Talk:Walter Butler, 11th Earl of Ormond

Wallenstein

The facts detailed about the Wallenstein murder conspiracy may not relate to the 11th Earl but to another member of the Butler family also named Walter. The Runeberg source says that the Wallenstein Walter died "in Wirtemberg shortly after the battle of Nordlingen, at which he distinguished himself, in September 1634, and was buried with great pomp at Prague.". But the 11th Earl is elsewhere recorded to have died at Carrick-on-Suir, Ireland, coincidentally in the same year. Wedgwood, C.V., in The Thirty Years War, does no more than indicate that a Colonel Butler, a commander of a regiment of dragoons, was complicit. I think that there is sufficient doubt to warrent the deletion of this claim from the lead, and perhaps from the entire page. Comments? Laurel Lodged (talk) 19:40, 8 July 2010 (UTC)

See this link also http://books.google.ie/books?id=MPZiWhhAmXAC&pg=PA301&lpg=PA301&dq=Walter+Butler+of+Roscrea&source=bl&ots=UmTQ97WdVV&sig=D8ki5KtyTkGQccNrKlqoXEpPUsU&hl=en&ei=YCg3TKueJab60wSOurHyAw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=8&ved=0CC4Q6AEwBw#v=onepage&q=Walter%20Butler%20of%20Roscrea&f=false which looks at A Military History of Ireland By Thomas Bartlett, Keith Jeffery, page 301. It explicitly states that it was a colonel Walter Butler of Roscrea (not Kilcash). Unless I get a comment the contrary, I intend to delete the articles's references to Wallenstein. Laurel Lodged (talk) 13:52, 9 July 2010 (UTC)

I've deleted this material. It seems fairly clear the Walter Butler in Germany was a completely different figure from the 11th earl, whose life story is incompatible with the mercenary Walter Butler and who would have been quite old at the time of Wallenstein's assassination. Are there any sources that indicate they are the same person? john k (talk) 15:02, 17 August 2010 (UTC)

Nothing in Ormond's entry in the Complete Peerage, by the way, suggests that he was ever in Germany, and has him dying on 24 February 1632/1633, a year before Wallenstein's assassination and 18 months or so before the Battle of Nördlingen. This has clearly been a misidentification. john k (talk) 15:50, 17 August 2010 (UTC)

Kilcash branch

Googling, one discovers that of the extremely little "Kilcash branch" turns up that doesn't originate from these very Wikipedia articles, it all apparently has to do with their being Catholic. DinDraithou (talk) 20:31, 8 July 2010 (UTC)

That may well be true. It does nothing to alter the basic facts however which are (A) the senior line (who happened in their latter days to be Protestant) died out due to lack of legitimate male heirs, (B) a junior branch inherited the earldom (who happened to be Catholic) and (C) that they too died out. What better way to describe these 3 sets of cousins other than by the word "branch" and to use the patronomn of their common ancestor? Or is there some other issue that I'm missing here? Laurel Lodged (talk) 22:45, 8 July 2010 (UTC)

Irish Roman Catholic

He was known as "Walter of the beads". He was Catholic. His King, James I, sought to deprive him of his estates because of his adherence to his religion. He was the last Catholic Earl of Ormond. His Catholicism is noteworthy, hence his inclusion in Category:Irish Roman Catholics. Through Category:Anglo-Irish Roman Catholics, if it existed, might be more accurate. Laurel Lodged (talk) 22:06, 10 December 2019 (UTC)

@Bastun: Any response ?Laurel Lodged (talk) 21:32, 12 December 2019 (UTC)