Talk:Valotte/GA1

GA Review

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Reviewer: Shaidar cuebiyar (talk · contribs) 02:57, 14 June 2013 (UTC)

Starting the review

I will be going through each of the criteria in order. I reserve the right to return to earlier comments/sections and revise/add to them until the review is finished. Unless otherwise indicated, maintain existing wikilinks and formatting. The review process should take about a week. I will allow an additional week for any requested changes to be made before making my decision.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 02:57, 14 June 2013 (UTC)

A good article is—

Criterion 1

1. Well-written:
1. the prose is clear, concise, and understandable to an appropriately broad audience; spelling and grammar are correct; and
2. it complies with the Manual of Style guidelines for lead sections, layout, words to watch, fiction, and list incorporation.

Infobox

1. Move genre ref to relevant section. If worried by other editors changing/challenging it, use a hidden note e.g. <!--Genre is Pop music according to Christagau reference, do not change without discussion on talkpage. -->
2. For label, only give first released version's label, other versions are given later.
3. Use Released = {{Start date|1984|10|15|df=y}}
4. Use Length = {{Duration|m=38|s=17}}
5. For singles, give dates of first issued version, later issued versions can be mentioned elsewhere. Don't use (UK) or (US) for version origin here.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 03:22, 14 June 2013 (UTC)

Lead

1. Genre needed in first line.
2. during February–August > from February to August
3. Does Ramone have any notable producer credits from before Lennon's album? If so, add one to three of them in brackets after his name.
4. At first mention use in the United States not US – which is OK subsequently. Likewise for United Kingdom/UK.
5. all of them having music videos produced for them > each had a music video made for them maintain wikilink.
6. Notable singles should be named and their charting specified e.g. top 10 or top 5, as applicable. For less notable singles, a mention with release month is sufficient here.
7. Awkward: The album itself peaked at, probably don't need 'itself' here.
8. Add a hard space number 17 (check wikicode).

    Done Best, yeepsi (Talk tonight) 12:14, 15 June 2013 (UTC)

9. Not well received? Needs some exemplifying comments and the critics/sources need to be named.
10. Lennon went on tour expand: where & till when?
11. Overall the Lead is a little short, given the length of the article.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 04:00, 14 June 2013 (UTC)

Background

1. I like to see the article's name mentioned somewhere early in each section.
2. Fix and hearing Lennon's songwriting skills for clarity, replace 'hearing'.
3. Fix half-sentence starting with Lennon also got signed to Make it more concise.
4. on 17 October 1983, probably don't need this phrase: we already know its a month later. Exact date is not particularly notable?
5. spent a 3 month stay > started a three-month stay
6. at a French château named Manor de Valotte in > at a French château, Manor de Valotte, in Keep wikilink, italics for foreign phrase? or at a French château, Manor de Valotte, in If not.
7. Second half of this ¶ is very confusing. From "About the songs," to end. It is unclear and seems contradictory.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 04:33, 14 June 2013 (UTC)

Recording and content

1. Too wordy: due to Lennon asking about availability of working with him, in January 1984, Try , in January 1984 Lennon had asked about his availability, Or similar.
2. Billy Joel? Surely a notable example that should be in the Lead?
3. Wordy: recordings up to that point. > previous recordings.
4. Delink Muscle Shoals, Alabama: already available at previous term if needed. Delink New York City: common term.
5. Location of last three studios can be combined and summarised, e.g. all three in New York City; instead of repeating the same location three times.
6. had recorded at The Hit Factory four years previously,
7. for sessions for his Double Fantasy album > on the album, Double Fantasy Keep wikilink and formatting.
8. his father's album, Imagine,
9. Lennon said it was a
10. Delink bass guitar: common term (in a music article).
11. Trim Lennon said that his girlfriend helped him expand the idea: > Lennon said that his girlfriend helped:
12. Trim "My girlfriend came up [...] and she said, 'Oh well, > "she said, 'Oh well,shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 06:15, 17 June 2013 (UTC)
13. Clarify drifting in space' [...] [I] worked > drifting in space' so I [...] worked
14. Shortly after the cover photo was taken
15. Goodbyes" was written,[14][9] Swap ref tab order, check other instances.
16. was offerred to Lennon by China Burton, as Burtonshaidar cuebiyar (talk) 05:39, 14 June 2013 (UTC)

     Done Best, yeepsi (Talk tonight) 13:35, 15 June 2013 (UTC)

17. What is the relevance of non-album B-sides to this article? Shouldn't this be in the A-sides article(s)?
18. Ramone had asked Julian if he felt "the ghosts?", Julian Avoid 'Julian' where possible.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 06:10, 17 June 2013 (UTC)

     Done Best, yeepsi (Talk tonight) 10:53, 17 June 2013 (UTC)

Release and aftermath

1. This is where you put alternate (but notable) release versions of the album & its singles (see comments above).
2. Again article title should be in first sentence.
3. Vary use of word "release" in its forms (8 times in ¶1, not counting subheading).
4. Footnotes 1 & 2 can be combined: they cover information on same single via same sources.
5. Use hard space: number 17 (see wikicode). Apply similar to other instances elsewhere.
6. on the Billboard 200 chart, > on the [[Billboard 200|''Billboard'' 200]] chart, MoS; apply similar elsewhere.
7. Delink telegram: common term.
8. Combine Footnotes 8 & 9. Do the same for other similar footnote pairs.
9. Music Express
10. Trim January 1985, the "Too Late for Goodbyes" single was released,
11. on March 13 by > on 13 March by English date format.
12. Delink setlist: common term (in music).shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 22:31, 14 June 2013 (UTC)

     Done Just going to work on expanding the lead, and I think that's all the current issues fixed. Best, yeepsi (Talk tonight) 14:12, 15 June 2013 (UTC)

13. , on Julian's behalf. > , on his behalf. No confusion exists, generally avoid 'Julian' where possible.
14. Producer Ramone and engineer Bradshaw Leigh, > Ramone and the album's engineer, Bradshaw Leigh, Neater, maintain wikilink.
15. both worked with Lennon on his next album, The Secret Value of Daydreaming (1986). Maintain wikilink & formatting.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 12:00, 16 June 2013 (UTC)

Critical reception

1. Delink: music critic.
2. Check spelling, outside of direct quotes, use British English, e.g. synthesisers.
3. Use of 'tacky' for contemporary conventions is not supported by source.

Track listing

1. Consider using Template:Track listing. Not compulsory for GA.
2. Any references for this section?

   I'm confused as to why a ref might be needed for a track listing? Best, yeepsi (Talk tonight) 12:50, 16 June 2013 (UTC)

   1. I'm thinking of songwriters, the article claims Lennon wrote seven songs, co-wrote two and one was by China Burton. Where's the source for these claims?shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 03:25, 17 June 2013 (UTC)

   I've never known songwriting credits in track listings to need cites before, but if you insist, I'll add a source. Best, yeepsi (Talk tonight) 10:51, 17 June 2013 (UTC)

3. If not using template, then add hard space before en dashesshaidar cuebiyar (talk) 12:00, 16 June 2013 (UTC)

    Done Best, yeepsi (Talk tonight) 12:50, 16 June 2013 (UTC)

Personnel

1. I'd prefer to see all instrumentation by the main musician in same place rather than per instrument. Also try to avoid redirects. e.g. * [[Julian Lennon]] – [[Lead vocalist|lead vocals]], [[Keyboard instrument|keyboards]], [[Drum kit|drums]], [[bass guitar]], [[Percussion instrument|percussion]], [[Backing vocalist|background vocals]] Note there's a hard space before the en dash, and most instruments are lower case.
2. Aren't 'Additional personnel' still musicians? Isn't Brecker already a 'Musician'

   I'll dig out my original copy of the album, and cite the album notes (if any). Best, yeepsi (Talk tonight) 13:25, 16 June 2013 (UTC)

    Done Best, yeepsi (Talk tonight) 13:43, 16 June 2013 (UTC)

Charts

1. I'd like to see Australian charting, viz:

|- |align="left"|Australian [[Kent Music Report]]<ref name="Kent">{{Cite book | title = [[Kent Music Report|Australian Chart Book 1970–1992]] | last1 = Kent | first1 = David | authorlink1 = David Kent (historian) | publisher = Australian Chart Book Ltd | location = [[St Ives, New South Wales|St Ives, NSW]] | year = 1993 | isbn = 0-646-11917-6 }} Note: Used for Australian Singles and Albums charting from 1974 until [[Australian Recording Industry Association]] (ARIA) created their own [[ARIA Charts|charts]] in mid-1988. In 1992, Kent back calculated chart positions for 1970–1974.</ref> | 8 You'll have to add a note as it charted in 1985 and also reached No. 63 on Australian End of Year Chart. His singles from the album on KMR were "Too Late for Goodbyes" (No. 13, November 1984), "Valotte" (No. 75, February 1985), "Say You're Wrong" (No. 31, April). Same reference. For online confirmation see here for album, and here for singles.

 Done Best, yeepsi (Talk tonight) 13:25, 16 June 2013 (UTC)

More to follow.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 12:39, 16 June 2013 (UTC)

Criterion 2

2. Verifiable with no original research:
1. it contains a list of all references (sources of information), presented in accordance with the layout style guideline;
2. reliable sources are cited inline. All content that could reasonably be challenged, except for plot summaries and that which summarizes cited content elsewhere in the article, must be cited no later than the end of the paragraph (or line if the content is not in prose); and
3. it contains no original research.

References

I will be checking all the references and each numbered comment below is related to the ref's number as it existed at this time. The order in the article may change from this numbering as refs get moved, added or deleted.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 03:34, 17 June 2013 (UTC)

Footnotes

1. Add a full stop to end of sentences. Same for rest of Footnotes except [12].

Citations

1. Add publisher=Josh Fromson Content supported. Article could mention 'Must to avoid' categorisation. By the way, in the article at [1a] use pop not Pop.
2. In what way is the source reliable? Add (CJ Burianek) to publisher, add year=2011, fix title: use en dash, italics for album title. Content verified. At [2a], consider adding anonymously?shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 04:59, 17 June 2013 (UTC)
3. Content accepted in good faith.
4. See [2]. Otherwise content mostly verified, except [4e]: Grammy nom needs a better ref.
5. Give page no(s), volume/issue no(s), publisher for off-line source. Is it RockBill? If I have this right, then add | issn=0890-460X | oclc =14256661 Content accepted in good faith.
   1. Now I see the source is also at same site as [2]: see here.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 12:25, 17 June 2013 (UTC)
6. Give additional info per e.g. in [5]. Content accepted in good faith.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 06:08, 17 June 2013 (UTC)
   1. Now I see the source is also at same site as [2]: see here.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 12:25, 17 June 2013 (UTC)
7. See [2]. Otherwise OK.
8. Per [5].
   1. Now I see the source is also at same site as [2]: see here.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 12:25, 17 June 2013 (UTC)
9. See [2]. Change (Host) to (interviewer), (Star) to (interviewee). For date range: use unspaced en dash. Format title. Medium is a transcript not a radio. Fix publisher to show that it is actually similar to [2], while there add in (Jon Sargent Productions) after Radio International.
10. Per [5]. with
    1. Now I see the source is also at same site as [2]: see here.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 12:25, 17 June 2013 (UTC)
11. See [2].
12. See [2].
13. Per [5].
    1. Now I see the source is also at same site as [2]: see here.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 12:25, 17 June 2013 (UTC)
14. See [2].
15. See [2] & [9].
16. See [2].
17. See [2].
18. See [2].
19. Full name for publisher & wikilink it.
20. Can't fault this one.
21. , 22, 23, 24: In what way is the source reliable?
25. Format title: spaced en dash; wikilink publisher and add (Rovi Corporation) to it.
26. page no(s)? If applicable, add in chapter=Sam Peckinpah – Career [26a] OK, but [26b]: my view at Google Books (see here) does not specify that both videos were nominated for the MTV Award, nor indication of which month the ceremony was held.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 22:54, 17 June 2013 (UTC)
27. See [2].
28. Per [5]. But also at [2]'s website? here
    1. There is a pattern emerging: almost the entire article is sourced according to information stored at one website: [2] www.heyjules.comshaidar cuebiyar (talk) 12:25, 17 June 2013 (UTC)
29. Is good.
30. Source [2] is not reliable for album sales.
31. Also at [2]: here
32. See [2].
33. Also at [2]: here
34. See [2].
35. Note only "Too Late for Goodbyes" was nominated.
36. Source [2] is not reliable for ASCAP award. No mention of award here.
37. Add publisher & issn
38. Format title. Add publisher. Different archive date? I have 6 July 2008.
39. Is good.
40. Wikilink publisher.
41. Is good.
42. Needs expanding. Include: title=Discographie – Julian Lennon |publisher=[[Media Control Charts|Media Control]] |language=[[German language|German]]
43. Fix: publisher=Swedish Charts Portal. Hung Medien
44. Fix per [43].shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 13:53, 17 June 2013 (UTC)

Summary

As indicated above, about half of the sources for this article can be found at one website: Hey Jules by CJ Burianek, which appears to be a fan site with no editorial overview per Self-published and questionable sources. Some 13 references are directly attributed and linked to Hey Jules, another 11 references have a transcribed copy of articles at that website but are not attributed even when linked to the site. The use of this website requires substantial justification as the article contains numerous direct quotations and otherwise unverified claims.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 21:00, 17 June 2013 (UTC)

Criterion 3

3. Broad in its coverage:
1. it addresses the main aspects of the topic; and
2. it stays focused on the topic without going into unnecessary detail (see summary style).
1. As indicated in Criterion 1, the Lead is a little short for an article of this length. Both 'Release and aftermath' and 'Critical reception' subsections should be summarised for the Lead.
2. Other than Lennon, there are few quotes/views from personnel involved in this album. e.g. anything from Clayton or Morales, who were housed with Lennon for three months song writing?
3. Girlfriend not named, she seems important to 'Recording and content' subsection.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 21:26, 17 June 2013 (UTC)

Criterion 4

4. Neutral: it represents viewpoints fairly and without editorial bias, giving due weight to each.
1. Some PoV issues with expression should be dealt with during Criterion 1.
2. Most direct quotes originate from Lennon, some diversity would further reduce this.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 03:21, 18 June 2013 (UTC)

Criterion 5

5. Stable: it does not change significantly from day to day because of an ongoing edit war or content dispute.
Generally stable, further changes per comments above are expected. Acceptable at this criterion.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 03:23, 18 June 2013 (UTC)

Criterion 6

6. Illustrated, if possible, by media such as images, video, or audio:
1. media are tagged with their copyright statuses, and valid non-free use rationales are provided for non-free content; and
2. media are relevant to the topic, and have suitable captions.
1. Infobox has image, with NFUR supplied.
2. An alt text descripton of the image would help certain users; not compulsory.
3. A suitable audio sample could be supplied but is not required.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 03:42, 18 June 2013 (UTC)

Final decision

I have finished my review and will allow a week for suggested improvements to be made. I will provide my final decision at that time.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 05:04, 18 June 2013 (UTC)

Can I request the GA review be failed? Just so I can fix the outstanding issues at a leisurely pace. Best, yeepsi (Talk tonight) 23:36, 22 June 2013 (UTC)

In light of the above request, this GA has failed.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 04:20, 23 June 2013 (UTC)