Talk:Vanessa Williams/Archive 1

Archive 1

Gay Icon Project

In my effort to merge the now-deleted list from the article Gay icon to the Gay icons category, I have added this page to the category. I engaged in this effort as a "human script", adding everyone from the list to the category, bypassing the fact-checking stage. That is what I am relying on you to do. Please check the article Gay icon and make a judgment as to whether this person or group fits the category. By distributing this task from the regular editors of one article to the regular editors of several articles, I believe that the task of fact-checking this information can be expedited. Thank you very much. Philwelch 22:20, 24 Mar 2005 (UTC)

What makes you think she's a lesbian? WiccaWeb 03:31, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

One doesn't have to be a lesbian to be a Gay icon. See the article for a definition. Jamesisahimbo (talk) 21:24, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

African American?

I'm afraid this is going to spark a lot of controversy, and I was reluctant to write anything, but I couldn't help myself: can she be properly described as "African American", as she's currently described throughout the article? According to the text, her ancestry is 5/8 "African American" and 3/8 "Caucasian". I think most people (especially in the USA) wouldn't call someone who is (as an example) 5/8 white and 3/8 black "white", so why the opposite? That's without even getting into the issue of her appearance, i.e., whether she actually "looks" "African American" or not.

Of course, to me much of the problem comes from the definition of just what "African American" means (yes, I've read that article and corresponding talk page, and I don't think they answer this question well).

Maybe the people who wrote the article subscribe to the theory of hypodescent...

Well first of all, "African American" in this case and in the rest of Wiki is being used more as an ethnic term, not a racial one, similar to Italian American, Irish American, etc. that we categorize other entertainers as. But in the case of many US blacks, it's not as easy to categorize by individual national origin for unfortunate reasons, which is why it's done by continent (Africa), while Europeans and Asians usually do it by nation (Chinese, Dutch, French, etc). Secondly, the info about her race breakdown should be deleted anyway since its unsourced. Crumbsucker 15:19, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for your input. I do understand that rationale behind the name "African American". What I don't understand is why it should be applied to people who have only partial black ancestry. And, in her case, even if she's not really 5/8+3/8 as the article says, it seems clear to me, from her appearance, that she's not simply "black". --Cotoco 15:45, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

As a side note to the above discussion: No Black American, no american for that matter, who can trace their familial history in this country back more than five generations is composed of solely one ethnic group. The exceptions are so rare as to be unmentionable. As for her apperance, there is no standard which identifies one as black. We come in the darkest ebon to the lightest ivory and everything in between. In the US, long and still have we utilized the one drop rule (one black ancestor identifies a person as black). In any case, I do believe, one's own personal definition of self should be paramount. And, Ms. Williams has always identified herself as a Black Woman.208.242.54.41 22:45, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

There's no such thing as Black ancestory, unless it pertains to social, cultural and racial identity. There is no Black gene. I doubt highly that her sub-Saharan and/or Arabic (and descendents other possible ethnic groups) identified as black people. The concept has evolved rather recently in history; as result of the Slave Trade and Africans in the Wester/New World. Even the African continent experienced a considerable amount of ethnic mixing prior to the beginning of the Trans Atlantic Slave Trade. A Black woman, she is most definately, and is implied of her recent ancestors.

Ancestry By DNA.com is a very informative website. This company was involved in the BBC's 2003 Motherland - A Genetic Journeyproject. It speaks of the fact that since the dawn of man, people have been constantly on the move, evolving, mutating and mixing with one another (in an ethnic/racial sense). They also cover that there are two aspects of race and the concept of race is significanly more complex than it is generally understood and applied by most people. I believe that there are no individuals living today, none, that are not a product of racial or ethnic fusion occuring in the recent or distant past. 68.221.92.102 19:42, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

ANYONE with known African ancestry who self identifies as African American is African American, regardless of the proportion of "pure" (whatever THAT means) African ancestry: That is why African Americans literally come in all colors, with wide variations in phenotypes. Its more a cultural designation that biological one (for that matter, so is "race"). Kemet

The first time I saw vanessa was her music video,I thought she was white at first.I was suprised that after watching that movie where she was a dancer competing,my mom said she was Black,but I said she looks quite white.But after doing my research on race,ehtnic group across the world,african american ancestry,I realised,that Vanessa is Black but for sure she defenetly has European ancestry as well.Judging by her looks.Many African Americans have "Original" American and European ancestry.So save to say Vanessa is an American of African and European ancestry! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 219.94.60.111 (talk) 19:19, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

It seems bizarre that those here who are so fanatical about being politically correct wish to insert "African American" even when it actually undermines the woman's achievements. The significance of VW's winning of the Miss America title was that she had black skin - ethnicity was of zero relevance. What she overcame was a prejudice not against cultural connections to sub-Saharan Africa but a prejudice based on appearance, specifically her skin colour. Pussy-footing around with coy phrases like "African American" and other euphemisms really takes away from the importance of what happened. And that's without even looking at what a nonsense the phrase itself is - there are no Americans who are not of African decent; everyone on the planet is of African decent! 213.78.235.176 (talk) 13:25, 27 August 2009 (UTC)

The one-drop rule remains in effect in America for descriptive purposes: anyone of identifiable origin in sub-Saharan African native people, however slight, is considered "black" in the United States. Such is the rule, and it is not the same rule that applies to other countries, including Brazil. No achievement can transform anyone from "black" to "white". Neither can personal choice or legal process. "Passing" is the only way, and that comes at a great personal cost.

It is possible that someone like Vanessa Williams can look very white because she has concentrated many of the recessive genes associated with Caucasoid ancestry through random causes... but she is black enough to be recognized as such in the USA. But she is not denying her origins in Africa or in slave populations brought to America contrary to their will. Like many American blacks she may have no affection for any white ancestors (slave owners?) even if she has no antipathy toward contemporary white Americans.Pbrower2a (talk) 17:14, 21 October 2010 (UTC)

The one-drop rule is a 20th century rule. In many places, it was not in effect before anti-miscegenation laws, even if some people already thought essentially in that way (and others don't). As for now -- if it were still seen as "common sense" and universally valid, it would not need to be explained! Of course, we are talking about somebody born in the twentieth century, and thus these categories are relevant; still, they should be discussed in terms of how some people saw others, rather than impose the categories normatively on a biographical subject. Feketekave (talk) 16:05, 25 July 2014 (UTC)

What color are her eyes? Are they really blue? That would be unusual for someone who is dark skinned because of the way all that works. I would think it would be impossible. I think she is gorgeous at any rate. What other Miss USA does anyone remember?--24.177.0.156 (talk) 02:06, 14 August 2015 (UTC)

Her eyes are blue. And given her genetics, it's not at all impossible that she has blue eyes. She isn't even all that dark-skinned. She's considered light-skinned, and not just by the African American community. See different images of her with this Google Images link. But I do gather that you meant "non-white." Furthermore, as scientists have been clear about, no one is 100% white or black, or 100% whatever other "race"/ethnicity, anymore; we are all a mix of something. Flyer22 (talk) 02:29, 14 August 2015 (UTC)

Requested move 2006

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.

Vanessa Lynn Williams → Vanessa L. Williams – For film credits, she is typically credited with an initial, not full middle name. Crumbsucker 04:37, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

Survey

Add *Support or *Oppose followed by an optional one-sentence explanation, then sign your opinion with ~~~~

• Provisional support. She is not known as Vanessa Lynn Williams, and is known as Vanessa L. Williams, so it's better. --Dhartung | Talk 06:05, 21 July 2006 (UTC)
  • True. Crumbsucker 11:27, 23 July 2006 (UTC)
• Oppose rename to Vanessa Williams as primary and move DAB page to Vanessa Williams (disambiguation). 132.205.44.134 01:03, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
  • As I said before, I don't know if the gap of notablity is enough for her to get the page name over the Soul Food series actress. Including the L. would be a easy compromise for disambiguation purposes (which she does herself as her page explains). She uses the L. in her stage name anyway, so it wouldn't be inaccurate to name the page that. Crumbsucker 17:20, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

Discussion

Add any additional comments

I actually think that she should be at Vanessa Williams, as neither of her name-mates is nearly as well-known. I keep seeing more and more First Last name pages used as disambiguation "portals" and I think that's generally bad form. (On the other hand, we have three living users of the name.) If Vanessa Williams is supported by other editors, I will change my vote. --Dhartung | Talk 06:05, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

The way it's set up now is flawed, but works IMO. I don't think the two bigger Vanessas (L. and A.) have that big of a gap in terms of notability to give L. the main page. Crumbsucker 11:27, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

Van-A is an actress, Van-L is an actress, hit singer, model, Miss America, first black Miss America, a Miss America stripped of her crown, first Miss America to not cry when winning the award... Van-L seems to have quite a good size gap in notability to Van-A, I would say enough to justify being primary. 132.205.93.88 01:41, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

• She's most commonly known as Vanessa Williams. 132.205.44.134
  • She's known by both and uses the L. to disambiguate herself from the Soul Food series actress. It would be fine to do the same here. Crumbsucker 17:20, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

This article has been renamed as the result of a move request. Ashibaka 22:36, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

.

Edit revert re: her "current" project

Some Other Editor keeps adding information to the introductory section about her current role in Ugly Betty ... the problem is that this is time sensitive information, i.e., after the series (or her participation in it) is concluded, it will no longer be her "current" project, and it would become incorrect information that would have to be removed ... in addition, contributions like

However, she has since gone on to become one of the most successful Miss Americas ever and is lauded as one of the most respected and multi-faceted performers in entertainment today, having conquered the music charts, Broadway, music videos, television and motion pictures. In her current project she plays conniving over-the-top magazine creative director Wilhelmina Slater on the hit ABC comedy 'Ugly Betty.'

are not appropriate for several reasons:

1. effusive terms like "most successful", "most respected", and "conquered" are very non-neutral POV superlatives
2. those assertions of "most" are unsubstantiated by any WP:RS citations
3. no wikilinks are provided for the character, network, or show
4. the material duplicates an entry (with appropriate links) that appears later in the article under Television, phrased in such a way that it will not have to be edited when the series concludes
5. no edit summary was provided by the contributor, and uncommented edits may be reverted by anyone

That is why I reverted the edit (as I did a few days ago), and will do so again if the same thing happens ... this kind of incomplete fanboy editing simply degrades articles rather than improving them ... Happy Editing! —68.239.79.82 (talk · contribs) 06:57, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

Most of this would be inappropriate, but "Williams has gone on to lead what is arguably the most successful career of any former Miss America," is simply a true statement, as her biography illustrates.--70.189.108.243 01:31, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

Note that the qualifier "what is arguably" is what makes that a neutral point of view (NPOV) statement; without that qualifier, it would require a citation from a reliable source, or else it would have to be deleted. —68.239.79.82 07:23, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

italian american??

it's a voice there is on the web... and it seems she catholic... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.20.112.46 (talk • contribs) 12:46, 28 May 2007

Deleted two sections

I have deleted the subsections Filmography and Television works under the Works section because (a) the article is getting Too Long, and (b) they duplicated material better presented in the subsections Feature film roles and Television under the earlier Acting career section ... Wikipedia is not a crystal ball, so the Upcoming: subsection should never have been created in the first place.

IMDb provides a much more complete and up-to-date collection of her film and television roles, including the less notable and most recent ones that do not have Wikipedia articles, so readers should go to the end of the article and click her name in this link:

• Vanessa L. Williams at IMDb

Happy Editing! —68.239.79.82 07:59, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

Update: I added the comment above before actually making the changes, and then discovered that after I had removed those two subsections, there was nothing left under Works but Discography, so I deleted the former and elevated the latter (and it's subsections) by one level. —68.239.79.82 08:12, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

After Some Other Editor added a film already mentioned and linked in the Feature film roles section, per Wikipedia:What Wikipedia is not#Wikipedia is not a mirror or a repository of links, images, or media files, I have deleted the list and replaced it with a copy of the {{imdb name}} from the External links section so that readers do not have to scroll to the end of the article to find it … I also copied the {{tvtome person}} to the Television section for the same reason. —72.75.70.147 00:21, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

Graduated after 25 years

I added this, since this is the moment of glory in her life: Williams graduated and also delivered the convocation address on May 10, 2008, with 480 other students in the College of Visual and Performing Arts. She stated: “It’s been 25 years since I was a student here. It just brought home what my message was, which is cherish the moment; these days are irreplaceable and are the beginning of the rest of your life."capitalnews9.com, Vanessa Williams graduates from SUgmanews.tv, Vanessa Williams receives diploma after 25 years --Florentino floro (talk) 13:52, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

Vanessa Lynn Williams

Vanessa Williams will star in a new film titled,"Phenom," to be released in 2009 which will be produced by George Tillman and Robert Teitel who also produced the hit film,"Soul Food."

Igypt70 14:46, 31 October 2008 (UTC)

Selected filmography

As per Wikipedia is not a collection of lists, I have reduced the Filmography section of Vanessa Williams (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) to just the films that have Wikipedia articles, and renamed it to Selected filmography ... people can click the IMDb External link that follows the section to see the subject's full filmography with links to information about each of their films.

Please see the template's talk page for examples of using the {{Imdb name}}, {{Imdb title}}, {{Tv.com person}}, and {{Tv.com show}} templates.

I have also used [[19xx in film|19xx]] tags for the years of the films, since [[19xx]] has little encyclopedic value.

Anonymous edits without comments may be reverted by anyone.

I am placing this boilerplate message on this Discussion page before I actually make the changes, so that I can just put "see Discussion page" in the edit summary, and hopefully not have my edit summarily reverted as vandalism by Some Other Editor.

Happy Editing! — 72.75.110.31 (talk · contribs) _{03:29, 6 November 2008 (UTC)}

Academy Award?

The Academy Award for best song was awarded to the writers/composers of Colors of the wind, but I don't think she personally was credited as either. Therefore I don't think she won one and it should be removed from her awards list. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Givememoney17 (talk • contribs) 00:43, 1 February 2010 (UTC)

• I agree. Same thing with the Grammy the songwriters also won. In three days, absent any objections, I shall delete them both. ForDorothy (talk) 00:28, 17 September 2010 (UTC)

Melrose Place

It's funny that this article has absolutely no mention of her stint on the original MELROSE PLACE!

That was the first time I ever saw her act, and I loved her in it.

And the irony of her now being on DESPERATE HOUSEWIVES, is that she's reunited with actor Doug Savant, and their 2 characters when they were on M.P. were good friends who stuck together!

Has she disassociated herself from that show, or is it just a large omission from this article?

David summerhaven1@mac.com —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.52.185.72 (talk) 17:30, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

She was never on that show, not to my knowledge. You are on the wrong Vanessa Williams page. Stopde (talk) 13:52, 20 November 2012 (UTC)

She is not a songwriter

She is not a singwriter and that does not belong in her credits. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 97.120.148.131 (talk) 06:36, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

Requested move 2011

The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

No consensus to move. Vegaswikian (talk) 22:18, 18 May 2011 (UTC)

Vanessa L. Williams → Vanessa Williams (entertainer) – These acts are disambiguated by their middle initial when neither act uses their middle initial in their stage name. This can be fixed like this, the disambiguation page clarifying who is who (it is already ambiguous for the middle initals). I Help, When I Can. ^[12] 03:20, 12 May 2011 (UTC)

• Vanessa A. Williams → Vanessa Williams (actress)

Survey

• Oppose Both of them are actresses, so moving A. to actress is just confusing. Actresses are a type of entertainer, so moving L. to entertainer is as clear as mud. 184.144.163.181 (talk) 04:42, 12 May 2011 (UTC)
• Oppose. In this case, the middle initial seems to be a better method of disambiguation. Both are actresses, and actresses are sometimes considered entertainers. And "singer" will not work either because Vanessa L. Williams and Vanessa R. Williams are both singers/recording artists ... and singers are also entertainers.Zzyzx11 (talk) 05:28, 12 May 2011 (UTC)
  • And both were born in 1963 so dab by date won't work either. —  AjaxSmack  10:57, 12 May 2011 (UTC)

• Another possibility is to move Vanessa L. Williams→Vanessa Williams per WP:PRIMARYTOPIC and leave Vanessa R. Williams where she is. However, there is also Vanessa R. Williams to consider. All in all, the status quo with a dab page at Vanessa Williams seems to work best, so oppose a move. —  AjaxSmack  10:57, 12 May 2011 (UTC)
• Oppose per others. Acting was all I knew of her career until now; in this case the (better than usual) disam page is really necessary. Johnbod (talk) 18:43, 13 May 2011 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Was Vanessa Williams born in Tarrytown, Millwood, or the Bronx?

There seems to be some confusion concerning the birthplace of Vanessa Williams. Most Internet sources list her place of birth as Tarrytown. Other Internet sites give her birthplace as Bronx, New York. A third source claims that she was born in Millwood

An editor claims that her place of birth is given in the biography on her website. I went to this website at http://vanessawilliams.com/, but I could not see any biography or DOB for her.

The information concerning Vanessa Williams' birthplace is definitely hearsay. The only person who can positively verify her place of birth is her mother. If Vanessa Williams herself were to tell you that she was born in Millwood, the statement would be hearsay.

The is a lot of misinformation in Wikipedia articles because of the prevalence of hearsay, conjecture, rumor, and speculation.

Vanessa Williams, where were you born? I don't know, and a lot of other people also don't know.

Anthony22 (talk) 12:51, 19 March 2013 (UTC)

A little while ago, another editor changed the location from Tarrytown to Millwood. Before reverting, I did as you just did and attempted an Internet search. Like you, I found one reference to the Bronx, there was also another to a rather generic "New York City". I didn't even bother to read any source whose Google-displayed URL indicated it was clearly not RS, or for which Google showed a summary clearly identical to Wikipedia's content. Of those I checked, the closest I could find was one site saying something like "near Tarrytown, New York" or "in the Tarrytown, New York, area", which is not a word choice I would use to describe Millwood but could arguably apply (approx. 9 miles apart, straight line).

The vanessawilliams.com bio page was already included as a cite for the information, with an accessed date in 2010, but when I tried to verify what it said I found the site had become almost entirely promotional, without any useful background. The earlier version was archived, however, and I modified citation #7 to point to that.

One thing does bother me about using Millwood – the apparent absence of hospitals in Millwood. I'm not sure how many middle-class Westchester families opted for home births in the 1960s. Phelps Memorial in Sleepy Hollow (then known as North Tarrytown) would certainly match the description of "near Tarrytown"; otherwise the choices are pretty limited, but I've wondered on several bios whether the birthplace referred to actual physical location of the birth or the place the parents were living at the time (Alec Baldwin being a similar case). Fat&Happy (talk) 17:42, 19 March 2013 (UTC)

Phelps Memorial Hospital is in Sleepy Hollow. Northern Westchester Hospital is in Mount Kisco. There is no hospital in Millwood or Chappaqua. I doubt that Vanessa Williams was born at home, although it's possible. Douglas Kennedy made Northern Westchester Hospital famous recently. It's my guess that Williams was born at Phelps in Tarrytown, but again I'm speculating. It's silly to spend a lot of time and effort on this issue.

Anthony22 (talk) 20:17, 19 March 2013 (UTC)

Yeah, Northern Westchester seemed like an obvious possibility, but I figured that would just muddy the waters since nobody had mentioned Kisco as one of the options. (I remember seeing that Kennedy story on TV when it first happend, but wasn't paying close enough attention to note the hospital they were talking about.)

I'm inclined – in an OR sort of way – to think it was Phelps; I also tried scanning her new book's "look inside" on Amazon, but couldn't find anything about where she was born, just that she was early and how much she weighed. Fat&Happy (talk) 21:33, 19 March 2013 (UTC)

Well, she says she lived in Millwood (and, yeah, I know what you mean about Alec Baldwin, who was born in Amityville but raised in nearby Massapequa) in You Have No Idea: A Famous Daughter, Her No-nonsense Mother, and How They Survived Pageants, Hollywood, Love, Loss (and Each Other) by Vanessa Williams and Helen Williams: "It was the summer of 1972.... My three cousins from Baltimore were staying at our Millwood, New York, home...." (p. 1). Still looking. --Tenebrae (talk) 01:41, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

Here's what a respectable author from a respectable publisher says. African Americans in the Performing Arts by Steven Otfinoski (Great Black Writers; Alexander Fleming), the inaugural volume in Facts On File's "A to Z of African Americans" series: "She was born Vanessa Lynn Williams on March 18, 1963, in the Bronx, New York, and grew up in Millwood, New York." (p. 244). --Tenebrae (talk) 01:52, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

Here's Black Firsts: 4,000 Ground-Breaking and Pioneering Historical Events by Jessie Carney Smith (author, biographer, and black studies scholar; William and Camille Cosby Professor in the Humanities at Fisk University in Nashville; 1992 National Women's Book Association Award, the Candace Award for excellence in education, and Sage magazine's Ann J. Cooper Award for her published works on African American Women). The American Library Association says, "Black Firsts remains an important part of the reference collection, and school, public, and academic libraries will welcome this updated version." This seems the most definite: "was born in the Bronx borough of New York City. The family relocated to the upscale community of Millwood, New York, when Williams was one year old." (p. 468). Hope this helps. -- Tenebrae (talk) 01:57, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

Since nobody seems to be able to verify whether Vanessa Williams was born in the Bronx, Millwood, or Tarrytown, it might be a good idea to place a "citation needed" marker next to her "place of birth" in the article.

Anthony22 (talk) 12:48, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

I'm not sure a {{Citation needed}} tag is either accurate or very helpful. We have citations; the problem is that we have, or have available, multiple RS citations in conflict with one another. Maybe we should just change the infobox and text to say what is undisputed – New York – and add a note detailing the confusion among various sources, similar to what was done about Demi Moore's birth name in her article. Fat&Happy (talk) 18:01, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

I dunno. What quality are the sites that don't say The Bronx? It'd seem to me that two well-regarded reference books by established, award-winning scholars are about as reliable a citation as one would ask for. Professor Smith even specifies that Williams moved with her family when she was 1. What are the sources contradicting that? --Tenebrae (talk) 20:29, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

Well, I see one of those sources is the archive of her official bio! D'oh! Still, is it possible she might be embarrassed to be from The Bronx? --Tenebrae (talk) 20:33, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

That was sort of my reasoning in equating this to the Demi/Demetria issue. I don't have ready access to a copy of You Have No Idea; the best I can find on Amazon's peekaboo is a description of her parents searching for a home in Westchester, but with no year mentioned. Fat&Happy (talk) 22:42, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

Removal of unsourced material on Amy Gier Wessell from the Chapter on Pageants and Miss America title

I just noticed that Hullaballoo Wolfowitz deleted some unsourced information on Amy Gier Wessell from the Chapter on Pageants and Miss America title. Wessell was a Caucasian woman from Boulder, Colorado who appeared in a nude photo spread with Williams in Penthouse Magazine. The spread included photos involving anal stimulation and cunnilingus. I am the person who originally entered this information, but I didn't source it and it was unceremoniously deleted.

For you information, I used a Google search to locate and identify the "other woman." I have also perused the September, 1984 issue of Penthouse magazine, which contains the rather disgusting photographs of Williams and Wessell. The information pertaining to Williams was true and correct, but unsourced. I don't understand why this kind of unsourced information has to be deleted. Has Hullaballoo seen the September, 1984 issue of Penthouse? The issue itself is verification. Also, anyone can do a Google search on Williams to verify that Amy Gier Wessell appeared in the interracial photo spread.

I remember the sequence of events of this incident when it occurred almost 30 years ago. After winning the title, Williams had commercial endorsements on cereal boxes, which were immediately removed from store shelves after the nude pictures surfaced. When Williams consented to the photo shoot, she didn't know that she was going to win the Miss America Pageant the following year.

A footnote. Before deleting unsourced information, try to verify that information through your own sources. It's silly to deleted pertinent, true, and factual information just because that information is unsourced in the article.

Anthony22 (talk) 12:53, 18 July 2013 (UTC)

If you want to verify that Amy Gier Wessell was the other woman who posed nude with Vanessa Williams, click on the following link:

http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1928&dat=19840730&id=S0cpAAAAIBAJ&sjid=BGgFAAAAIBAJ&pg=4016,4646720

Anthony22 (talk) 15:33, 6 August 2013 (UTC)

first off, i'd like to say thank you for looking into the subject and finding a source for it. this is very useful in specifying the information, and you're right that more specific information is superior.

on that note, i'd like to clarify that no one on Wikipedia intended to personally question your factual knowledge! however, it actually is very important to delete information from a BLP article if it is unsourced or poorly sourced. this is a hard Wikipedia policy, and i personally think it especially applies around such a sensitive topic (though that is not a part of the official ruling). deleted information can be re-added later if it is well sourced, but unsourced/poorly sourced information that an editor finds dubious must immediately be removed. now that you've found a source (assuming it is a reliable one), you are free to add the information so long as you include a reference (such as the link above). you'll probably want to use the {{cite news}} template. Cheers! ~ Boomur [talk] 23:00, 6 August 2013 (UTC)

So what we appear to have is a second-hand repetition of a preliminary report based on the statement of Penthouse's attorney. The individual's own attorney actually had no official comment, but promised one the next day. Do we have any reports of that statement? If not, it might be best to present the name as attributed to Roy Grutman rather than as a fact presented in Wikipedia's voice. Fat&Happy (talk) 01:39, 7 August 2013 (UTC)

Requested move of content

The film, television, theater and awards sections have become very long lists. They should be moved to separate articles.-Classicfilms (talk) 15:05, 19 September 2015 (UTC)

If there are no objections, I will move them. I'll check back in a few weeks.-Classicfilms (talk) 00:00, 9 October 2015 (UTC)

I don't think that the Television and film section, or the Awards and accolades section, need their own articles. I mean, the lists don't seem very long to me. But I don't object to you splitting the content. Angelina Jolie filmography and List of awards and nominations received by Angelina Jolie are good examples. And if the Jolie material, which actually is not that big, can have articles, so can the Williams material. Flyer22 (talk) 05:15, 10 October 2015 (UTC)

Well, that's fair. I'll wait then to see what other people think.-Classicfilms (talk) 15:46, 10 October 2015 (UTC)

Looking at List of awards and nominations received by Angelina Jolie again, I see that those are a lot of awards. And while there are less documented in the Vanessa L. Williams article, it still shouldn't be a problem to create an article for that. I'm usually against splits unless necessary, per WP:Spinout and WP:No split. But again, I don't oppose you going ahead and splitting the content in this case. Flyer22 (talk) 16:20, 10 October 2015 (UTC)

Note: I also changed the heading of this section from "Requested moves" to "Requested move of content"; this is because "requested move" is usually associated with WP:Requested moves. Flyer22 (talk) 16:24, 10 October 2015 (UTC)

Thanks Flyer22! You are correct re: the heading of my request, I should have been more specific. As for the splitting - agreed. My experience with GANs and FACs usually becomes more difficult if there are lists on the page (people tend not to like long lists during these reviews) but you also bring up some valid points. Let me wait a bit to hear from others -- if there aren't serious objections, I will make a split. Maybe, if you don't mind - I'll check in with you at that time to discuss the wording of the title. Part of my hesitation with the acting/hosts section lies in the fact that I don't know exactly how to word it. So you are right - some of the lists are just too short - but some, as with the television section are a bit long. I think that the awards section is ready for a move. Again I'll wait a bit. Thanks for the feedback! -Classicfilms (talk) 16:47, 10 October 2015 (UTC)

Okay. And you're welcome. Flyer22 (talk) 22:38, 10 October 2015 (UTC)

Lead image

This image is not a good WP:Lead image. Flyer22 (talk) 05:05, 10 October 2015 (UTC)

You are free to change it.-Classicfilms (talk) 15:47, 10 October 2015 (UTC)

Improve article for future GAN??

I think that this article could be improved for a future GAN but it needs a bit of work, particularly the acting sections which read like a list right now. Also, the Miss America section should be increased to include events and controversies that happened during the 10 months before the scandal, particularly right after she won. I'm certain there will be more than enough news coverage but much of that is probably not online. Scholarship that includes discussion on Williams is also out there. If anyone is interested in doing some background research on the topic let me know. I could as well, just not right at this moment, perhaps in a few months. So I don't forsee a GAN in the immediate future but perhaps something down the road if a few interested editors become involved in the article.-Classicfilms (talk) 15:56, 10 October 2015 (UTC)

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