Talk:Vladimiro Montesinos

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AAAA: In your most recent edit, you wrote in the edit summary:

What investigations showed that Montesinos gave the order to execute 13 MRTA terrorists?

In the link you provided, the text from APRODEH [1] states:

Zamudio era un lugarteniente de Montesinos, y durante el operativo de rescate estuvo informando y resolviendo cada consulta que le hacía no sólo el asesor, sino sobre todo el presidente Alberto Fujimori quien estuvo, como no se cansa de repetir, directamente sobre toda la operación.

You really think el ZAJ would have executed them without permission of Fujimori and Montesinos? These are army people; they follow orders from above. In any case, the text as it now stands indicates that up to eight may have been executed. I hope this is satisfactory. -- Viajero 19:50, 3 Mar 2005 (UTC)

• What I believe is that you are stating supposed "facts" without sources. You mentioned that "investigations showed that Montesinos gave the order to execute 13 MRTA terrorists". Right now, you accepted that only one to eight were executed (according to Aprodeh). So your first afrirmation was baseless. I am not sure how credible is Aprodeh (they sound to me like a left wing pro-terrorists organization), but until I find any other information, I agree to keep the article as per your last edit.--AAAAA 03:33, 4 Mar 2005 (UTC)

---

If you consider a Peruvian human rights organization like APRODEH "pro-terrorist" that is your opinion, to which your entitled, but your opinion of APRODEH is not relevant here. The organization has many useful documents from third-party sources on its website, including the one you cited yesterday. If you think the documents are falsified, this is a serious charge and you better have iron-clad proof. As for the "execution" of the Emerrtistas, the APRODEH site the following article from La Republica (20 de mayo del 2002), and I will quote extensively from it

General William admite que se dispararon tiros de gracia

Los comandos que el 22 de abril de 1997 rescataron a los 71 rehenes de la casa del embajador japonés en Lima "fueron instruidos para disparar a los subversivos en una parte vital del cuerpo", afirmó el general del EP José William Zapata, quien estuvo al mando de la preparación militar del los miembros del "Comando Chavín de Huántar".

William explicó que la técnica que utilizaron los militares que participaron en la acción fue la de disparar a los subversivos hasta asegurarse de que estén "fuera de combate".

Los comandos de Chavín de Huántar estaban entrenados para rematar con tiros de gracia a los terroristas, segùn el general José William Zapata.

"Nosotros combatimos utilizando una técnica denominada tiro instintivo selectivo, que se usa para combates muy próximos y en espacios muy reducidos. Consiste en hacer tres disparos a una parte vital del cuerpo, específicamente la cabeza, no a otro sitio porque puede quedar herido o fingir estar herido", manifestó el general.

El testimonio del general William, difundido en el programa "Contrapunto", explicaría por qué los terroristas fallecidos tenían huellas de tiros en la cabeza y contribuiría a la investigación de las supuestas ejecuciones extrajudiciales realizadas en la "Operación Chavín de Huántar".

Seguidamente, el alto oficial indicó que después de ejecutar los tres primeros tiros, los comandos estaban instruidos para acercarse a los cuerpos y les aplicaran un tiro de gracia para confirmar que estaban liquidados.

"Una vez hechos los tres disparos, el comando continúa su desplazamiento y llega hasta donde está el terrorista, baja el arma y dispara nuevamente para asegurarse que esté fuera de combate", explicó William. De acuerdo con las investigaciones forenses, ocho terroristas tenían balazos en la nuca, el cuello y otras partes de la cabeza. Los impactos los recibieron cuando se encontraban sometidos.

El general José William Zapata es uno de los 12 oficiales del Ejército que se encuentran con orden de detención preventiva, según lo determinó la jueza Cecilia Pollack Boluarte, por ser los presuntos responsables de los asesinatos de Nicolás Cruz Sánchez (a) "Tito", Luz Meléndez Cueva y Víctor Peceros Pedraza, terroristas que supuestamente se habían rendido antes de recibir los disparos que les causaron la muerte. [...] [from: http://www.aprodeh.org.pe/sem_verdad/comision_verdad/20may2002ii.htm]

This is technical language which means, in street talk, that they were given the command take no prisoners (ie, execute everyone). However, since we will never know exactly how many were killed in "combat" and how many were killed after they surrendered, I consider it a reasonable compromise to state that at least one and quite possibly as many as eight were, based on forensic evidence. However, that Montesinos and Fujimori ordered this is beyond doubt. Fujimori, as you know, took explict credit for having participated in the planning of the raid:

In an interview with the newspaper El Comercio, published on December 17, 1997, then President Alberto Fujimori stated that shortly after the embassy residence was seized, the President, the National Intelligence Service headed by Julio Salazar Monroe and Vladimiro Montesinos Torres, and the Joint Command of the Armed Forces under Army Commander General Nicolás de Bari Hermoza Rios had planned the operation to retake the residence. [2]

and it would have been unthinkable for the commandos to kill captives without haven been given the express order to. Finally, I have one factual question for you. This event is usually referred to as the "Japanese embassy hostage crisis" (and the equivalent in Spanish). However, the news reports indicate that it took place at the ambassador's residence. In some cases, embassadors do indeed live at the embassy; the building has living quarters. In most other cases, the enbassy and the ambassador's home are two separate buildings. Do you know which is the case here? My guess is that the word "embassy" was used in the media indiscriminately to refer to his house, probably becuase the term is more compact. -- Viajero 13:46, 4 Mar 2005 (UTC)

• • The Japanese Embassy is about one kilometer away from the -at the time- House of the Ambassador, where the events took place. Afterwards the Japanese Government bought a new house, which comprises a whole block and is surrounded by a double wall. -- alavena 06:30, 21 Sep 2005 (UTC)
• As per the "take no prisoners" strategy, I don't think it can be extrapolated to "ordered the execution". When you are in combat, you have to make sure the enemies cannot shoot at you. To order execution refers to killing enemies AFTER they surrender. Two different things.--AAAAA 06:30, 6 Mar 2005 (UTC)
• I think it's the ambassador's residence, but I am not 100% sure. I will investigate.--AAAAA 06:30, 6 Mar 2005 (UTC)
  • "Take no prisoners" means both: it means try to kill all your enemies in battle AND kill them after they have surrendered. Also, there are various ways of making sure your enemies cannot shoot you. You can kill them, you can wound them, you can threaten to shoot them, or you can incapacitate them with tear gas or something similar. Those commandos were highly trained and practiced the operation over and over again. It is certain they were given the order to kill all the hostages, including those who surrendered. How many were killed in the siege and how many were killed afterward we will be never know with 100% certainty, but there is strong evidence that at least three and as many as eight were killed afterward. Montesinos and Fujimori are considered culpable for having given this order. There is, of course, room for debate how we phrase this in this article. -- Viajero 11:15, 6 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Sale of MiG-29 fighter planes from Belarus

Concerning the information that the Govnt. of Peru payed USD $800 Million "though the actual cost of the planes is said to have been only around $100 Million" for 3 second-hand MiG-29's, how accurate is the 800 million figure? I've been doing some research and found smaller amounts. The info was put by 67.34.195.58 on 6 Jun 2004 06:45 Can anyone elaborate on this?? --Dynamax 22:49, 26 May 2005 (UTC)

This AP report [3] says "up to $300 million". HTH -- Viajero | Talk 07:59, 27 May 2005 (UTC)

The Trials of Vladimiro Montesinos

Is there anywhere that one could find a list of the various charges that have been filed against Montesinos? Aside from the FARC case, I'm not even sure what he's been found guilty of so far. It would be a good way to improve this article. --Descendall 04:15, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Rewrite

Same ol' grammar mistakes. I'll rewrite it later, including material from: http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2006/09/22/america/LA_GEN_Peru_Montesinos_Trial.php unless you have something more recent. 190.43.195.158 00:11, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

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A book must be added to bibliography

In my opinion, the book : The Imperfect Spy: The Many Lives of Vladimiro Montesinos, by Sally Bowen and Jane Holligan, is an excellent source of information about this dark character, Sally Bowen is a british journalist lived many years in Peru and she suffrered an unfair plaint by Montesinos about this book. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Alparla (talk • contribs) 14:22, 14 March 2020 (UTC)

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Undue Weight

Montesinos may be a horrible person, but there seems to be a weird focus on portraying him as some sort of puppetmaster of Fujimori who was in the pocket of the CIA, which is 1. pretty WP:FRINGE and 2. WP:UNDUE given the sheer amount of coverage of the guy. Allan Nonymous (talk) 16:05, 16 May 2024 (UTC)