Talk:Vladyslav Supryaha

Latest comment: 2 years ago by TheBirdsShedTears in topic Requested move 30 January 2022

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion

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The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion:

You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. —Community Tech bot (talk) 23:08, 13 July 2021 (UTC)Reply

Requested move 30 January 2022

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The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: not moved. (non-admin closure) TheBirdsShedTears (talk) 09:17, 11 February 2022 (UTC)Reply


Vladyslav SupryahaVladyslav Supryaga – "Supryaga" seems to be the most common spelling of the name, according to news articles (1.4k results). Supryaha (235), Supriaha (523) and Suprjaha (48) have less. Nehme1499 20:25, 30 January 2022 (UTC)Reply

That’s false. Please read WP:GOOG. Google’s “about X results” on the first page is wildly inaccurate. Page to the last results page, and you get Supryaga 233, Supriaha 142, Supryaha 54, Suprjaha 16. On the other hand, Advanced Book Search gives Supriaha 3, Supryaga 1. —Michael Z. 21:54, 31 January 2022 (UTC)Reply
  • Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related deletions. Nehme1499 20:29, 30 January 2022 (UTC)Reply
  • Oppose. Subject is a native-born Ukrainian playing in Italy on loan from a top Ukrainian club. The Ukrainian alphabet has no letter "g" and the Russian alphabet has no letter "h". There is no reason for the surname of a Ukrainian subject to be transliterated into English using transliteration applicable to Russian subjects. Furthermore, Supryaha's entry appears in 12 other Wikipedias, seven of which use the Latin alphabet and none of those use "g" — all seven use "h". —Roman Spinner (talkcontribs) 22:36, 30 January 2022 (UTC)Reply
@Roman Spinner: What other Wikipedias do doesn't concern us. Do you have any reason why we should specifically use Supryaha and not, say, Supriaha or Suprjaha? Nehme1499 23:36, 30 January 2022 (UTC)Reply
@Nehme1499: Some aspects of Ukrainian transliteration used by the other seven Latin-alphabet Wikipedias — Dutch, French, German, Italian, Norwegian, Polish and Spanish — differ from those in use on English Wikipedia (Wikipedia:Romanization of Ukrainian), while other basic transliteration aspects remain the same — Ukrainian names should not be transliterated in their Russian form (KyivNotKiev) or the avoidance of using Russian "G" in place of Ukrainian "H". —Roman Spinner (talkcontribs) 00:36, 31 January 2022 (UTC)Reply
@Roman Spinner: So, would you keep Supryaha or move to Supriaha? Nehme1499 14:01, 31 January 2022 (UTC)Reply
Ukrainian has a 'g' 'ґ' and an 'h' 'г' his name uses the latter in Ukrainian cyrillic—blindlynx 16:13, 31 January 2022 (UTC)Reply
@Nehme1499: Although both transliterations into English — Supryaha and Supriaha — appear to be acceptable, with Supriaha the technically better rendered transliteration, as pointed out by Ymblanter at 08:17, 31 January 2022 (UTC), the transliteration form apparently used by subject himself and confirmed by his listings in UEFA and Soccerway databases is Supryaha, as subsequently [12:26, 31 January 2022 (UTC)] indicated by GiantSnowman. Thus, I would keep Supryaha.Reply
As for the difference between "g" (Ukrainian "ґ") and "h" (Ukrainian "г"), the "g" sound is not part of Ukrainian speech and is only used to represent the sound of non-Ukrainian terms. —Roman Spinner (talkcontribs) 00:09, 1 February 2022 (UTC)Reply
What!? they are both decidedly part of Ukrainian speech!!!—blindlynx 03:40, 1 February 2022 (UTC)Reply
An analogous example can be presented from another Slavic language, but one that uses the Latin alphabet — Polish. Similar to the status of "Ґ" ("G") in the Ukrainian alphabet, the letters "Q", "V" and "X" are likewise not used for Polish words, but exist as placeholders in the Polish alphabet for use in specialized or foreign names / terms. —Roman Spinner (talkcontribs) 18:11, 1 February 2022 (UTC)Reply
As much as this is irrelevant to the discussion at hand, Ukrainian is my mother tongue 'Ґ' exists natively and not just in loanwords. While some of those can be said with an 'h' or a 'g' sound—like 'ґудзики'—others like 'ґуля' or 'ґанок' cannot—blindlynx 20:14, 1 February 2022 (UTC)Reply
Since this nomination rests entirely upon the difference between the form with the "g" and the form with the "h", that aspect is indeed relevant. The example from Polish was simply added to illustrate a wider view of such orthographic differences. Ukrainian, Russian and Polish are also my native tongues and, while some Russian-speaking Ukrainians and some Ukrainian-speaking Ukrainians in Lviv in the 1950s tended to add Ukrainian words while speaking Russian and Russian words while speaking Ukrainian, Ukrainian-language newspapers and books of the time did not use the "Ґ" ("G") in their texts, but only used "Г" ("H"). —Roman Spinner (talkcontribs) 22:23, 1 February 2022 (UTC)Reply
I do not speak Russian so can't comment with regards to it. The point being that both the <ɦ> and <g> sounds as well as the 'Г' and 'Ґ' letters that correspond to them exist in Ukrainian and should be transliterated accurately—'Г' to 'H' and 'Ґ' to 'G' here—blindlynx 23:11, 1 February 2022 (UTC)Reply
As exemplified by the long-running Luhansk / Lugansk dispute, transliterations of Ukrainian names and places into English, particularly those involving "g" and "h", will continue to be submitted to RM for years to come and may be inconsistently settled depending upon that week's political situation and / or WP:LOCALCONSENSUS. —Roman Spinner (talkcontribs) 01:46, 2 February 2022 (UTC)Reply
@Ymblanter: Why Supriaha and not Supryaha (per Roman Spinner's comment above about KyivNotKiev)? Nehme1499 12:56, 31 January 2022 (UTC)Reply
Wikipedia:Romanization of Ukrainian/Ukrainian National transliteration table says я in the middle of the word is romanized as ia. There is no я in Kiev/Kyiv.--Ymblanter (talk) 13:14, 31 January 2022 (UTC)Reply
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.