Talk:Walter von Reichenau

Anti-Semitism among German generals

The article contained the patently false claim that German generals as a whole were not active Antisemites, I deleted the nonsense. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.155.180.111 (talk • contribs)

While it is true that some of them were, it is also important to note that many of them, as a matter of fact, a large portion of them, were apolitical and disagreed with many of Hitler's policies, including actively promoting anti-Semitism and carrying out persecution. Even if some were even mildly anti-Semite, many of them were more concerned with the state of their military careers than their political ones. Эйрон Кинни (t) 11:52, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

It's not completely absurd as the German generals were often Prussian and Prussia was a place where people moved to from both different places from within Germany and Europe (thus it was less tradition-bound and attracted a fair number of Jews who saw it as a place to succeed; see "The Iron Kingdom - the Rise and Downfall of Prussia 1600 - 1947" by Christopher Clark); I've also read that it frequently happened that the daughters of wealthy Jewish merchants would marry the youngest sons of Prussian military families because the latter had squandered their wealth (and needed money to maintain their lifestyles) while the former used the marriage to gain access to Prussian political society (so that many Prussian generals have a "drop in Jewish blood in their veins". At any rate keep in mind if you want to make the argument that most German generals were actively anti-Semitic the burden of proof is on you to show it; pointing to lack of protests against Judeocide is maybe not sufficient in my opinion. Historian932 (talk) 21:38, 28 July 2020 (UTC)

Birthday

Many sources, including the German version of Wikipedia, write the birthdate for von Reichenau as October 8. What are the sources for August 16? Igoulet 16:18, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

Halder is not older than Reichenau they both born in 1884 and also Halder had no power over the army at that time.The head of general staff was Ludwig Beck so i change the statement

To follow Nazi Support section

Can I get comments about the section (below) I'd like to insert?

Participation in German Resistance activities

Most of the German General Staff came to oppose Hitler's plans for military invasions during the late 1930s and Reichenau was no exception. He met with a representative of the military plotters in the German Resistance in July, 1939 [1]

Almost immediately after the invasion of Poland, Hitler expressed his intention to launch an attack on the Low Countries and France in the late autumn or early winter. "[Reichenau] first became aware of Hitler's intentions in the West on October 10, when he and his chief of staff...arrived [at Berghof] to take over an army command from General Curt Liebmann, who, having been labeled to Hitler a 'defeatist,' was being shoved off to an obscure occupation post in Poland. In a conference that evening Reichenau learned from his predecessor that current preparations pointed to an early attack through Belgium and the Netherlands. Reichenau was 'thunderstruck' and responded vehemently that such a step would be 'veritably criminal {geradezu verbrecherisch},' and that he would use his entire influence, going up to the Fuehrer himself if necessary, to prevent such a thing."[2]

On October 30, Hitler announced his determination before the army generals to invade in the West through the Netherlands and Belgium. "Reichenau alone had the courage to take sharp issue with him and was reported in Opposition circles to have spoken out also against the bestialities in Poland." On November 1 in Berlin, Reichenau again "held forth at length" with Hitler. "Thereby he threw the Fuehrer into such a rage that, apparently still somewhat constrained in dealing with Reichenau personally, he made a whipping boy of the more supine Keitel." [3]

Apparently, Reichenau's forthrightness cost him an appointment to the supreme command of the Wehrmacht a few weeks later, but also "...led him to one of the most extraordinary one-man attempts to thwart Hitler in World War II." On November 6, Reichenau met with Carl Goerdeler, former mayor of Leipzig and civilian leader of the German Resistance, in the home of Fritz Elsas, former deputy mayor of Berlin, and told them of Hitler's plan to attack in the West. "Such an offensive, he affirmed, was absolutely crazy (völlig wahnsinnig)." He indicated to Goerdeler and Elsas that the Dutch and British ought to be warned and, further, suggested how the Dutch might shore up their defenses.[4]

Reichenau's attempt to forestall the arrival of widespread war by removing the element of surprise was set in motion by Elsas' contacts with the British. Unfortunately, several factors intervened to prevent the Western Allies from making use of the information, especially the postponement of the offensive.

1. Herald-News (North Jersey), August 28, 1958, Thurston M. Egbert, Jr, "Fantastic Tale Unfolds in Naturalization Court- Wayne Woman, Registered as Foreign Agent, Tells of Work Against Nazis" 2. The Conspiracy Against Hitler in the Twilight War, Harold C. Deutsch, University of Minnesota Press, 1968, p. 72-73. This book was first published in the same year in Germany as Verschwörung gegen den Krieg. 3. lbid, p. 73-4. 4. Loc cit.

Radixetramus (talk) 17:46, 9 July 2015 (UTC)

Note: Header of proposed addition to article was originally a second-level heading, but I changed it to a third-level heading to allow for easier discussion. CabbagePotato (talk) 01:57, 20 July 2015 (UTC)

With all due respect, you are confusing opposition to a particular policy choice, namely Hitler's plans to invade France in October-November 1939 with opposition to the Nazi regime. If anything, this is actually loyalty to Hitler as Reichenau saw himself as trying to save Hitler from himself. The offensive planned for the fall of 1939 ended up being cancelled because of winter came early in 1939, and it happened to be an extremely cold winter that year. Contrary to what almost everybody thinks, Hitler had no plan for a swift victory over France. The Wehrmacht plans called for the Wehrmacht to seize part of northern France, which would be used for air and naval attacks against Britain. As for the rest of France, the Wehrmacht generals though that the earliest the French could be defeated was in the summer of 1942 (so much for plans for a swift victory!). What is known as the Manstein plan after General Erich von Manstein, who came up with the basic idea, first appeared in January 1940 and was only adopted as the German plan in February 1940. This whole story above is dubious and questionable, but even it is true, did Reichnau betray the Manstein plan? Merely to ask that question is to answer it. The German historian Klaus-Heinze Muller once defined resistance as someone having the "will to overcome the system", which is certainly not the case here. Anyone familiar with Reichenau's actions in Ukraine in 1941-1942 will know that he was a hardcore anti-Semite responsible for the murders of hundreds of thousands of Ukrainian Jews, most notably at the Babi Yar massacre in September 1941 where much of the Jewish population of Kiev were shot down a the Babi Yar ravine. In no-way, can this ardently Nazi general whom Hitler tried very hard to appoint as commander-in-chief of the German Army in 1934, be considered an opponent of the Nazi regime. --A.S. Brown (talk) 07:16, 19 February 2023 (UTC)

Picture is calling von Reichenau a Generalmajor in 1933, while later it is said he was a Oberst during 1933 and didn't become Generalmajor until Feb. 1934. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 145.132.194.226 (talk) 22:52, 30 July 2015 (UTC)

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just added archive links to one external link on Walther von Reichenau. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add {{cbignore}} after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add {{nobots|deny=InternetArchiveBot}} to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:

• Added archive http://web.archive.org/web/20091227042100/http://www.ess.uwe.ac.uk:80/genocide/ussr2.htm to http://www.ess.uwe.ac.uk/genocide/USSR2.htm

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at {{Sourcecheck}}).

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

• If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
• If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—^{cyberbot II}_{Talk to my owner:Online} 18:39, 28 February 2016 (UTC)

Article cleanup

Please let me know if there are any concerns. K.e.coffman (talk) 08:05, 7 June 2016 (UTC)

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on Walther von Reichenau. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20091227042100/http://www.ess.uwe.ac.uk/genocide/ussr2.htm to http://www.ess.uwe.ac.uk/genocide/USSR2.htm

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

• If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
• If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 22:48, 30 November 2017 (UTC)

Name

So, is it Walther or Walter? — Preceding unsigned comment added by James Galloway (talk • contribs) 19:56, 2 April 2018 (UTC)

Indeed, the Germans insist it's Walter Wreckless (talk) 22:28, 12 May 2018 (UTC)

Assault Badge as a Field Marshal

On page 280 of the English-language version of "Soldaten: On Fighting, Killing and Dying" by So″nke Neitzel and Harald Welzer" it states that Reichenau won an assault badge while a field marshal in Russia (it does not say whether General or Infantry Assault). The footnote reads as follows: "For more detail on Reichenau, see Johannes Huerter, Hitlers Heerfuehrer: Die deutschen Oberbefehlshaber im Krieg gegen die Sowjetunion, 1941/42 (Munich: Oldenbourg Verlag, 2006). See also Brendan Simms, "Walther von Reichenau -- Der politische General," in Die Militaerelite des Dritten Reiches, Ronald Smesler and Enrico Syrings, eds. (Berlin: Ullstein, 1995), pp. 423-45. Timm Richter is also writing a dissertation on Reichenau." Historian932 (talk) 21:44, 28 July 2020 (UTC)

Walther or Walther?

All sources from the article that I've looked at, and the page in the German Wikipedia, have 'Walter', so I propose to move this article to "Walter von Reichenau". Any comments? Colonies Chris (talk) 08:40, 4 August 2020 (UTC)

Reichenau, the Pogroms, especially at Belaya Tserkov and Radom

There appears to be a direct contradiction between what is in the article about Belaya Tserkov (and other Pogroms Reichenau is linked to in the article) and Gorlitz's essay on Reichenau in Hitler's Generals. On page 217 Walter Gorlitz states :

On 20 Aug 1941 the SD Task Force IVa, allocated to the 6th Army, murdered 90 Jews at Belaya Tserkov, among them women and children. This, naturally, happened without the knowledge of the Field Marshall [Reichenau] so that, after the crime had been committed, he could do no more than summon the task force leader and curtly tell him that he did not wish such acts to be committed behind his or the Army's back. The task force leader took this reprimand coolly : the Field Marshall could not give him orders, and anyway, was only an "aristocratic reactionary".

And on p215 [at Radom in Poland] :

Reichenau was outraged, ordered a military enquiry into these crimes, and wrote to Hitler that he no longer wished to see such a unit [SS Leibstandarte Adolf Hitler - responsible for the slaughter] incorporated into his army.

How can both be true? Which should be quoted ? And if so how ? — Preceding unsigned comment added by JustinSmith (talk • contribs)

1989 source is too dated for these controversial claims. See also: Severity Order. --K.e.coffman (talk) 20:26, 13 March 2022 (UTC)

How can 1989, when talking about history, be dated ? If it can be proven these claims are false then we'll not include them, but, AFAIK Wikipedia works by including info which is often contradictory and leaving the reader to make their own mind up. What is the proof they are incorrect ? JustinSmith (talk) 16:20, 14 March 2022 (UTC)

English-language sources of that timeframe were often written under the influence of the myth of the clean Wehrmacht. Hence the the since-debunked claims that the crimes "naturally, happened without the knowledge [of the army]", the commanders "could not give [EKs] orders", etc. In the words of Christian Gerlach, writing about similar claims emanating from the former staff of Army Group Centre: "This is of course nonsense". On the Bila Tserkva massacre, please see:

The chaplains won over staff officer Lieutenant-Colonel Helmuth Groscurth to their cause. He ordered a postponement of the planned massacre of the children. In areas near the front, the Einsatzgruppen were under Army command and so when Colonel Groscurth ordered the massacre to be delayed, the local Einsatzkommando leader had no choice but to comply. Ultimately, Reichenau himself intervened and ordered the executions to go ahead. After receiving a protest letter from two of the chaplains, Reichenau wrote in response:

The conclusion of the report in question contains the following sentence: "In the case in question, measures against women and children were undertaken which in no way differ from atrocities carried out by the enemy about which the troops are continually being informed." I have to describe this assessment as incorrect, inappropriate and impertinent in the extreme. Moreover this comment was written in an open communication which passes through many hands. It would have been far better if the report had not been written at all. — Walther von Reichenau

References

--K.e.coffman (talk) 22:26, 14 March 2022 (UTC)

The importance of being Ernst

"One of his brothers was Ernst von Reichenau."

Why is Ernst (of whom we get nothing more than this) more important than some other brother?2A02:AA1:1621:E578:9D94:673D:DD05:8F29 (talk) 17:15, 3 May 2022 (UTC)