert the 1920s and 1930s articles to the status quo, and (b) move the pre-1920s articles to "19xx University of Utah football team". If there is any disagreement with this, please let me know. Cbl62 (talk) 19:20, 13 November 2019 (UTC)

What is the explicit source and methodology for your two columns of counts? I observe AP and UPI regularly using "Utah Redskins" in both headlines and articles, and both terms are in regular usage through decades. The article names might need a different in some years, but the lede should also reflect both names in many years (MOS:BOLDSYN). UW Dawgs (talk) 20:02, 13 November 2019 (UTC)

Searches are as noted in the columns. Search was limited to sources in the state of Utah to limit false positives for things such as Washington Redskins and the Haskell teams which were also sometimes referred to as "redskins". The naming of the stadium as "Ute Stadium" (not "Redskin Stadium") also weighs significantly. I found no sources in the earliest decades (1890s to 1900s) referring to the team as "redskins". If you want to add "sometimes also known as the 'Redskins'" to the lede for the 1920s and 1930s articles, that would be fine. But then shouldn't we also do the same for the 1940s - 1960s (i.e., "sometimes also known as the 'Utes'")? Cbl62 (talk) 00:09, 14 November 2019 (UTC)

"Ute Stadium" was built opened in 1927 and was commonly known as such through at least the 1930s. See 1927, 1928, 1929, 1934, 1936, 1939. Cbl62 (talk) 00:53, 14 November 2019 (UTC)

"YYYY" "Utah Redskins" "football"	Match count	"YYYY" "Utah Utes" "football"	Match count
"1895" "Utah Redskins" "football"	42[29]	"1895" "Utah Utes" "football"	9[30]
"1905" "Utah Redskins" "football"	59[31]	"1905" "Utah Utes" "football"	31[32]
"1915" "Utah Redskins" "football"	136[33]	"1915" "Utah Utes" "football"	40[34]
"1925" "Utah Redskins" "football"	144[35]	"1925" "Utah Utes" "football"	58[36]
"1935" "Utah Redskins" "football"	319[37]	"1935" "Utah Utes" "football"	94[38]
"1945" "Utah Redskins" "football"	384[39]	"1945" "Utah Utes" "football"	145[40]
"1955" "Utah Redskins" "football"	573[41]	"1955" "Utah Utes" "football"	219[42]
"1965" "Utah Redskins" "football"	331[43]	"1965" "Utah Utes" "football"	87[44]
"1971" "Utah Redskins" "football"	207[45]	"1971" "Utah Utes" "football"	140[46]
"1972" "Utah Redskins" "football"	143[47]	"1972" "Utah Utes" "football"	275[48]
"1973" "Utah Redskins" "football"	100[49]	"1973" "Utah Utes" "football"	180[50]
"1975" "Utah Redskins" "football"	25[51]	"1975" "Utah Utes" "football"	138[52]

     Note, 1895 to 1925 results rows are systemically inaccurate, in that the year string isn't really filtering re Newspapers.com's available content. UW Dawgs (talk) 03:59, 14 November 2019 (UTC)

• To accurately gauge contemporary usage, you need to search with explicit year restrictions. Your google searches are not doing that. For example, your 1895, 1905, and 1915 google searches (here, here, and here) are pulling articles from years other than 1895, 1905, and 1915. When I search in the actual Newspapers.com database for ("utah redskins" & football), with a date range from 1890-1924, I pulled only two hits (here), both of which were false positives. So, I find exactly zero evidence that the University of Utah football teams were referred to as the "redskins" prior to the 1920s. In contrast, an identical search but with ("utah utes" & football) pulls 244 hits. See results. Cbl62 (talk) 04:39, 14 November 2019 (UTC)

• Yes, as I explicitly stated that "1895 to 1925 results rows are systemically inaccurate...". UW Dawgs (talk) 04:43, 14 November 2019 (UTC)

Exactly. So for accurate data, one needs to go into the database and use explicit date restrictions. Cbl62 (talk) 04:55, 14 November 2019 (UTC)

Prior to 1920, I don't see evidence that either "Utes" or "Redskins" was in common usage. Thus, my suggestion above to move the pre-1920s articles to "19xx University of Utah football team". Cbl62 (talk) 14:11, 14 November 2019 (UTC)

Woah, how were all these moves done without a consensus first? Utah used to use the Redskins nickname, but the Utes nickname is older. I am moving this back until we at least reach a consensus. —Ute in DC (talk) 15:21, 16 November 2019 (UTC)

So, reverting page names was not as easy as I remember. Suffice it to say, Utah was absolutely referred to as the "Utes" before 1972. See Utonian yearbooks:

· 1968 Utonian Yearbook [53] [54] "The Ute underdogs threw a scare into the larger school..."

· 1965 Utonian Yearbook [55] "The Utes compiled a record of 9 wins and 2 loses"

· 1954 Utonian Yearbook [56] 2 mentions of "Utes" and 1 to "Utevill" no mentions of the word "Redskins."

· 1946 Utonian Yearbook [57] 2 mentions of "Redskins" but also 3 mentions of "Utes."

I just randomly perused the online collections of 4 yearbooks during the relevant period. I know there are many references to both "Redskins" and "Utes" throughout the Utonion Yearbooks, but I see no evidence that Redskins was more common. The two nicknames were used interchangeably and based on the stadium being called "Ute Stadium" I think "Utes" was actually the default, but that is harder to prove. Suffice it to say, I think that at least since 1925, all the pages should be "19XX Utah Utes football team" with a redirect from "19XX Utah Redskins football team" —Ute in DC (talk) 16:58, 16 November 2019 (UTC)

Older Newspaper articles are hit and miss, but as an example of newspapers switching back and forth between referring to Utah as both "Utes" and "Redskins" I invite posters to look at 1964 Liberty Bowl. There are about a dozen different newspaper articles about the game. Two of the headlines use the name "Utes" and there are plenty of references to "Utes" within those articles as well as references to "Redskins." It really seems that this name change was done too hastily and should be undone unless there is a consensus for change. —Ute in DC (talk) 17:19, 16 November 2019 (UTC)

@Ute in DC: @UW Dawgs: I have already reverted the articles from 1920-1940 to "Utah Utes". I also modified the move on the pre-1920 articles to reflect neither nickname; my searches find no support that either nickname was in common use prior to 1920. As for the articles from 1940-1971, I understand that Ute in DC suggests reverting the move until a fuller consensus is reached. I have no objection to that. Cbl62 (talk) 21:27, 21 November 2019 (UTC)

I now have full newspapers.com access, so I can review and refine the query. Note, the 26 twice-moved articles now without nicknames (Category:Utah Utes football seasons) presumably should omit "University of" per our existing conventions as there isn't anything unique to Utah in that regard. Ex. Category:Florida Gators football seasons (1906 Florida football team), Category:Idaho Vandals football seasons (1908 Idaho football team), Category:San Diego State Aztecs football seasons (1922 San Diego State football team), Category:Washington Huskies football seasons (1889 Washington football team), Category:Notre Dame Fighting Irish football seasons (1887 Notre Dame football team). UW Dawgs (talk) 02:14, 22 November 2019 (UTC)

My personal practice and preference has been to include the "University of"/"College" where the University/College name is also a state/major city name. Simply calling it the "Utah football team" with no mascot or other distinguishing characteristic creates risk of ambiguity which is obviated by inclusion of the "University of" designation. Another example of this is 1921 Detroit Junior College football team where omitting the "Junior College" risks ambiguity with the likes of University of Detroit and Detroit semipro football teams of the era. See also, e.g., 1909 University of New Mexico football team. "San Diego State" is of another ilk as the "State" part sufficiently disambiguates. In a case like 1916 Washington football team, I believe it would be a better practice to add "University of" to the title. Cbl62 (talk) 05:44, 22 November 2019 (UTC)