Talk:Waltz

Untitled

I changed "danced in closed position" to "doesn't break the embrace" in the international style waltz description, as there are figures in outside partner and promenade positions (which aren't closed). 69.86.197.221 (talk) 04:17, 13 October 2009 (UTC)

marshall mcluhannnnn discussed the waltz in the chapter hot and cold media in his book the medium is the message. Does it violate copyright to include some of this on wikipedia if I list a reference on the bottom? would it even be relevant to this article?

You can quote a few sentences, but you should, for the most part, put the information into your own words. --Fang Aili 21:07, 23 December 2005 (UTC)

The phenakistoscope

It cought my eye that the phenakistoscope shows the couple A) holding each other the wrong way, i.e. the man holding the lady's left hand with his right and the man holding her waist with his left while she is holding her hem with her right. This has never, to my knowledge, been the case. At least now, every type of walz (and other closed position dances, too) is/are danced the other way around, with the clasping hands being his left and her right. B)The partners are also on the wrong side of each other, as a person is always positioned slightly to the left of the other, from one's own perspective. C) The couple is doing a reverse turn (anti-clocwise), which is more uncommon than a natural turn (clockwise) -> The phenakistoscope image is reversed. You can easily see this on the text on the disc, e.g. the year 1893. I already requested the Wiki imagelab to edit the image. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Shiokumi (talk • contribs) 23:13, 11 March 2013 (UTC)

Greetings from the Graphics Lab. Your request to have the image flipped (left to right) has had its validity questioned. Please return there for a fuller explanation but, basically, the image is fine as it is because the man is holding the woman's right hand in his left hand. You stated the opposite above, but you are mistaken. nagualdesign (talk) 01:18, 12 March 2013 (UTC)

Sorry Shiokumi, I got myself all confuddled looking at different animated gifs. But rather than flipping the animation I recommend simply swapping it for the non-mirrored version. Sorry about my mistake. nagualdesign (talk) 02:11, 12 March 2013 (UTC)

Hi nagualdesign! It's ok, no offense taken! Thanks! Shiokumi 11:18, 10 September 2013 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Shiokumi (talk • contribs)

Possible Additions

The waltz was demonstrated to be as effective as a treadmill and bike exercise regiment in helping heart affliction sufferers recover. http://www.cnn.com/2006/HEALTH/conditions/11/12/heart.waltzing.ap/index.html

Dleted section

-- Dance form --

A typical waltz figure (from the man's perspective) starts lowered into the knees and travelling forward with a strong heel lead. Count 2 rises and is taken on the ball of the foot, and count 3 starts on the ball of the foot and lowers to the heel as the couple begins to lower in preparation for the next measure. A smooth rise-and-fall action is a primary characteristic of this dance.

The one who copied it here obviously does not know that there are numerous waltzes danced in a totally different way. mikka (t) 08:09, 1 March 2006 (UTC)

Error??

Can anybody substantiate this '5/4' waltz mentioned? It sounds very suspicious to me. When Tchaikovsky wrote a genuine 5/4 'waltz' in his 6th Symphony it did a lot of people's heads in. Maybe 'half and half' refers more to steps or appearance rather than an actual time signature. Therefore I am inclined to think that this information is erroneous or misleading.

Dident know what was going think know 'ore now Knightime11 (talk) 09:36, 16 December 2016 (UTC)

History

The article could really do with a history section from someone who knows more about it. As far as I remember, when the waltz first came onto the scene it was considered very risqué - almost scandalous - because it was the first time in "polite society" that two dancers spent the whole dance with their bodies so close together. Can anyone add this? I don't really know the details, or have any supporting references. -- Hux 19:00, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

"There are several references to a sliding or gliding dance,- a waltz, from the 16th century including the representations of the printer H.S. Beheim.
The French philosopher Montaigne wrote of a dance he saw in 1580 in Augsburg, where the dancers held each other so closely that their faces touched"   was added  17:51, 9 February 2009‎ Steve Pastor,   
There is no reference cited.
First the English spelling is Sebald Beham or H.S. Beham.  Second looking at the works of Beham in Alison Stewart's book  'Before Bruegel Sebald Beham and the Origins of Peasant Festival Imagery' there is no
image of any dancers in a closed position, nor even of partners holding both hands, only a few images of partners embracing.   Holbein's alphabet of peasants at a fair circa 1525 does have a couple dancing
while embracing in the letter H.   British National Museum work 1895,0122.908-921. 
http://www.britishmuseum.org/research/collection_online/collection_object_details/collection_image_gallery.aspx?partid=1&assetid=557723&objectid=1597518

Hopfer's 1535 print of peasant festival has one couple in a closed position while dancing. The woodcuts Holbein the younger designed for page borders and the copy of the facade he painted on the tanz hus in Basel are very lively but are not particularly "waltz" like.

I have found 3 conflicting translations of Montaigne's or his secretary's observations at an Augsburg wedding.
The Complete Works of Montaigne  Stanford University Press 1957.

without kissing her hand,  puts the his arm under her armpit,  embraces cheek to cheek and puts his right hand on her shoulder.

TRANSLATED AND EDITED WITH AN INTRODUCTION AND NOTES BY W. G. WATERS. 1903,

 having placed the arm under the ladies' armpits, they embrace them, and the ladies put their right hands on the gentlemen's shoulders.

translated by W. Hazlitt, 1866.

After a short rest, the gentlemen return to their partners, and kiss their hands. The ladies do not kiss the hands of the gentlemen, but, putting their hand under their partner's arm-pit,
touch checks, and then place their right hand upon the gentleman's shoulder.  They dance and converse uncovered.Mjjolley (talk) 00:57, 12 September 2013 (UTC)

Question

"Shocking many when it was first introduced" - anyone know why it was shocking? Was it just because it was new and different, or something else? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.163.131.166 (talk) 03:42, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

The Minuet was the dance of the upper class at that time; slow, ceremonious, and graceful. With the fiery waltz originating in the lower class, close body contact and display of ankles were both seen inappropriate by the upper class. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.195.220.177 (talk) 09:30, 27 January 2009 (UTC)

Another Question. I am familiar with the Rotary Waltz, though I don't see any references to it here. I am not sure if it is different from the Waltzes listed here or whether it is also known by another name. Examples can be found my searching YouTube for 'Rotary Waltz'. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.56.225.138 (talk) 02:55, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

The couples touched. The man put his hand on the woman's waist. That was the shocking thing. Even Berlioz, in the 1840's, found the dance a little risque. Gingermint (talk) 01:02, 8 March 2010 (UTC)

Name

Where does the name come from? Gingermint (talk) 01:02, 8 March 2010 (UTC)

 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.58.53.2 (talk) 15:13, 30 March 2011 (UTC) 

Question2

Why is country western waltz 99% progressive? isn't that a bit arbitrary? -80.195.15.86 (talk) 18:39, 27 July 2009 (UTC)

History Section

Shouldn't this paragraph be regular, instead of mostly bold and italicized? It seems to start at a random point and doesn't appear to be highlighting anything. Also, why is there an apostrophe in place of the word "waltz" after "that would evolve into the"? Again also, there's a typo in the eighth paragraph, where there's a seemingly useless comma in between a year and the end punctuation. 24.6.248.169 (talk) 02:40, 4 February 2017 (UTC)

Seikilos epitaph?

I am confused as to why the Seikilos epitaph is mentioned in the History section—while it is in triple time it is not a direct predecessor of the waltz nor in 3/4 time as a waltz should be. Isn't that a bit misleading as to what a waltz is? The article does have an audio link to the epitaph after all. I suggest that the misleading photos and audio files be removed from the article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:582:C100:8C5:A1EF:7C07:87CF:2B18 (talk) 18:13, 30 June 2017 (UTC)

Actually, I now see that it isn't mentioned in the history section—there's just a picture of the an amphora, the epitaph played on the lyre, and the sheet music. The media doesn't match the text. 2601:582:C100:8C5:A1EF:7C07:87CF:2B18 (talk) 18:20, 30 June 2017 (UTC)

Examples

I find the statement, "In the 19th and early 20th century, numerous different waltz forms existed, including versions performed in 3/4, 3/8 or 6/8 (sauteuse), and 5/4 time (5/4 waltz, half and half)."

I am aware of examples of most of these; however, I've not encountered any piece in 5/4 which was styled a "waltz". While I have no doubt that someone, somewhere has done this, still, it would be nice to cite an example or two of a waltz in each of these meters, for the edification of those who have only experienced waltzes in 3/4 time.

Also, I see no mention of the Ragtime waltz, which certainly preceded the jazz waltz, and was reasonably popular in its day (Examples: Pleasant Moments and Bethena (et al), by Scott Joplin; Celestine Waltzes, by Joseph Lamb; Springtime of Love, by James Scott, etc.). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.89.176.249 (talk) 19:42, 22 July 2019 (UTC)