Talk:Vanessa Marquez
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Unsourced info
editMost of the basic biographical info in this article is straight out of IMDb, which is not a reliable source for biographical info.
At the moment, the four sources are essentially the same news story (covering the shooting). Ignoring that info and the IMDb-sourced info, this article is a list of roles.
While this story is still in the mills, I'm going to leave this alone. After a few days, I'll see if we have sources for the info. If not, I'll take it out and see if I can find anything. - SummerPhDv2.0 18:13, 1 September 2018 (UTC)
Cause of death
editCurrently the article states death by police shooting. An IP has been trying to change this to suicide by cop but it's unreferenced. If a reliable source can be identified, I will change it to suicide - I'll poke for references now. Ifnord (talk) 19:05, 3 March 2020 (UTC)
See Real World Police's coverage of the incident on YouTube. In a pinned comment, they quote the police case file.
"Marquez’s last Facebook post occurred minutes prior to her confrontation with officers from the South Pasadena Police Department. On August 30, 2018, at approximately 1346 hours, Marquez wrote:
"there shooting cremate me pour ashes over Hollywood sign.’’
The following is transcribed from the case file:
On September 10, 2018, a search warrant to obtain records from Marquez’ Facebook account was signed and authorized by the Honorable Judge Shelly Torrealba of the Central Judicial District, East Los Angeles Superior Court. On October 4, 2018, investigators received Marquez’ records from Facebook. Sergeant Morales reviewed the records and noted the following:
Marquez’ Facebook username was “vanessarmarquez.” Investigators received Marquez’ Facebook records between January 1, 2018, and September 1, 2018.
In Facebook posts, Marquez described herself as “terminally ill” and weighing 82 pounds. She described living with pain associated with autoimmune disorders Celiac Disease and Fibromyalgia. Over the past year, Marquez also chronicled on Facebook her disagreements with her landlord and her possible eviction from her apartment. Marquez also described in many of her posts of being “blacklisted” from Hollywood following her complaints of sexual harassment.
Sergeant Morales noted some of Marquez’ Facebook posts in recent months:
On April 17, 2018, Marquez posted that she had discussed doctor-assisted suicide with her doctor when it became law in California. She wrote that she wished she had done the “paperwork.”
On April 27, 2018, Marquez wrote in a post that she was upset with her landlord and believed he was a violent person. She indicated she was going to protect herself by sleeping in her bed with scissors and pepper spray.
On June 25, 2018, in a long rambling Facebook post, Marquez described herself as “feeling broken.” She indicated she was upset a maid service refused to clean her apartment due to a-health hazard. Marquez described her home as “officially being from an episode of Hoarders." She also described that her terminal illness had left her at 82 pounds and unable to walk, writing:
“This disease is supposed to be terminal. WHEN THE FUCK IS IT GOING TO TAKE ME OUT??? WHEN??? I’ve reached my limit. I’m physically and mentally exhausted. I don’t give a FUCK ANYMORE!"
In the same post, Marquez wrote that she was going to purchase a gun to protect herself:
"The next person who decides to come into this house, whether it’s the landlord, his cunt receptionist, or YOU, I’m going to shoot first and ask who is it later.’’
Marquez continued in the post that she had found an “air” gun for $28 dollars from Smith & Wesson. She wrote:
“Is that a real gun? I don’t want it to be but if it can scare someone enough to crap their pants GOOD..’’
Marquez described in the post of the emotional toll her illness has had on her:
“This is fighting terminal illness alone. If the measure of a life is by the family and friends IN your life and home, thenmy life has been of no value. So why should I have justice for being assaulted, harassed and BLACKLISTED... I want to die NOW. I don’t want to wait on God anymore. God can fuck itself.’’
On July 12, 2018, Marquez posted her Facebook account:
“After I nearly got arrested in my own home trying to report my landlord, I bought a gun; a fake bb gun but it looks like a Glock. I’ve ordered a taser as well and I told the police if you're not going to protect me and return my wheelchair stolen by the landlord. But you better warn him because I’m armed and I'll shoot anyone who comes into this house INCLUDING YOU. That is my glorious 2nd Amendment right isn’t it?’’
On August 4, 2018, Marquez wrote on Huntington Hospital's Facebook page that she was upset with paramedics who made fun of her and joking about her “fake seizures.”
On August 6, 2018, Marquez again wrote on Huntington Hospital's Facebook page that she was upset with emergency room staff. She wrote:
““I TOTALLY, TOTALLY understand why people say fuck it and go postal. Totally."
On August 29, 2018, Marquez posted that her seizures were back. She wrote if she was not heard from, to call the South Pasadena Police Department.
On August 30, 2018, at approximately 0747 hours, Marquez updated her Facebook status as “Seizerses [sic] bad.”
Marquez’s last Facebook post occurred minutes prior to her confrontation with officers from the South Pasadena Police Department. On August 30, 2018, at approximately 1346 hours, Marquez wrote:
"there shooting cremate me pour ashes over Hollywood sign."
Seems clear as day to me.
The official police shooting videos have been released. The cause of death should be suicide by cop. KaViGa (talk) 21:19, 10 May 2020 (UTC)
It is very clear that Marquez intended for the police to kill her during the confrontation.
In the shooting transcript, Marquez instructs the police to shoot her while she is brandishing the weapon. She literally says, “shoot me.”
Here is a source with more information that points to previous suicidal tendencies and police evidence from the shooting:
https://en.m.wikisource.org/wiki/Review_of_Officer_Involved_Shooting_of_Vanessa_Marquez KaViGa (talk) 21:51, 10 May 2020 (UTC)
What is the point of this quote?
edit"In March 2020, the South Pasadena Police released bodycam footage from the incident, where Marquez pleaded to the officers to leave her" After everything that has been discussed here about the shooting, and how she obviously intentionally forced the police to shoot her, why is the only quote that directly refers to the video tailored to make it sound like she was an innocent victim who "pleaded with the officers to leave" before they gunned her down, implying (apparently) that if the officers had just complied with her wishes, she wouldn't be dead. That isn't backed up by the footage they released at all. Not sure if it's the family trying to alter public opinion to help their lawsuit, but it's not fair. The officers showed up because they had a report that she needed someone to intervene for her safety. They came in and immediately summoned medical professionals to check her out. At this point the officer's duty is to look after her health. The medical personnel recommended she be placed into medical custody for evaluation, and the police acted on their advice and signed an official medical detention form to place her into medical custody, because they had good reason to believe she was a risk to herself (if not others as well). The police were within their rights, and acting as they thought was best for her safety. She certainly appeared to need closer medical supervision at the time. Whether she asked them to leave or not is hardly relevant. A medical detention is still a detention, and it is not optional. What were they supposed to so, leave and summon medical professionals instead? It was the medical professionals who recommended they detain her, and it was the police who had the authority to do so.
Request for Comment: Inclusion of police bodycam footage
editI originally posted about this on the external links noticeboard, but I think a full-fledged RfC might be the best way to bring in outside perspectives. Basically, I want to discuss whether the police bodycam footage of her fatal shooting merits inclusion in the article itself. The link to the YouTube video was originally added in March 2020; the video itself was later uploaded and added to the article in May of this year. It is narrated, with a viewer discretion warning at the start, and the shots of her incapacitated body and the officer who fired the weapon are both blurred, so it's not as if no effort was made to depict what transpired in a respectful light; nevertheless, it still feels like something that should be approved by community consensus first. Kurtis (talk) 19:03, 7 December 2023 (UTC)
- (Summoned by bot) - First off, I've nominated the video for deletion. There may be a valid license claim for the underlying bodycam footage, but this is an edited version with narration and a watermark added, uploaded to a channel that isn't associated with the State of California. But let's say that the original footage were uploaded for the sake of this RfC. I would support linking but oppose embedding the video. If this were an article dedicated to the killing of Vanessa Marquez, I think there would be more justification, but as a biography of an actor, it feels like a WP:WEIGHT issue to me. — Rhododendrites talk \\ 22:28, 7 December 2023 (UTC)
- I agree with @Rhododendrites. This definitely is giving WP:UNDUE issues to the article. By embedding a video from one unknown viewpoint, it is not fairly representing all significant viewpoints and cannot be verified to be 100% accurate. I also propose that if a video is put into the article, it should be a link to a reputable source for the video and should not be embedded. Pickalittletalkalittle (talk) 23:07, 11 December 2023 (UTC)
- Concur with Rhododendrites, leaving aside the licence issues, oppose embedding per WP:UNDUE: "in determining proper weight, we consider a viewpoint's prevalence in reliable sources" - in this case, prevalence is an editorial decision around inclusion. There are some reports (ABC7 LA) which show edited *extracts* of the footage, Newsweek does embed the South Pasedena footage, but the majority of RS reporting around the actor's death (eg Deadline, LA Times, Variety, NBC News,) and related issues (the civil suit), does not. Regards, --Goldsztajn (talk) 22:01, 8 December 2023 (UTC)