Talk:Varadero

End of apartheid

Hello my name is Yasel and I am Cuban The Cubans have always been able to enter to Varadero and all their areas even the most exclusive... recently the government allowed to all cubans to stay in the deluxe hotels eliminating the apartheid.... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 200.55.134.5 (talk) 15:51, 3 March 2009 (UTC)

Various removals

I have removed the following:

Varadero is the most famous beach in Cuba and the most famous sun and sand destination. It’s a mixture of many dreams, earlier perspectives, later on became projects and eventually facts. At this paradisiacal point of the Cuban geography the visitor will find hotels, cabarets, restaurants, nautical offers, golf, and a bunch of options to make him feel at ease.

As we approach Varadero the ambience seems to change to one softer and lighter.

By the end of the XVIII century the French immigration made the city of Matanzas a rich and cult region, the most flourishing in that part of Cuba. Personalities like Fanny Elsser, Ana Pavlova, Sara Bernhardt and Adelina Patti visited the province and as one of its guests was Louis Philippe Albert d'Orleans, who would eventually, become the king of France.

The first because it seems a copyvio from:

Varadero is the most famous beach in Cuba and the most famous sun and sand destination. It’s a mixture of many dreams, earlier perspectives, later on became projects and eventually facts. At this paradisiacal point of the Cuban geography the visitor will find hotels, cabarets, restaurants, nautical offers, golf, and a bunch of options to make him feel at ease.

http://www.viajaporcuba.com/php/web.php?lang=eng&s=hoteles

The second just seems un-encyclopediac.

The third seems to relate to Matanzas, not Varadero.

-- Beardo 22:42, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

More Copyvio

In fact that whole of that addition seems to come from

http://www.cubatravel.cu/client/destinations/destinations.php?id=2&locale=en

who also claim copyright. They can't both have it !

I have also removed:

Out of Varadero, in Matanzas and in the Zapata Peninsula, one of Cuba’ most important ecosystems and the biggest reserve of swamps in the Caribbean. It natural rich environment shelters different species of wildlife, characterized by its high level of endemism.

Varadero is 140 km east of Havana and 30 km from Matanzas. There is sun light for 12 hours and average temperature is 25 °C.

-- Beardo 22:57, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

Tourist apartheid ?

I have taken out "Critics point out that Cuban citizens aren't permitted on most of Varadero's beaches, as the government prohibts this sort of contact in what is widely viewed as an effort to separate tourists from Cuban citizens, a practice that some refer to as "tourism apartheid." [1]"

As far as I am aware, Cubans can access Varadero's beaches without problem. I have certainly been on the beach in front of the Melia Las Americas within the last year, and seen many Cubans there. The article cited is four years old, and only talks about Varadero in vague terms anyway. It also contains other factual errors. -- Beardo 07:02, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

Generally, they are not allowed, or at least discouraged to go on the beaches on the north half o the Hicacos peninsula, the area of all-inclusive resorts. Sepsa is patrolling those beaches. I wouldn't call this tourist apartheit; it is common practice in other caribbean countries (including Mexico), and merly insures the tranquility of such resorts. Access is not reestricted at all in the town area, although I've seen security guards talking in an unfrendly manned to obvious jineteras. But apartheit IS a cuban reality, see cuban private access to cell phones or car rentals for example. --Qyd 13:24, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

Hi Beardo,

Alas, I've witnessed this practice many times - most recently in early August of this year. It is indeed an odd phenonemon, rather disquieting. Cheers. GabrielFoto

Well, i have been there many times and have talked to cubans and interacted, (i have a friend there, i have to visit him as he cant visit me :S) they and us (Im mexican, from cancún) have the same laws about beaches: They belong to the government, there cannot be private beaches and nobody can tell you or discourage you about not going to federal property (beach). They are not discouraged nor have prohibited to go to any beach. Everybody can go to any beach they want. About the cell phones, that is another story, different from the beach issue, but is true they didnt have permited to have cell phones. Any one who claims that somebody discourages the cubans or that there is a law against going to beaches is lying; the same with México, beaches are federal property, you cant build anything from 20 metters from the brake of the sea and you cant deny acces to other people. -Nominator —Preceding unsigned comment added by 189.131.85.169 (talk) 06:54, 1 December 2009 (UTC)

This paragraph needs some cleanup

See below:

Critics point out that Cuban citizens often aren't permitted on many of Varadero's beaches, as the hotels seek to reserve the beaches for their guests, and mostly Cubans cannot be guests in the hotels. Critics of the government see this as an effort to separate tourists from Cuban citizens, a practice that some refer to as "tourism apartheid."

The paragraph reads rather poorly. It also seems to suggest that the government has nothing to do with the practice. This would be incorrect as, the tourism industry is in fact run by the Cuban government - overseen by the Cuban military. I'm going to revert for now but, I feel we should get some consensus on this issue. If someone has a better way to proceed here - tack it up here!

Cheers,

Goatboy95 22:51, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

The problem is that many of those opposed to the Cuban government try to use this as part of their propaganda, whereas in Varadero it really is little different to the approach of beach hotels in other parts of the Carribbean. There is no single policy applied along the whole beach - each hotel does things differently. That implies that the policy is something done by individual hotels, and not some government scheme to exclude the locals. (Yes, the fact that the locals can't stay k;;io;iiothat all the actions taken by every hotel can be blamed directly on the government. -- Beardo 23:44, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

There is a big difference between the higher end all-inclusive resorts at the end of the peninsula (where cubans may not check in, and their presence on the beach is discouraged by security guards), and hotels in the town proper (a lot are open to cubans, such as the Sol y Mar). Some are mixed, for example the Oasis is used for foreign torist in season, and is open to cubans off-season. It's most probable that policies are dictated from upper management, but the picture is not black and white.--Qyd 00:28, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

ANd then those in the middle - such as the Melia Las Americas - most Cubans cannot use the facilities, but a lot come round the side onto the beach. -- Beardo 02:44, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

All in all, I suppose this is just a tough nut to crack - writing-wise. You've raised some valid points. Sigh - it just angers me to the core being turned back from some of the beaches. It's been embarassing and a great source of trouble - at least on my end. You're write in that not all the hotels have this as an issue. The idea of "tourism apartheid" certainly needs to be mentioned however. I'm going to see what I can put together on what is a rather seriuos issue and post on the discussion page. I would imagine we can all work on this together to get something factual and important.

Best.

Goatboy95 15:26, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

I've just written a section on the Tourism in Cuba page on this subject Goatboy if you are interested, and have replied on my talk page.--Zleitzen 15:37, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

One more thing - Beardo - you've also got to realize that the practice was anything but a propaganda front. This was a real practice, experienced by thousands of Cubans over the years - myself included. I realize you're not Cuban and that the belief that the practice was mere "propaganda" is understandable but, it's something that needs to be touched on since it was going on in very recent years. Seems to me however, that the practice is indeed on the wain - as so much negative press was generated in the past, that those in power were forced to implement changes.

Goatboy95 16:03, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

GB - no I am not Cuban, but my wife and son are. I am not saying that there are no restrictions - just that they caught up in the propaganda. (Have you visited beaches in front of hotels in Cancun or the DR ?) Whatever the position, many Cubans do go to Varadero. I think a distinction must be drawn with (say) Cayo Coco, where the only Cubans allowed onto the island have to have written permission. -- Beardo 23:47, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

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