Talk:Vickers Wellesley

Survivors

Do any still exist? Drutt 11:34, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

- I don't think any survived WW2 Nigel Ish 20:47, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

Geodesicity

There are some typos in this article. In the header and also in the text, the construction is called "geodesic". It should be geodetic. This is a common mistake although there are a number of references correctly to geodetic.

204.80.187.231 (talk) 00:32, 31 October 2010 (UTC) Colin Lamb

Colin, these are the pertinent definitions:

• geodesic line: The shortest line on a mathematically derived surface, between two points on the surface. Also called geodesic. A geodesic line on the spheroidal earth is called a geodetic line.
• geodesy: The science which deals mathematically with the size and shape of the earth, and the earth's external gravity field, and with surveys of such precision that overall size and shape of the earth must be taken into consideration.
• geodetic: Of or pertaining to geodesy; geodesic. FWiW Bzuk (talk) 01:18, 31 October 2010 (UTC)

Barnes Wallis appears to have called it Geodetic - as does Andrews and Morgan.Nigel Ish (talk) 10:49, 31 October 2010 (UTC)

As far as I can tell, the words and meaning are the same. FWiW Bzuk (talk) 12:58, 31 October 2010 (UTC).

Kellet

The "R. Kellett" who led the record-breaking Wellesley flight in 1938 appears to be Ronald Kellett (Can we confirm this?). Is he any relation of the Richard Kellett who led the disastrous raid on Wilhelmshaven in December 1939. Brothers perhaps? Drutt (talk) 19:28, 5 April 2011 (UTC)

The leader of the Wellesley flight was Squadron Leader (later Wing Commander) Richard Kellett. He was born in Devon and not Durham, unlike the slightly younger Ronald Kellett, and he went to a different school, so they don't seem to have been brothers, unless the family moved around a lot. Richard did lead the Wellington formation in the Battle of Heligoland Bight and was later shot down over the Western Desert in September '42, was taken prisoner and was SBO (Senior British Officer) in Stalag Luft III at the time of the 'Wooden Horse' escape in '43. He was promoted acting Group Captain and later temporary Air Commodore and he was awarded the CBE, the DFC and the Mention in Dispatches. He was medically retired from the RAF in 1947, but lived on until 1990 and was perhaps less well known and less publicly recognised than he should have been. But he may not have minded about that, because his kind of man didn't. https://www.tracesofwar.com/persons/49171/Kellett-Richard.htm Khamba Tendal (talk) 17:37, 31 August 2021 (UTC)

Cockpit

The article says "The Wellesley Mk I had two cockpits but this was changed in the Wellesley Mk II to a single-piece cockpit canopy covering the pilot and navigator positions." No it wasn't. On the "Wellesley MkII" (never an official designation) the front cockpit was extended rearward, but it still did not reach or incorporate the so-called "second cockpit" which was the gunners position. This can clearly be seen in numerous photos and diagrams of the aircraft, including the one of the damaged Wellesley featured on the page. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.173.221.115 (talk) 15:01, 22 October 2019 (UTC)

References

Operational history

Cannot help but think the section on operational history needs expanding. The Wellesley was involved in an intensive period of conflict over Italian Eritrea, Abyssinia (Ethiopia) and British Somaliland. Operating from bases in both Sudan and the Aden Protectorate. The results of some of the bombing raids it performed could be said to have had strategic importance. There is currently more in this section about a single Italian CR42 pilot than about any of the Wellesley's combat missions (for example one Wellesley crew managed to shoot down an Italian S81 bomber). Also there is no mention of the Wellesley's use on anti-submarine patrols in the Eastern Mediterranean, including attacks on Italian and German submarines.

References

Two Seat?

The description says "Two-Seat medium bomber". The Wellesley was a THREE Seat aircraft with accommodation for a pilot, navigator/bomb-aimer and gunner. The navigator/bomb-aimer sat in between the pilot and gunners p[osition and had his own windows on both sides of the fuselage, along with a bomb-aimer's position and bombsight under the pilot. In operations in East Africa additional guns were fitted that could be fired out by the navigator/bomb-aimer out of the side-windows and through an improvised ventral position. It is true that the aircraft was sometimes flown on operations with only a two-man crew, but only if no opposition was expected, or to save weight on extended missions or with greater payloads. On the record-breaking long-distance flights by the LRDU to Ismalia and Australia three-man crews were always carried. I find the use of the word "cockpit" to describe the gunner's position really irksome. A pilot did not sit there, it had no flying controls, so should not be called a cockpit. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.173.221.115 (talk) 16:05, 22 October 2019 (UTC)

Regardless of whether it irks you or not, cockpit is correct English for both pilot and gunner's position (and is derived from the cramped junior naval officers quarters aboard RN ships), and for a short while after entering service, they were in fact two-seaters, the third seat for the bomb aimer only being added later - after having been tested with the long-range development unit aircraft. - NiD.29 (talk) 07:47, 23 October 2019 (UTC)

Great to see the changes in the article, two-seat changed to two, later three. Excellent. I understand the Cockpit controversy, but Wikipedia's own page on Cockpit specifies it as where control of the aircraft is effected from, where the flight instruments are situated. One of the quoted derivations of "cockpit" comes from its use to mean the "seat of control" which is surely where its use in aviation stems from. I know of no other aircraft where any other crew members station, other than the pilot or trainee pilot is called a cockpit (would you call the gunners position on a Fairey Battle or a Me 110 a "cockpit"?). I suggest its just the Wellesley's somewhat unique configuration where the gunner's position looks like a second pilot's cockpit that has led to its use, but that in turn might lead some people to believe the position had full flight controls and instruments fitted, which it did not. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.173.221.115 (talk) 10:28, 23 October 2019 (UTC)

Errors are other wiki pages don't confine definitions here, and the definition from google: 1.

a compartment for the pilot, and sometimes also the crew, in an aircraft or spacecraft. (taken from the Oxford dictionary) - NiD.29 (talk) 16:17, 23 October 2019 (UTC)

References

Red Sea?

The article says 47 Squadron carried out its later maritime patrol duties over the Red Sea. In fact it operated over the Eastern Mediterranean from bases in Northern Egypt and Palestine. During this period they participated in the actions that sank the U-559 and recovered the code-sheets that enabled the reading of the German Navy 4 rotor enigma for a while. A Wellesley also participated in the actions that led to the sinking of the U-372. The Squadron continued to fly patrols in Wellesleys until 28th February 1943 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.100.216.20 (talk) 17:27, 21 December 2021 (UTC)

References