Talk:Walkman/Archive 1

Archive 1

Original price

Does anyone know the original list price of the Sony Walkman? {{subst:uhnsignedIP|142.177.2.22|12:23, 19 October 2004 (UTC)}}

This page[1] says it was Y33,000 in Japan, which at the time was around $130. -- Paul Richter 12:27, 19 Oct 2004 (UTC)

In the UK, the original blue-and-silver, two headphone Walkman (Stowaway) retailed at £99. --Pete 14:32, Oct 20, 2004 (UTC)

Walkman Inventor

The real Inventor of "Walkman" is Andreas Pavel: http://www.applereport.com/apple/german-inventor-may-sue-a.html

Agreed.. an article was just posted to Slashdot noting that Pavel won his court battle against Sony, and his right to claim the title. http://www.iht.com/articles/2005/12/16/news/profile.php 72.131.44.247 17:15, 18 December 2005 (UTC)

Andreas Pavel may have invented the first portable personal stereo player but he did not invent the actual "Sony Walkman" which is the subject of this article.

His invention was never produced (except as a prototype) and was never sold commercially.

He never worked for Sony.

Sony likely had no knowledge of his device when it created the first Walkman.

He actually just owned a patent that he claims gives him rights to any and all portable stereos.

In fact, he lost the court case in Britain. He later agreed to an out of court settlement with Sony in exchange for not filing cases in other countries.

He claims his patent also includes portable MP3 players so in effect he also claims to be the inventor of the iPod.

The name "Walkman" is a registered trademark of Sony Corporation.

That`s false! Sony knew of his invention but they declined to take it, later they produced their own portable using constructional details from his invention. 62.178.137.216 (talk) —Preceding comment was added at 16:54, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

Can anyone provide a picture of an early cassette based walkman? I think that an image of an MD walkman is unsuitable.--Malcohol 12:53, 7 Dec 2004 (UTC)

I most heartily agree. I changed the picture ... HarS jan. 26, 2005

Shouldn't it be mentioned that the term "Walkman" is often used for all kinds of portable music machines, even when they aren't manufactured by Sony?

Agreed. I'll give it a first shot.

Yes, it's become a generic term despite being a trademark for one brand.

Photo

I have never posted on wikipedia but I found an image of the walkman at http://www.ieee-virtual-museum.org/media/DGiAeMFPgy2e.jpg Check it out. I don't know if it is copyrighted material but I doubt it.

Walkman revival trial in the 90s - name

In the 90s, Sony tried to revive the walkman with a line of products that had a wide variety of designs to appeal to collectors. Those devices were simple yet expensive - does anybody know how they were called? I think it had 4 letters and sounded something like "yipy". Thanks :-) Peter S. 14:10, 23 September 2005 (UTC)

Walkman Photo Suggestion

The photo of the TCM-S68V is probably not the best example. This model was not part of the Walkman line. It's not even a stereo unit. Sony's cassette Walkman model numbers begin with a "WM".

Also note the WM-3EX debuted in 1981, not 1983. And Sony did not celebrate any sort of public Walkman Anniversary until 1989. And Sony's first wireless walkman was the WM-505, sold in 1988. My source is "The Walkman Book" by World Photo Press, (c) 1999.

Hope this helps!

Original Idea

The original idea of the Walkman actually came from Ray Bradbury's seashell radios found in Fahrenheit 451. A Sony inventor read about them and later invented the Walkman.

TPS-L2

My model does not have the WalkMan logo. I purchased this in the US Army Audio/Photo Club in Germany in 1980. The headphones have orange pads (rather disintegrated at this point) and it came with a nice leatherette case. --Gadget850 ( Ed) 14:47, 29 January 2006 (UTC)

The CD Walkman® Player "D-NExxx" models

Can somebody make a more consistent coverage of the D-NE920 and D-NE20 models?

Phones

Do we really need all these models of phones listed separately? The technological differences between them are mostly negligible. --G0zer 01:35, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

Pressman

In this article, the word Pressman is employed several times. But I didn't see exactly what is it (I think it's a particular device but not sure) ? Can anybody try to explain me or create the article Pressman. Thank you 16@r 14:47, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

According to Morita's autobiography Made in Japan, the Pressman was a mono tape recorder with a built-in speaker. The walkman product differed from the pressman thus:

• Walkman was stereo - Pressman was mono
• The original Walkman could not record - The Pressman could record
• The Walkman came with headphones and had no internal speaker - The Pressman had an internal spearker
• The Walkman was really small - The Pressman was larger
• The Walkman was for the general public - The Pressman was for news reporters as well as secretaries' use

I've approximately had an idea about what it could be, but I wasn't sure. Thank you for your explanation. 16@r 22:02, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

MiniDisc Compression

Whoever wrote this..is wrong. Minidisc ALWAYS employed ATRAC compression. MDLP brought ATRAC3 to the system, an improved version of the original ATRAC compression used on Minidisc. Even in the early days the ATRAC encoders and decoders saw improvement, which casual naming lead to confusion between ATRAC revision 3 and ATRAC3, which were two totally different formats.

NetMD really only added the ability for a user to transfer tracks over USB using a painfully slow process, it's not really a major upgrade to the format, as netMD units used MDLP for the music content. Discs recorded using netMD could be played back in standard non-netMD MDLP players (but not standard ATRAC)

Walkman Pro

The section on the Walkman Pro is not quite right. The original Walkman Pro was the WM-D6. It was a few years later -- alas, I don't recall the exact year -- that Dolby C capability was added to create the WM-D6C. (I have one of both models. They still work! I will see if I can get a good photo of the D6 to place on the page.) ScottBurson 18:36, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

Free image available

This image: Image:NW-E507.JPG is available and I believe it may be useful in this (or another similarly related article). --MECU≈talk 20:56, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

Wrong! "The player supports ATRAC3, WMA, MP3 and AAC"

The NW-A1000, NW-A1200, NW-A3000 players do not support MP3. They only play ATRAC3. The other formats have to be converted to ATRAC3. The only software that can convert to ATRAC3 is Sony software that runs on Windows only. The only way to play music on these devices is to use hook them up to a windows box running the Sony software. Very very limiting. 1) you can't pass music to other people; 2) other people can't pass music to you. You're locked in. Billy no-mates. Pgr94 10:13, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

Update: from firmware version 3.00, AAC format is supported. Pgr94 23:55, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

Brand new section

I moved the paragraphs about the controversy over the origin of the Walkman concept to a brand new section. The title is not very good and I didn't do anything to the text, so it still needs some work. Tomhormby 23:10, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Significant Reorganization

I'm reorganizing the article like the iPod:

   * 1 History and design
   * 2 Criticisms
   * 3 Patent disputes
   * 4 Sales
   * 5 Industry impact
   * 6 See also
   * 7 References
   * 8 External links

Comments/concerns? Tomhormby 19:18, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

• I began the reogranization. I'll rewrite some of the sections to conform to the outline I made. It will require a criticism section to be written, which will concentrate on the seclusion of PAPs and SonicStage/ATRAC3. Otherwise, not many changes will be needed. Tomhormby 19:28, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

The Latest Walkman = advertisement?

---

Rewrite it please. Added neutrality tag. DDRRE 17:34, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

Sony Walkman B100 Series

Don't forget to add this to the article, a new DAP from Sony, the Walkman B100 Series, more info? check this webpage http://www.atraclife.com/2007/04/25/sony-to-release-b100-series-drag-and-drop-walkman/ --MarioV 18:07, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

Why isn't there any information about later B series models?-eg. B130/B140 series [User:aafuss|aafuss]] 18:07, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

Unsourced statements in Patent Controversy

I removed a paragraph from the unsourced statements section. It refers to some one having invented, and patented, the personal stereo in 1974. I have searched for the given patent number and the inventor and found only copies of this page and one article repeated on several forums. It was placed in August 2006 by an IP user who appears to have inserted various other spam-like statements in other articles.

Of course, if someone can actually find the referenced patent, by all means add it back in. Stattouk 01:30, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

If the UK patent #2064326 introduced as evidence by User:Parkerex were valid, then it would be available as a wiki cite in this manner: UK 2064326 . What that cite returns is no results. Parkerex doesn't have a source that we can use. Binksternet (talk) 21:04, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

The facts are on file with the British Government. Patent No. 1564326 COMBINED CASSETTE PLAYER AND HEAD PHONE SET issued by Comptroller-General of Patents, Designs, and Trade Marks. Patent Application filed by A.SPENCE & CO., Chartered Patent Agents, Surrey, UK. Parkerex —Preceding unsigned comment added by Parkerex (talk • contribs) 03:53, 18 June 2009 (UTC)

You're saying this patent (UK 1564326 ) is the one now? I get the same results from this new number: nothing. Binksternet (talk) 15:29, 18 June 2009 (UTC)

I'm getting the same results as Binksternet both Patent No. bring up nothing. Whispering 03:16, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

Patent Number is 1564326. This is a 70's patent. I have seen the patent. Please send someone to the U.K. Patents Office to physically verify - their online records may not date back to the 70's. Parkerex (talk) 21:35, 20 June 2009 (UTC)

I found what you have been looking for, using the number GB1564326. The patent was granted in 1980, after the Sony Walkman was already on the market. The idea was first filed by Jay Shotam who was a citizen of Singapore living in London, for a cassette player sitting on top of the head anchored on a headphones strap, with batteries at the ears. The application was filed November 1976, a "Complete Specification" was filed February 1978 and the patent granted April 1980. In 1983, the patent lapsed for non-payment. Binksternet (talk) 22:00, 20 June 2009 (UTC)

Patent drawing for GB1564326

The patent application makes certain that part of the attraction is that there would be no "unsightly and inconvenient wire to the ear", and that the shape would be "obviating the necessity for connecting wires outside the head phone." Seems like Jay Shotam already knew about the basic design of the Walkman. Even if not, Shotam's idea would never have worked with active listeners, never would have stayed on the head of people who were jogging etc. Binksternet (talk) 19:05, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

The UK patent predates all other claims. Filing a patent necessiates that the idea be in the public arena through the patent office for a designated period of time prior to receiving the patent. Sony, Hitachi, Philips and Matushita all received copies of the filing long before Sony manufactured a speakerless, non-recordable transportable solely music player for the best effect in sound reproduction while travelling on a plane, car, etc. The owner of this patent is the brother of the inventor Balram Shotam both from Baal Records in Singapore and London. Special:Contributions/86.96.226.14

I don't know patent law; we should find an editor who does. Binksternet (talk) 16:37, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

It seems, though, that Sony would have initiated development of the Walkman years before its introduction, making the Shotam invention contemporary or later, not earlier. A comparison of patents should clarify. Binksternet (talk) 16:50, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

I don't think this is worth including. People can patent virtually anything with a tiny difference - it was patented, yes, but so were spacecraft. It doesn't mean that when commercial space travel becomes a cheap and easy method of travel we should claim that the idea goes back to some bearded crackpot in the 1890s. Simply being patented is not something that gives something importance unless there is third-party coverage of the fact that it was patented before the release of the Walkman, for example. Ironholds (talk) 17:12, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

Okay, thanks. Seems like a consensus has been reached, one that doesn't satisfy Parkerex but one that retains a proper sense of WP:WEIGHT. Binksternet (talk) 18:04, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

The basic idea of the first transportable cassette music player was invented by Balram Shotam. He was instrumental in promoting BB King, Steely Dan, Three Dog Night, Marilyn McCoo, The Stylistics, Van McCoy, Freddy Fender, Joe Walsh, BT Express, The Crusaders, Creedence Clearwater Revival, Don McLean, The October Cherries and other recording artistes in the Pacific region. He had to travel extensively and created the transportable cassette player to help in his work while enroute from city to city, traveling between Europe and Asia. While traveling he was doing A&R work as well as production work by listening to tracks on the transportable player which he then decided to patent a few years later. Parkerex (talk) 17:16, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

Your investigation proves that the first ever document on a transportable music device with only headphones and no recording facility is the UK patent, and belongs to Baal Recrds (Jay Shotam and Balram Shotam who invented it). So I am adding back the text you have consistently removed. Parkerex (talk) 20:16, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

Yes, but the patent never amounted to anything. It wasn't ever mentioned by third party sources discussing the history of the Walkman, and it wasn't part of a legal battle. Shotam gets a pat on the back for the idea, but does not merit a mention here in this article. Binksternet (talk) 21:31, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

Prior art and prior patent filing in any country makes all subsequent patent filings null and void. This is a simple law. All your histrionics doesn't mean a thing. Neither did Sony and Pavel originate the idea of the transportable cassette music player. This is obvious in your own discussion of the timeline and snide remarks against the inventor doesn't cut it. We are dealing only with facts. Parkerex (talk) 18:27, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Sony Walkman.svg

Image:Sony Walkman.svg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 04:49, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

Shouldn't this be a disambiguation page?

The word 'walkman' has 2 distinct meanings:

1. Walkman: the Sony brand

2. walkman: a generic term for a personal stereo casette player

Sony no doubt aren't happy that walkman has become a generic term, but that's the fact of the matter. In terms, of common usage I think that 'walkman' as personal stereo is more common than Walkman as a branded range of various Sony products. Certainly, the term personal stereo casette player is hardly ever used by anyone over the term walkman.

Thus is makes sense for a disambiguation page to separate these two meanings. Alternatively, allude to the two meanings in the introduction and link to Personal Cassette Stereo. Compare Kleenex.

Macgruder 02:59, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

Have to agree totally on the need for a disambiguation or at least something, as it stands this is one of the worst pages I have ever seen on Wikipedia. Walkman certainly did become a generic term for these players and calling them 'personal stereos' is just ridiculous given that the term was also used for much larger stereo radio cassettes and boom boxes / ghetto blasters. Sony don't like the generic term because it breaks their old trademark and its obvious they've been allowed to keep to much control of this page, talk about neutral POV! As it is I came here looking for information on old Aiwa and JVC walkmen and even when I followed the redirect the 'personal stereo' page has been left as a naked stub. Cmon the Wikipedia page should at the very least have a general list of models and from all main manufacturers. Lucien86 (talk) 03:33, 27 October 2010 (UTC)

SONY D-50

The Sony D-50 referred to in this article under DISCMAN was released in the UK in 1984 but was not, in my understanding, officially known as the DISCMAN. The one I have is called "CD Compact Player" and has this printed on its top cover. It was powered by mains electricity using an AC adaptor to provide the operating 9-Volt DC supply. The CD player was attached to the AC adaptor along its top edge and the adaptor also had two phono sockets to provide Left and Right channel LINE-OUT audio to an external source. For portable use there was a robust battery case, the "Battery Case EBP-9LC", which either contained six disposable C-cells or a rechargable battery. A flying lead connected the AC adaptor to the battery case. Battery life was limited to a few hours only.

The next model in production, which may have been called the D-50 Mark II, was, as far as I remember, the first to bare the name "DISCMAN". This model, from memory, did in the spirit of Walkman devices, have the batteries integral to the unit.LONDONUSER (talk) 23:00, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

Original Walkmans

Why does this article have almost no discussion of the the original tape-playing walkmans? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Winston Spencer (talk • contribs) 17:29, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

Marketing self-promotion

Can someone please ban 80.88.34.52 - they're internal Sony employees marking up this article with marketing fluff.

route:        80.88.32.0/20
descr:        IP range for Sony IT Europe

Paid by Sony

There appears to be three guys in these discussions and articles on this gadget who are either being paid by Sony or Pavel to remove any type of additions that do not correspond to their views. They do these deletions diligently within SECONDS of additions and everytime. Such people become self anointed supervisors and pseudo-authorities but work for a commercial organization to twist the facts to fit their own commercial purposes and get monthly payments to do this should not be allowed in these pages. This is not wikipedia this has become sony media. It becomes obvious when you look at their deletions and slander against facts making personel derogative comments against individuals and corporations. These people have no place here because they are opening others to litigation. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.124.43.26 (talk) 18:02, 12 July 2009 (UTC)

I don't love Sony, I just don't see any reason to put a non-notable patent in the article. Doing so disregards WP:WEIGHT. If Sony never acknowledged the patent, and the patent holder never sued, if nothing came if it, it's not worthy of mention. By the way, every editor here is self-appointed. Take a look at my edit history and try to make a connection between me and Sony corporation. Good luck. Binksternet (talk) 18:58, 12 July 2009 (UTC)

Ipods

Should there be some mention on the decline of Walkman use following the introduction of Ipod that revolutionized portable music? Voice99 (talk) 19:01, 7 October 2009 (UTC)

Shotam again

I deleted once again the attempt by a single-purpose editor to rewrite this article giving credit to Shotam for the invention. The rewritten version made unsupported statements such as "The name Walkman is taken from the headline of the original patent GB1564326"... the name "Walkman" appears nowhere in the Shotam patent. As well, the patent never had any bearing on what Sony was able to do with their music player. Sony wasn't sued by Shotam, never credited Shotam... nothing happened with this patent. Binksternet (talk) 15:41, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

On the fourth line of the patent GB1564326 it clearly records "transportable music cassette". The literal transalation in Japanese is a man walking or moving with an object.

The patent is a matter of record. Why do you insist on removing references to it in the main sections. Why do you insist Sony came up with the idea from scratch. The records prove otherwise. The Japanese have never invented anything original, especially not the walking with music player.

The original walking (transportable) music player was invented by Balram Shotam. The name Walkman is coined from the first paragraph of the original patent GB1564326 - the patent heading is for a Transportable Music Player, filed in the UK in the early seventies.

Walking or moving with an object is a Japanese transliteration of the word Transportable. The usage of the term goes beyond mere portability. This was the basis of a patent filed at the British Patent Office in 1974 and a provisional patent was issued in 1976 to Balram Shotam (patent records are available at IPO, London, England)which was submitted as a transportable music cassette player, by the reputable patent solicitors Peter Barnes,of London, England.

Patent number GB1564326 was granted in 1980. The patent was first filed in 1974 by Jay Shotam of Baal Records Ltd, UK (a singer songwriter and a member of the October Cherries (http://octobercherries.com) who was a citizen of Singapore living in London. The filing was on behalf of his brother Balram Shotam of Baal Records for a cassette player sitting on top of the head anchored on headphones without facilites for recording or audio playback via attached speakers. Baal Records was involved in the production of music toegether with EMI Belgium and with WEA Records, Hong Kong, while also a distributor in the Pacific region and elsewhere for ABC Records (Steely Dan, BB King, Freddy Fener) Spectre (Dionne Warwrick, BT Express) Fantasy (Creedence Clearwater) and AVCO Records (Van McCoy, The Stylistics.

The patent application was published November 1976, a "Complete Specification" was filed February 1978 and the patent fully granted April 1980.(Birkensternet). In 1983, the patent lapsed for non-payment after Sony claimed in a letter to Baal Records Ltd that they had in fact a pre-dated patent. Copy of the Sony letter is at (http://intraclient.com). It was much later revealed and made public that Sony did not actually have any patent. This was proven by Pavel (the other claimant) in court papers(see below).

—Preceding unsigned comment added by Marshall Childs (talk • contribs) 08:16, 22 November 2009 (UTC)