Talk:Varanus salvadorii/GA1

GA Review

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Nice article! A few points need attention, but it's within a whisker of GA already.

Thanks for the nice review. I will get working on it, but remember that V. salvadorii has been poorly studied in comparison to the Komodo dragon. There have been no long term studies in the wild on it yet, and there is still a lot to be discovered about it in terms of physiology, phylogeny, etc. I've alerted my collab buddy Mike Searson for some help, because he has access to more sources than I do. bibliomaniac15 02:30, 6 November 2008 (UTC)

Distribution

•  Done Need to clarify and wikilink the geographical terms. I've copyedited. What do you think of the result?
  • Yep, looks good.
•  Done Needs a map to show the location. I've added one.
  • The map implied that the monitor occurred throughout New Guinea when that is not the case. I will be working on a better range map.
    • Finished that. bibliomaniac15 00:43, 15 November 2008 (UTC)
      • Thanks, Bibliomaniac15. I've noticed that the text says "the extent of its range is unknown", so the range in the map needs a ref. --Philcha (talk) 09:08, 15 November 2008 (UTC)
•  Done Could do with a good pic to illustrate the skin coloration. The one in the zoo (Image:CrocMonitor.jpg) does this but it does not show up well at thumb size. I'd make a copy of it, crop it to focus on the lizard, and use that.
  • I've cropped the image.

Thanks. Yesterday I wanted the same result at Sponge but was fed up with cluttering my HD with images (and with the Upload Image tax return), and realised Template:Annotated image can crop and even over-write bits of images - see fossil sponge (cropped) and archaeocyathid (cropped, numbers in image over-written). --Philcha (talk) 10:49, 6 November 2008 (UTC)

Description

• What features distinguish it from the other 6 New Guinea varanids?

Shape of the head, length, the fact that it's strictly arboreal.

I mainly edit paleontology articles, where synapomorphies are important, i.e. really unambigous distinguishing featres. Length would not distinguish a juvenile, and arboreality would not identify a dead one. What's distinctive about the head? Or e.g. the coloration, which is often distinctive in birds? --Philcha (talk) 10:49, 6 November 2008 (UTC)

• What features make it a varanid?

Basic morphology and diet, plus I'm sure phylogeny.

Horn, H-G. (2004). "Varanus salvadorii". In Pianka, E.R., King, D., and King, R.A. (ed.). Varanoid Lizards of the World. Indiana University Press. pp. 234–244. ISBN 0253343666. Retrieved 2008-11-24.{{cite book}}: CS1 maint: multiple names: editors list (link) says how zoolgists identify it. I could not find a visual "field guide" of the type that's commmon for e.g. birds. --Philcha (talk) 22:21, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

• Needs minor copyedit, which I'll do after distinguishing and varanid features covered.
•  Done The verbal comparison with Komodo dragon is a bit of a tease, and in fact this article gives no adult weight for V.salvadorii. I'd consider a table.

I'll look, weight may be tricky.--Mike - Μολὼν λαβέ 03:39, 6 November 2008 (UTC)

Conservation status

•  Done Many countries have "Endangered Species" Acts. Is this the USA's? What about other countries, especially Papua New Guinea?

Not protected in its native range...they eat them and make drums from them.

Other major potential importing countries, e.g. in EU, Canada? --Philcha (talk) 10:49, 6 November 2008 (UTC)

CITES covers that. I've inserted a brief explanation of what Appendix II means. bibliomaniac15 21:42, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

Things that should be covered if possible

•  Done Any other interactions with humans besides biting and croc warnings, e.g. stealing livestock, uses of parts of the lizard by humans (apart from drumskins), spreading diseases to humans or livestock?

The do not live close to where humans live...people have to go into the jungles and mangroves to find them. These are not like the water or mangrove monitors.--Mike - Μολὼν λαβέ 00:25, 24 November 2008 (UTC)

•  Done Phylogeny. Not hugely detailed, but covering relationships to lizards in general, varanids in general and a handful of very closely-related varanids.

Googling for "Varanus savadorii distinguishing distinctive feature synapomorphy" got nothing at all. Googling for "Varanid varanidae distinguishing distinctive feature synapomorphy" got me "The Evolution of Species of the Varanidae - Microcomplement Fixation Analysis of Serum Albumins" and Googling for "The Evolution of Species of the Varanidae - Microcomplement Fixation Analysis of Serum Albumins" to see what cited produced many promising-looking leads, although probably most are more relevant to the family Varanidae. --Philcha (talk) 10:49, 6 November 2008 (UTC)

This page might be useful. It is by Eric Pianka, one of the authorities on monitor lizards. bibliomaniac15 04:37, 7 November 2008 (UTC)

Would you like me to insert a cladogram based on Pianka's but simplified as appropriate? --Philcha (talk) 10:55, 1 December 2008 (UTC)

•  Done How and when it got to New Guinea, and from where. Indonesia, New Guinea and Australia all have well-known varanids, of 3 different lineages according to one page I saw, so there may be quite an interesting story there.

They really have their own niche, again not enough study has been done on this.--Mike - Μολὼν λαβέ 00:25, 24 November 2008 (UTC)

• Metabolism. IIRC varanids have above-average BMR for lizards, and an air-gulping mechanism that provides a partial work-round for Carrier's constraint. Has any one done any lab tests on V.salvadorii or any very close relatives?

This stuff may be tricky, it is not a widely studied animal and its range is extremely remote and difficult to get through.--Mike - Μολὼν λαβέ 03:41, 6 November 2008 (UTC)

I understand that, paleo has analogous problems, not to mention some areas of modern zoology. I've worked with you before and if you say there's no material, I'll believe you. --Philcha (talk) 10:49, 6 November 2008 (UTC)

Molnar, R.E, and Pianka, E.R. (2004). "Biogeography and Phylogeny of Varanoids". In Pianka, E.R., King, D., and King, R.A. (ed.). Varanoid Lizards of the World. Indiana University Press. pp. 68–76. ISBN 0253343666. Retrieved 2008-11-24.{{cite book}}: CS1 maint: multiple names: authors list (link) has usable material on metabolism of varanids. --Philcha (talk) 10:55, 1 December 2008 (UTC)

I'll examine the lead, refs, use and copyright of images and other nitty-gritty stuff when the points above are resolved. --Philcha (talk) 10:50, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

Is anything happening here? The last comment in this review was a week ago. --Philcha (talk) 11:02, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

This review started 15 days ago, and the pace is still dead slow. For all the points I've raised above, please either do something about them or explain why nothing can or should be done. --Philcha (talk) 09:49, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

My conclusion is simply that there's just not a whole lot published about these guys. If I could find what you're asking for in a reliable printed source I'd put it in there.--Mike - Μολὼν λαβέ 00:22, 24 November 2008 (UTC)

I agree. The only thing we could maybe add with some confidence is evolutionary history, and even that's not very specific for V. salvadorii. bibliomaniac15 02:52, 24 November 2008 (UTC)

Re phylogeny and possibly migration routes & history, Molnar, R.E, and Pianka, E.R. (2004). "Biogeography and Phylogeny of Varanoids". In Pianka, E.R., King, D., and King, R.A. (ed.). Varanoid Lizards of the World. Indiana University Press. pp. 68–76. ISBN 0253343666. Retrieved 2008-11-24.{{cite book}}: CS1 maint: multiple names: authors list (link) looks right on the money. I found it from Pianka's page that bibliomaniac mentioned earlier. That web page also contains a tentative cladogram, and with the book to cite as well it's clear Pianka is an authority. In the same book, Horn, H-G. (2004). "Varanus salvadorii". In Pianka, E.R., King, D., and King, R.A. (ed.). Varanoid Lizards of the World. Indiana University Press. pp. 234–244. ISBN 0253343666. Retrieved 2008-11-24.{{cite book}}: CS1 maint: multiple names: editors list (link) seems to have almost everything else you (or I) ever wanted to know about this lizard. This article already cites the book in a vague sort of way. Now mine it out quickly, before Google Books changes it's mind!

Moral: Google Books can save you $$$ and hours. --Philcha (talk) 17:40, 24 November 2008 (UTC)

There was a reason why I cited "Varanoid Lizards of the World" twice, in the format that I used. Refs to books are expected to specify pages or page ranges for specific points (Wikipedia:Cite#Including_page_numbers). I generally treat a chapter as equivalent to a journal article, mainly to stop the refs list at the bottom from getting humungous. If you open the edit window for this section you can copy the correct citation formats. --Philcha (talk) 22:48, 24 November 2008 (UTC)

Come on, guys, this has dragged on for far too long. There's not much left to do, and we know where the sources are. --Philcha (talk) 22:21, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

Sorry been mega-swamped with work, home, and writing a screenplay...will have something available to contribute to this midweek!--Mike - Μολὼν λαβέ 21:05, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

• I'd say fail the article in the next couple days if the final issues aren't dealt with; if they are then pass; the on hold period should've been over a month ago. Wizardman 20:21, 19 December 2008 (UTC)
  • What exactly needs to be done? It looks like I answered everything weeks ago. --Mike - Μολὼν λαβέ 01:37, 20 December 2008 (UTC)

The bullets that don't have ticks. --Philcha (talk) 09:40, 20 December 2008 (UTC)

Metabolism and description? I don't know what else to add. Fail it if you must, it's still better than the bulk of what passes for GA's out there.--Mike - Μολὼν λαβέ 16:02, 20 December 2008 (UTC)

It would have helped if you'd posted comments, preferably under the bullet items, when you'd finished.

I've revised the lead, and am now passing this article as a GA. --Philcha (talk) 16:58, 20 December 2008 (UTC)

DOH! Sorry about that.--Mike - Μολὼν λαβέ 17:29, 20 December 2008 (UTC)

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