Talk:Vic

Move discussion in progress

There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Vic which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 04:02, 25 April 2024 (UTC)

post-move

In May, the clickstreams (https://wikinav.toolforge.org/?language=en&title=Vic) show 2118 incoming views, of which 335 to the Catalan/Spanish town (~15.8%), 39 to people list (~1.9%), and 17 to the state of Victoria (0.8%). It seems like an improvement, but it sure seems like we're still not navigating most readers well. --Joy (talk) 08:57, 17 June 2024 (UTC)

In June, the total views were 1749[1], and the clickstreams say:

clickstream-enwiki-2024-06.tsv:

• Vic Vic,_Spain link 265 (~15% / ~79%)
• Vic Vic_(name) link 51 (~3% / ~15%)
• Vic Victoria_(state) link 10 (0.5% / ~3%)
• Vic V.I.C. link 10 (0.5% / ~3%)
• total: 336 to 4 identified destinations

10 is also the anonymization threshold, so there's probably a long tail. --Joy (talk) 08:39, 18 July 2024 (UTC)

Since then the incoming traffic for the Spanish town has definitely recovered, and the clickstreams are:

July 1787 views, clickstream-enwiki-2024-07.tsv:

• Vic Vic,_Spain link 317 (~18% / ~78%)
• Vic Vic_(name) link 60
• Vic Victoria_(state) link 15
• Vic V.I.C. link 13
• total: 405 to 4 identified destinations

August 1617 views, clickstream-enwiki-2024-08.tsv:

• Vic Vic,_Spain link 320 (~20% / ~81%)
• Vic Vic_(name) link 49
• Vic V.I.C. link 13
• Vic Victoria_(state) link 11
• total: 393 to 4 identified destinations

Note that this doesn't include filtered clickstreams, but WikiNav for August shows 111 or ~6%. --Joy (talk) 07:15, 6 September 2024 (UTC)

French places

Clarityfiend are you sure that the Vic-* toponymy in France is just a partial match? It sounds like it's covered by WP:PTM part that says Placenames are often divided between a specific and generic part, for example North Carolina (where "Carolina" is the specific, and "North" the generic part). In this case the list included:

• Vic-sur-Aisne (02 Aisne)
• Vic-sur-Cère (15 Cantal) in south-central France
• Vic-de-Chassenay (21 Côte-d'Or)
• Vic-des-Prés (21 Côte-d'Or)
• Vic-sous-Thil (21 Côte-d'Or)
• Vic-le-Fesq (30 Gard)
• Vic-Fezensac (32 Gers) in south-western France
• Vic-la-Gardiole (34 Hérault) in southern France
• Vic-sur-Seille (57 Moselle) in north-eastern France
• Vic-le-Comte (63 Puy-de-Dôme)
• Vic-en-Bigorre (65 Hautes-Pyrénées) in south-western France

These names clearly mean Vic in Aisne, Vic in Cere, Vic of Chassenay, etc, so it's naturally disambiguated, but they're all still Vic just like North Carolina is a Carolina, no?

Maybe this needs to be brought up at Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style/France- and French-related articles so it's clarified there. --Joy (talk) 14:25, 17 June 2024 (UTC)

The broader issue of whether something like North Carolina should be included in Carolina (disambiguation) needs to be resolved. MOS:DABNOENTRY states: "On a page called Title, do not create entries merely because Title is part of the name ... This does not apply if the subject is commonly referred to simply by Title." North Carolina is not referred to simply as Carolina, New York is never called York, and while I'm not French, it makes sense to me that the same applies to Vic-whatever. The wording in WP:PTM seems to contradict DABNOENTRY, so I think this should be discussed at Wikipedia talk:Disambiguation. Clarityfiend (talk) 14:39, 17 June 2024 (UTC)

In fact, I'm going to start one there. Clarityfiend (talk) 14:44, 17 June 2024 (UTC)

These would never be referred to as plain "Vic" in French (except perhaps informally by locals, when the context is clear). The word derives from Latin vicus meaning village, so listing them all on the Vic dab page would be rather like listing Edinburgh, Pittsburgh and Greenburgh on Burgh (disambiguation) Rosbif73 (talk) 15:24, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

@Rosbif73 this contradicts with what @Markussep wrote at the other talk page - it is also described as signposted like that. If an average English reader encounters such a label in the real world, what would be the best way to try to help them understand what the "Vic" in the sign is referring to? --Joy (talk) 17:51, 26 June 2024 (UTC)

Sorry, I can't find which other talk page you're referring to. Rosbif73 (talk) 18:37, 26 June 2024 (UTC)

The other talk page is here. I don't think you should compare "Vic" with Edinburgh etc., since those obviously are never referred to as simply "Burgh". A better comparison would be Burg (for instance Burg bei Magdeburg), or Stoke. Markussep ^Talk 07:40, 27 June 2024 (UTC)