Talk:Vrana (military commander)

Pre 1450 Vrana in Albania

The only source which supports that Vrana arived to Albania before 1450 is 1850 source of Moore. The sources agree that Vrana was Napolitan count. In that case he could not be in Skanderbeg's service in 1442 while Skanderbeg was still sajakbey of Dibra in the Ottoman Empire. Vrana could begin with his Albania related activites after League of Lezhe collapsed somewhere in 1449-50, before the first Ottoman siege of Kruje. Based on this rationale I will boldly remove pre-1450 related text. If there are reliable contemporary sources which say something else, feel free to revert me.--Antidiskriminator (talk) 23:39, 12 October 2015 (UTC)

Widespread misquoting

The article: He is commonly known in historiography as "Count Vrana" (..) and lesser as Vran, or Vranjanin. The source, Schmaus (1971) mentions the form Vranjanin as a translation used by Andrija Kačić Miošić in his poetry in the 18th century.

The article: Vrana is not an Albanian name but Slavic The first problem here arises from the fact that Vrana has no conclusive etymology on how it came it to exist in medieval Albanian and it might be a form of Uran, which contributes to the larger problem which is that the source Hetzer (1979) never refers to Vrana but to Altisferi as a name that is not really Albanian: Vranakonti, Graf Uran Altisferi (auch kein sehr albanischer Name! and never links it to any lingustic origin.

The paper from Byzantinoslavica (1959) which is also a citation to Vrana is not an Albanian name,[26] but Slavic, although a source calls him "a Greek named Vranas" doesn't refer at all to this person, but to a Vranas or Vranaconte in Italian sources who was in the court of the Ottoman Sultan and probably contributed to some acts which were written a variant of south Slavic. If the editor who originally used it, had cited the paper properly and had full access to it - instead of relying to it because they found it on google books and decided that it confirmed their ideas, a full quote would show that this paper is not about the subject of the article: l ' usage de la langue slave, le serbe — dans la chancellerie du sultan et , à ce propos , l ' existence d ' un certain nombre d ' actes en slave (v. Babinger, ib., 33, 87, 389, 396, etc.) D'apres un temoignage (ib., 176), le sultan parlait le slave (tre lingue: turcho, greco, et schiavo) et peut-etre avait aussi du sangue slave dans les veines; cf. Babinger, ib., 35), parce que sa mere "non era musulmana, ma proveniva dall' Occidente cristiano, greca, slava o forse anche italiana... Il faut ajouter ,d ' autre part, que « un greco di nome Vranas » (ib., 65, 66) , portait en réalité un nom slave (cf . aussi ibid., 106 : Vranaconte). Il est à regretter cependant que les sources d' origine slave ne soient pas utilisées d' une façon plus détaillée par l ' auteur , par exemple pour décrire l ' impression chez les Slaves de la prise de Constantinople par les Turcs.

It's very interesting how some editors have removed the paragraph and its citations and some other editors have reverted it back but it's obvious that nobody had ever read or had access to the papers which are cited.--Maleschreiber (talk) 01:05, 2 September 2020 (UTC)