Talk:Vergina Sun

External links modified

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I have just modified 4 external links on Vergina Sun. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

• Added archive http://web.archive.org/web/20090328051044/http://www.bankofgreece.gr:80/en/ to http://www.bankofgreece.gr/en
• Added archive http://web.archive.org/web/20090305040315/http://www.southeasteurope.org/documents/0009albminorities.pdf to http://www.southeasteurope.org/documents/0009albminorities.pdf
• Added archive http://web.archive.org/web/20031102053433/http://www.kzu.ch:80/fach/as/aktuell/2000/04_vergina/verg_04.htm to http://www.kzu.ch/fach/as/aktuell/2000/04_vergina/verg_04.htm
• Added archive http://web.archive.org/web/20051124191546/http://fotw.net:80/flags/gr-maced.html to http://www.fotw.net/flags/gr-maced.html

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External links modified

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I have just modified one external link on Vergina Sun. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20090325011434/http://untreaty.un.org/unts/120001_144071/6/3/00004456.pdf to http://untreaty.un.org/unts/120001_144071/6/3/00004456.pdf

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More images in the gallery

I think the gallery is missing many images explicitly related to the Kingdom of Macedon. I have uploaded a sample of images, prior to having them being reverted by another user --Beat of the tapan (talk) 21:51, 1 September 2019 (UTC)

The gallery seems to have plenty of images explicitly related to the Kingdom of Macedon. I have a feeling that this about something else. That the image gallery is missing images "explicitly related" to something else... Khirurg (talk) 22:44, 1 September 2019 (UTC)

2/8 images are directly related to Macedon, maybe 3/8 if we emphasis Bactria as a component of ancient Macedonian history. Do not forget, the symbols spike in popularity is due to it's heavy use in the Kingdom of Macedon. --Beat of the tapan (talk) 02:26, 2 September 2019 (UTC)

By the way, don't think I'm pushing any agendas here. One of the images I uploaded which consisted of an excavated shield from North Macedonia has Greek writing on it. I also added images from Greece. Again, the gallery in its current state has a poor representation of the rich heritage of the symbol. Some of the current images do not do justice, and obviously don't have the symbol as a highlight. I am not saying to delete these, but there is no harm in adding other images. Worse comes to worse in regard to the space taken by the gallery it can be moved to the bottom of the page Beat of the tapan (talk) 09:22, 2 September 2019 (UTC)

Two of the images you added were passable, but of the other two you added, one is very poor quality, the other doesn't even have the star on it (the one with the shield). I can think of only one reason to add such images, and it's not a good one. Khirurg (talk) 18:33, 2 September 2019 (UTC)

I'm actually not sure what you are getting at here, or what you think these "reasons" are. The first shield has 4 eight-rayed suns and a 1/3 of a large 16-rayed sun in the center. I can tell you the sun is more obvious than on a quarter of the images we already have in the gallery. The other shield maybe of low quality, but it is used in the Kingdom of Macedon article and it's one of the very few found artifacts that is actually a shield with the sun on the centre. The one that I uploaded which was found in Epirus also falls victim to your argument, with that being heavily faded. Maybe you're the one with "reasons" here. --Beat of the tapan (talk) 22:05, 2 September 2019 (UTC)

Keep in mind that there shouldn't really be image galleries in articles anyway, as it goes against Wikipedia guidelines that Wikipedia is not an image gallery. --Michail (blah) 08:09, 3 September 2019 (UTC)

Okay, I will take note of that. One more thing I will like to say is that the current gallery looks off when viewing the article on certain monitors. Incomplete image grids are not visually appealing, nor encyclopedic Beat of the tapan (talk) 09:55, 3 September 2019 (UTC)

Historic use outside of ancient Greece

It's pretty obvious that the symbol has heavy usage outside of ancient greece, therefore it is not exclusively a Greek symbol. Non-Greek usage includes, but are not limited to:

• Roman wall murals in the grotto of Gethsemane, Jerusalem (eight-rayed, no image)

• Coat arms of the Armenian Artaxiad dynasty (eight-rayed):

• Columns in the church of St Dimitrija in Bitola (sixteen-rayed, no image)

Furthermore, how do we even distinguish between the so-called Vergina Sun and these almost identical symbols? I think a section is needed on the matter. --Beat of the tapan (talk) 02:00, 15 February 2020 (UTC)

@Beat of the tapan We cannot. It is also the symbol found on frescoes. But in case of Hellenic domain, we can say it was used by Hellens and people coming in contact with them.

In case of this article, it deals only about Hellenic domain.

Perhaps you can create another article which is an analysis of symbol use in different cultures and parts of the world Pixius talk 20:43, 22 February 2023 (UTC)

I see 16 rays in the Vergina Sun and only 8 in the symbols you reference. Just because they all symbolise the sun it doesn't make them the same symbol. Yes they look similar but that doesn't make all the suns the Vergina Sun (the one found on the remains of Philip II). --CapJoe2 21:20, 16 April 2020 (UTC)

There is no objective differentiation between the Vergina Sun and identical symbols, unless the symbol as the name implies is located in modern-day Vergina. Beat of the tapan (talk) 05:24, 18 April 2020 (UTC)