Talk:Vladimir Mayakovsky

Untitled

The second sentence here:

After his death, Mayakovsky was attacked in the Soviet press as a "formalist" and a "fellow-traveller". In 1935, Stalin wrote a remark on Lilya Brik's letter to him:

took me more than one reading to work out what it appears to mean - that Lilya Brik wrote to Stalin (about Mayakovsky?) - perhaps it could be rephrased to something like:

After his death, Mayakovsky was attacked in the Soviet press as a "formalist" and a "fellow-traveller". When, in 1935, his widow Lilya Brik wrote to Stalin (about this?), Stalin wrote a remark on Brik's letter: ...

I'm hesitating to make the chagne myself because I'm still not 100% sure. Palmiro | Talk 18:57, 19 November 2005 (UTC)

Good suggestion. I made the change, thanks. ←Humus sapiens←ну? 06:30, 20 November 2005 (UTC)

It is unclear why Lilya Brik is his widow. There is no mention of marriage in the main text. When did they marry?

Guys, be careful here. Lilya was never Mayakovskiy's wife (despite this fact she always insisted that she was his widow de facto).

Elli Jones?

For God's sake, guys, what is this stuff? http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=%22elli+jones%22+mayakovsky+-%22on+a+lecture+tour%22+-wikipedia&btnG=Search Not a single page on the internet except those at wikipedia and forums discussing pages thereof and gained knowledge therefrom. --Dennis Elli Jones' daughter is Yelena V. Mayakovskya http://www.peterlang.com/download/datasheet/45506/datasheet_65783.pdf --jimknock

Photo

The photo seems a little funky. It seems to be the right half of this taken with Frida Kahlo. One of them has been reversed. http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=415723575159941&set=a.405092536223045.93125.405001542898811&type=1&ref=nf --jimknock — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jimknock (talk • contribs) 20:25, 7 December 2012 (UTC)

Ethnicity

I am removing vandalism on Mayakovsky's ethnicity. Any claims should be supported by serious references.ISasha (talk) 05:28, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

in addition (to Riwnodennyk) - please find a better explanation why you consider Vladimir Mayakovsky an ethnic Ukrainian. This must be the influence of the present-day Ukrainian propaganda who now claim Jesus Christ was also of Ukrainian descent. The external link that you provided describes how Mayakovsky's mother told him of his Ukrainian Cossack relatives (from her side), to which is said: "I've never seen or met any of them..."

Володя внимательно выслушал мой рассказ. Он знал только бабушку Евдокию Никаноровну. О других сказал: - Я никого не видел и не знаю... What a great reason to name Mayakovsky an ethnic Ukrainian! ISasha (talk) 11:01, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

As it's written in the article, his father was Ukrainian, and mother too. No doubt, his works are the part of Soviet literature. However how could he be ethic Russian when parents are Ukrainian?--Riwnodennyk ✉ 11:22, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

Fine! What makes him an ethnic Ukrainian? Tell me! His mother was a Kuban Cossack which means Russian. Kuban was never part of Malorossia. No-one denies the fact that she had Malorossian relatives, but it doesn't make Mayakovsky an ETHNIC Ukrainian. Especially ETHNIC Ukrainian. I live in Taganrog and I am 1/5 Ukrainian, but it does not make me an ethnic Ukrainian. I do not speak Ukrainian, I do not go to Ukrainian church, I do not know Ukrainian culture. Find some proof that Mayakovsky was indeed part of the Ukrainian Ethnic group and culture. ISasha (talk) 11:50, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

Mayakovsky's mother wrote this: „My father is Ukainian, from the former Kharkiv Gubernia. His relatives were speaking only Ukrainian. Grandpa was serving in 155th infantry Kubanian regiment, and later was moved to Armenia” [1] --Riwnodennyk ✉ 12:14, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

Or pay attention e.g. on such a memoir about Mayakosky from the same link: In the restaurant in Berlin he was asking waiter for dinner: Geben Sie ein Mittagessen mir und meinem Genius!". He was pronouncing “Genius” with the Ukrainian accent as “Henius” --Riwnodennyk ✉ 12:18, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

Anyway, did Mayakovsky speak a word of Ukrainian? No. Was he a Ukrainian Cossack and wore traditional Ukrainian costumes? No. Did he go to Ukrainian church? No. Did he as an "ethnic" Ukrainian write a line in Ukrainian language? No. He maybe was half Ukrainian by his descent, but he never was an ethnic Ukrainian. The same goes for Chekhov, Pushkin and Tolstoy. This is just ridiculous and needs no further discussion. ISasha (talk) 12:26, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

Heritage

Mayakovsky had no heir among Russian poets and his style was never properly analysed nor further developed.

It's too arguable. Mayakovsky was too famous, his writings joined school program and he deeply influenced Soviet poetry. For instance, Yevtushenko said As a poet, I wanted to mix something from Mayakovsky and Yesenin.[2] Such Mayakovsk's novelties as sophisticated rhymes and brocken rythm differ Russian poetry before and after him. —Preceding unsigned comment added by KonstKaras (talk • contribs) 18:51, 3 November 2008 (UTC) On other hand, he hade no exact clones/imitators, but himself hardly could like them. KonstKaras (talk) 19:51, 3 November 2008 (UTC)

Where can general questions about russian literature be discussed?

Idealist707 (talk) 11:02, 23 August 2011 (UTC)

Trivia in Legacy section

The Legacy section goes downhill with the discussion of Carmelo Bene. What is sourced from there on is promotional in nature. --Ronz (talk) 21:24, 2 April 2012 (UTC)

Any problems with the subsequent trimming and slight restructuring? I still think it's too much of a list and too little about his influence and legacy. --Ronz (talk) 17:17, 4 April 2012 (UTC)

Ethnicity (2)

Changed His father was of Ukrainian Cossack descent, and his mother was of Kuban Cossacks descent. - to a better sourced version (Russian father, Ukrainian mother). You see, the book cited, Mayakovsky Remembered by the contemporaries, is helpful in many ways but if there is one thing these "contemporaries": fail to enlighten us upon is, unfortunately, his parents' ethnicity. Well, at least I, having plodded through the larger part of this set of memoirs, found no mention of it. The reason why I picked up on this particular detail is that several other sources state the opposite: his father was Russian and mother, Pavlenko, Ukrainian. Mayakovsky himself stated: "I was born in the Caucasus, my father is a Cossack, my mother is Ukrainian. My mother tongue is Georgian. Thus three cultures are united in me."
Still, the 'Russian father/Ukrainian mother' version (which I chose for the obvious reason of it being better sourced) still looks dubious, since it remains unclear which (in regional terms) kind of a Cossack Mayakovsky-Sr. was. If indeed a Zaporozhian Cossack (and the mentioning of the Danilevsky line suggests he might have well been), then there is every reason to regard the poet an ethnic Ukrainian.
More sources would be welcome to disentangle this knot. -- Evermore2 (talk) 23:15, 10 February 2015 (UTC)

• Well, there we have it:
  Владимир Константинович ведет свой род от вольных казаков Запорожской Сечи, чем он очень гордился... Бабушка Володи Ефросинья Осиповна, урожденная Данилевская, приходилась двоюродной сестрой известному русскому и украинскому писателю Григорию Петровичу Данилевскому (1829-1890), автору исторических романов "Мирович", "Княжна Тараканова", "Сожженная Москва". Al. Mikhaylov
  So; mother Ukrainian, father a Zaporozhian Cossack/Ukrainian writer Danilevsky distant relative. Can Mayakovsky be said to be ethnic Russian? Apparently, only in the 19th century context, in that his ancestors were born in the Russian Empire. -- Evermore2 (talk) 08:30, 11 February 2015 (UTC)

Cyrillic

Any Russian readers that could Romanize the Cyrillic in the article (particularly titles of works) as per [[3]]?

--Goodpoints (talk) 15:03, 8 May 2015 (UTC)

Biographical info

You've got to be kidding me with this stuff.

More than half this article is sourced from random Russian sites with no provided translation or evidence of reliability. Especially when there are numerous academic and popular biographies published in English. (and I presume Russian)

And need I really say anything about the russapedia.rt and Haaretz articles?

Not the place for conspiracy theories regarding his death. WP:FRINGE/PS

--Goodpoints (talk) 15:03, 8 May 2015 (UTC)

• Strange that you've failed to recognize in Mikhaylov's book one of the two most comprehensive Mayakovsky biographies ever published (in any language, I'd venture to suggest) or put the authority of the Russian Biobibliographical Dictionary (the Iskrzhitskaya article) to doubt. But then, perhaps, you just do not understand the Russian language, which is a perfectly good excuse. All foreign sources look untrustworthy for the one who sees nothing but gibberish in them, don't they? Still, your opinion that one should have translated Mikhaylov's book before citing it, at least made me smile. The implied idea - that only the English-language sources are reliable while everything else is second-rate at best, - is very refreshing :) -- Evermore2 (talk) 05:36, 9 May 2015 (UTC)
• …So two of the randomly tagged sources are as reliable/academic as you can get. Others (from the list above) are – lets put it this way, disposable. Why did I have to use them? Because it would be easier that way: to start writing this article the other way round, by using the 'academic' sources and hoping to spend less than a lifetime upon it, would have been optimistic. Now, since the basic facts are more or less sorted, time indeed to remember there are some –

1. the 'truly academic' 13 volumes The Complete Works of… 1955-58, Khudozhestvennaya Literatura Publishers
2. Its 'popular' 6 vol. version, Pravda, 1973
3. the Biobibliographical Dictionary entry, Prosveshchenye, 1990
4. Alexander Mikhaylov's Mayakovsky (a comprehensive 1988 biography, the Molodaya Gvardia ЖЗЛ series),
5. The Chronology, 1893-1930 (Sovetsky Pisatel, 1985), by Vasily Katanyan - Lilya Brik’s stepson/partner of many years, the man in charge of this primal 13 Vols. ‘academic’ edition.
   

A mammoth pile of facts (and, lets face it, ideological nonsense too), so, surely, the English-language academia-related contributions would be most welcome. -- Evermore2 (talk) 19:32, 25 May 2015 (UTC)

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Vladimir Vladimirovich?

Yes, Christian name followed by patronymic is how someone is referenced in Russian. But this is English Wikipedia, wherein historical personages are referenced in their article by their surname only, or by whichever mononym typically designates them. Nuttyskin (talk) 19:18, 12 February 2023 (UTC)