Talk:Wabash Cannonball

Lyrics

Normally it's against Wikipedia policy to post copyrighted lyrics. Does anyone know if the lyrics posted here are still in copyright? If so, they'll need to be removed. 23skidoo 15:22, 27 January 2006 (UTC)

There are many versions of lyrics to "The Wabash Cannonball" and if the original folk lyrics were written in the nineteenth century, they are almost certainly in the public domain. The lyrics in the article are from Roy Acuff's 1936 version, and they may still be under copyright- I searched the internet for information on this, but I could not find any. Public domain lyrics are posted in many song articles; check out Texas, Our Texas, The Star Spangled Banner, The Eyes of Texas, etc. If Roy Acuff's lyrics are copyrighted, I think the best solution would be to post another version of lyrics in the public domain. Andrea Parton 02:29, 10 February 2006 (UTC)

Agreed, and of course PD lyrics are fine. I guess it depends how many changes Acuff made to the original words... 23skidoo 02:43, 10 February 2006 (UTC)

yes I have the Acuff copyright, it was renewed in the 1960s. It is still under copyright at this time I believe (but what do I know). See below for the info Tillywilly17 (talk) 07:27, 15 January 2022 (UTC)

Just a comment from Gene Phillips (e_phil3@bellsouth.net) Years ago, probably on PBS, I listened to a commentary on the music of WWII. Most of the training centers for soldiers were located in the South in places like Ft. Polk, LA, Ft. Benning, GA, Ft. Bragg, NC, Ft. Jackson, SC, Ft. Hood, TX, and a number of smaller posts. This may have had something to do with the weather and cheap land. Anyway, I recall the program mentioning that the "Wabash Cannonball" performed by Roy Acuff, was played more on jukeboxes than any other recording of the WWII period and that soldiers had developed a little jitterbug dance to the song. I would welcome any comments on this, just out of curiosity. There was another song of unknown origin that I believe Acuff acquired the lyrics to: "I've got my knapsack on my back, my rifle on my shoulder, I'm going down to Shiloh, and I will be a soldier." There was some pretty stirring fiddle music with the Civil War song. No doubt that Acuff was "the king of country music." Gene

There is a belief that the Wabash Cannonball also ran from St. Paul, MN through Wabasha, MN to the south. This would be the Old Great Western Line.

NOTE: Has anyone ever heard any story of who the "Daddy Claxton" referred to in the last verse might be? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.147.83.21 (talk) 01:02, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

As to who "Daddy Claxton" was in the Acuff version of Wabash Cannonball, since Roy's middle name was Claxton it is likely that Roy's Father was named Claxton and that Roy was named after him. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.121.247.163 (talk) 12:24, 4 September 2008 (UTC)

I agree. His copyright specifies Roy's ownership of revised lyrics (see below) Tillywilly17 (talk) 07:29, 15 January 2022 (UTC)

I am baffled by the Carter Family variation on the chorus lyric, singing "rumor" instead of "rumble", but comparing versions on iTunes it is clear enough that the earlier version uses "rumor"; however the Live in Ireland version uses the more usual "rumble". I would be interested in anyone's comments about this. I was about to "correct" the lyrics as shown in the article, but it seems clear I would be the one making a mistake. Thanks. Alpine Joy (talk) 20:19, 14 August 2011 (UTC)

FYI the Carter Family and Acuff versions diverged in the 1930s, both versions are still copyrighted and are separate entities Tillywilly17 (talk) 07:32, 15 January 2022 (UTC)

Lyrics and Beliefs

[I thought I posted this before; either there was a procedural error or the section was removed. If the latter, and if it happens again, I would like to be left a note saying why. Thanks.]

On the subject of lyrics--It's not that no chances will be taken on this train, it's that no changes will be accepted to the schedule. Ordinary trains were subject to having their schedule altered by management sending a telegram to the next station where the train was scheduled to stop. Bad weather or another problem with a connecting train might cause a train's schedule to be changed. The implication of "no changes will be taken on the WC" is that this baby is too important for it to be trifled with, and it will always be on time.

As to the "belief" that the WC ran in a certain place--this was a fictional train originally, and the places it served in all versions would constitute a very difficult route for any single real train to cover in a sensible manner. The actual WC was named after the train in the song, not the other way around.  :)

Terry J. Carter (talk) 21:52, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

Patsy Montana version

Personal note and opinion only: My favorite rendition is by Patsy Montana (1908-1996). I think that it is a pre-Johnny Cash version of lyrics. Those lyrics seem to be good deal more elegant than some recollecting the haunting glamour of the train transportation era. Voice and pitch control are excellent and timing is pretty good. There is a hint of yodel in the echo of the train traveling in the distance. Patsy was a world class yodeler in some of her other music. Very early on in country music yodel was a more common feature. OTHER NOTES from her WIKIPEDIA section: She recorded her signature song "I want to be a Cowboy's Sweetheart" circa 1935, the first country song by a female vocalist to sell over a million copies. It was featured in the Gene Autry movie "Colorado Sunset" (1938) and in the movie "Lone Star" (1996) during the credits at the end. She is a member of the Country Music Hall of Fame. Spicergreen (talk) 13:00, 19 November 2009 (UTC)spicergreen

Public domain version

I found a good version in the public domain. I wish I could remember the site. I know it took me hours to find because the name was spelt wrong so it was 100's of pages deep in google.--Canoe1967 (talk) 18:02, 2 April 2012 (UTC)

Rock and roll song?

An editor is wanting to insert this passage at the end of the lede: "The song "The Wabash Cannonball" is part of the The Rock and Roll Hall of Fame's 500 Songs that Shaped Rock and Roll list. It is the oldest song on the list possibly making it the first rock and roll song written."

The first sentence is fine but not the second. The list is named "...songs that shaped rock and roll" and not "...songs that are rock and roll". The list contains some songs that are certainly not rock and roll, such as numbers by Patsy Cline and Robert Johnson. The first rock and roll song is disputed; some consider "Rocket 88" to be it, but see Origins of rock and roll#"The first rock and roll record" for a detailed discussion. "Wabash Cannonball" is nowhere mentioned in that article, and the first song mentioned as a possibility is from 1944.

There's no citation for "Wabash Cannonball" being the first rock and roll song. We want to be somewhat authoritative, and as a general rule we don't want to include material based on just an editor's opinion or observation. Herostratus (talk) 11:25, 22 January 2013 (UTC)

I was the editor that added it. In the link above there is a quote from Harry Hepcat who paraphrases a Supreme Court Justice in 1964. "The best I could do was to paraphrase Supreme Court Justice Potter Stewart who, in 1964, said of obscenity that he knew it when he saw it. Rock and Roll? I know it when I hear it." That is why I used the term 'possibly' because it is in the ear of the listener. Beetoven's Fifth was modified to a rock beat decades ago but changed so radically that the original can't be considered Rock and Roll. Wabash would not need to have any major changes if it were released as a rock song. The Jukebox Cannonball version was released by many artists and considered Rockabilly at the time. The latest major release was in 1979 by Bill Haley. I don't think I have heard that version though. I doubt we can find a 1979 review of the song easily to use an RS though. We could include the RS from Harry Hepcat and thus leave it to the view of the listener.--Canoe1967 (talk) 17:00, 22 January 2013 (UTC)

Links to later versions

• Glen Campbell 1965
• Johnny Cash
• Bruce Springsteen in 2012
• Different lyrics by The UK rock legend Lonnie Donegan.

I will keep looking for RS that state that is has been recorded as an actual rock song.--Canoe1967 (talk) 17:39, 22 January 2013 (UTC)

• Big list. Still looking for RS reviews.--Canoe1967 (talk) 18:29, 22 January 2013 (UTC)

Which Wabash?

There are many places in America called Wabash, as you can tell from the Wiki Disambig page. Could we know which one this refers to? Valetude (talk) 22:13, 30 March 2018 (UTC)

Copyright records

Here are the copyright records by A.P. Carter and Acuff. The popularity of Acuff's version caused Peer's Southern Music to file a second copyright with proof of publication in 1939, but the Jan 1933 date was good. It looks like there was some intense negotiating between Acuff and Southern Music, because Roy generated large sales 1938-39. There may have been a lawsuit, I need to research further. It reminds me of Hank Williams' 'Lovesick Blues' in 1949, when Irving Music sued to enforce their copyright, but eventually settled with Acuff-Rose, because Hank suddenly generated a huge amount of money, from what had been a dead song for 27 years. The April 12, 1940 published copyright claiming revised lyrics and arrangement by Roy Acuff possibly forced a settlement with Southern Music, to split the winnings.

None of this goes in the article yet, except for the initial filing in 1933. If anybody has the additional info, you are welcome to use the information and references below. I have more background on Calaway and Kindt, please contact me if you want to work on this - Dave

1933 https://archive.org/details/catalogofcopyrig283libr

Wabash cannonball; w and melody A. P. Carter.

© 1 c. Jan. 9, 1933; E unp. 66477;

Southern music pub. co., inc. 2542

1938 https://archive.org/details/catalogofcopyrig333libr

Wabash cannon ball; w & melody W. R. Calaway & Roy Acuff.

© 1 c. Nov. 21, 1938; E unp. 181195;

W. R. Calaway, inc., Orlando, Fla. 37244

1939 https://archive.org/details/catalogofcopyrig353libr

Wabash Cannon Ball; w & m A. P. Carter.

© Dec. 30, 1939; E pub. 82758;

Southern music pub. co., inc., New York. 6910

Wabash cannon ball; w & m William Kindt, rev. lyrics & pf.

arr. Roy Acuff. © Apr. 12, 1940; E pub. 85567;

M. M. Cole pub. co., Chicago. 22360 Tillywilly17 (talk) 06:25, 15 January 2022 (UTC)

Both AP Carter copyrights were transfered to relatives in 1954. Both Acuffs also survived as Kindt Acuff 181195. So for Acuff's hit version, that was effective Nov 21 1938, but with the Apr 12, 1940 details. I have scans of the copyright cards, I will post a link for you researchers soon. M. M. Cole pub. co and Peer retained their interests also. Tillywilly17 (talk) 07:23, 15 January 2022 (UTC)

The Wabash Cannon Ball

June 13, 1904 William Kindt, Marquette, Kansas

claimed copyright to musical arrangement only Tillywilly17 (talk) 07:40, 15 January 2022 (UTC)