Talk:Vegetarianism and wine

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 24 June 2019 and 16 August 2019. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Kirstiehenry123. Peer reviewers: Patereau.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 12:17, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

Is there a reason for this article?

If I combine the knowledge gained from Veganism and from Wine, what else is gained from this article? I know vegans don't eat products made from animal products, and I can learn that some wines use animal products in their production, therefore I can deduce that some wine qualifies as vegan and some does not. This article appears to be more about non-animal-based finings, and should probably just be merged. Kellen^T 13:33, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

I would disagree with the need for the merge. While finings would certainly be an important and sizable component of this article, there is also room for expansion that would be inappropriate in the Fining article such as labeling issues, organizations that certify vegan wine producers as well as consumer market trends within the wine industry. There are plenty of reliable sources and room for expansion that merits an individual article. Agne^Cheese/^Wine 17:07, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

I agree that this subject deserves an independent article. --Amir E. Aharoni (talk) 10:34, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

I also agree that this article should not be merged. After all, Kosher wine has its own article. This one is just as important.--nk, 03:22, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

Quote: For grape wines, the juice is usually contaminated with a variety of entrained, liquefied insects and arachnids etc,[1] so producing a truly vegetarian or vegan friendly wine would be very difficult regardless of the type of fining agents used. <- This is the entire point of the article. Turns out, wine is never vegitarian :P Kuriosly (talk) 07:47, 20 November 2013 (UTC)

WikiProject Food and drink Tagging

This article talk page was automatically added with {{WikiProject Food and drink}} banner as it falls under Category:Food or one of its subcategories. If you find this addition an error, Kindly undo the changes and update the inappropriate categories if needed. The bot was instructed to tagg these articles upon consenus from WikiProject Food and drink. You can find the related request for tagging here . Maximum and careful attention was done to avoid any wrongly tagging any categories , but mistakes may happen... If you have concerns , please inform on the project talk page -- TinucherianBot (talk) 06:03, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

Name change

There has been a challenge to the name change from Vegan wine to Vegetarianism and wine. As with beer, wine is not made from animal products, though finings may be used to clarify the product. As with beer, as wine is normally free from animal products the bulk of production is acceptable to vegetarians and vegans.

A query was raised on DYK regarding the article Vegetarian beer, that the article - same as Vegan wine - was more about the processing of the product that made it unacceptable to vegans/vegetarians. Following discussions, a name change was felt to be appropriate. Non-vegetarian beer was considered and rejected, and the decision was to use the more accurate title Vegetarianism and beer. Following that logic I changed the title of this article. Looking at this article, the same problems arise with the name Vegan wine - the article is actually about the processing of a vegetarian and vegan product using animal products that makes the product no longer acceptable to vegetarians and/or vegans. There are other title alternatives, and if people are uncomfortable with Vegetarianism and wine then we can consider them. Possibles are Non-vegan wine or Non-vegetarian wine as the article is actually about non-vegan and non-vegetarian wine, Wine processing, Finings used in wine production, etc.

An objection to the title is that veganism and vegetarianism are different concepts. Vegan is a subset of vegetarian, and as the article includes discussion of animal products as well as fish products the more emcompasing term is appropriate (Gelatin and Blood are animal products). A split out of the material that relates to vegetarians into a new Vegetarian wine article would be a split too far as material relating to vegetarianism can be dealt with in this article at the same time as the material relating to veganism. SilkTork *^YES! 11:25, 17 February 2009 (UTC)

As there has been no response and no further objections I will proceed with the name change. If anyone would like to discuss this further, please get in touch with me. SilkTork *^YES! 11:20, 19 February 2009 (UTC)

Dear SilkTork, this is not just a matter of name change. This was an article on vegan wine until you removed the term and the explanation of it + moved it to "Vegetarianism and wine". If you feel the need to have an article on "vegetarianism and wine", and feel that you have the competence to write on this subject, please go ahead and create the article. However, this does not change the fact that an article on vegan wine, i.e. this article, belongs within WP:WINE, since it is a term actually used in the wine industry. Thus, it is more central than an essay on "vegetarianism and wine". Do not remove the explanation of this term again without discussing it on our project page. Thank you. Tomas e (talk) 23:40, 7 March 2009 (UTC)

This matter was discussed on DYK in relation to Vegetarian beer and the decision was made to change the title to Vegetarianism and beer. This article was then moved to conform with that title. There are several reasons why the article is inappropriate as Vegan wine, and I'd be quite happy to talk through the issues as there may be reasons to keep it as Vegan wine that I am not aware of. There is also the option of getting a Wikipedia:Third opinion. And there is also the option of reverting me. You are free, of course, to select whichever option you feel most appropriate in the circumstances. SilkTork *^YES! 01:17, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

MOG

MOG is the wine industry term for "material other than grapes." When the harvester (machine) comes through, everything on the grape vine is collected. This always includes bugs like yellow jackets, ladybugs, spiders and LOTS of earwigs; but can also include birds, snakes, mice, staples, leaves, vine shoots, and weeds. Now, 99% of this MOG will get removed at the sorting table. Or, if there is no sorting table at the winery, it's on to the de-stemmer. This machine will get rid of some of the MOG, but the stems, twigs, and animals don't fit through the berry holes in this machine are therefore pressed with the grapes.

This should be a concern for vegans because they choose not to eat honey for reasons regarding the ethical treatment of bees. This should be a concern for vegetarians because the choose not to eat animals (including the rodents and bugs that are contained in trace amounts in wine). While vermin and insects are killed during the production and harvesting of virtually all packaged or processed foods, mog causes special concern because the juice of these creatures remains within the final product. 97.119.92.235 (talk) 05:06, 19 October 2010 (UTC)billy

References