Talk:War bride

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 7 January 2019 and 23 April 2019. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Lyncha1, Lyncha12.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 12:38, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

This is a really interesting topic (thanks to the original contributor) that is seriously under-developed. I hope my changes add some momentum. Johnno2 15:58, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

First German War Bride of WWII

My grandmother, Anne Marie Lauenstein (fomerly Anne Marie Heinke) was the very first German war bride to ever come to the United States. I can ask her lots of questions about how she came over here. She has numerous articles about her in papers from 1945 or so.

She says that she and my grandfather have recorded the entire story on tape a long time ago and she will let me borrow it to hear it.

Anyone else that can find other information about her on the Internet would be greatly appreciated.

I'll be contributing greatly to this article soon!

--Xernous (talk) 22:44, 24 December 2007 (UTC)

I have just made considerable changes to war bride. When I get time I will update it again. I am the author of Love & War, Stories of War Brides from the Great War to Vietnam.Carolf (talk) 03:42, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

Fraternizing?

The article, as of the 10th of June 2013, currently reads

The overwhelming majority of these brides (some 93%) were of British origins due to the fact that Canadian soldiers have been fraternizing with British civilians since the outbreak of the war in 1939.

Both soldiers and civilians "fraternize" with the enemy, not with allies ... and Canadian troops weren't just allies, they were an extension of the British Forces through Empire & Commonwealth.

Christian Gregory (talk) 08:37, 10 June 2013 (UTC)

External links modified

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Great Britain

The section Great Britain makes dubious claims that are not supported by the sources. The "sources" are

1. a link to a video without sound: https://www.britishpathe.com/video/australian-brides-in-england (only viewable with Flash, but there's a copy on YouTube)
2. an Amazon link to a book of interviews with women from Australia: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Swing-Sailor-stories-Victorious-Stories/dp/0733620795
3. a link to a BBC page containing a few anecdotes told by a woman from California: http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/ww2peopleswar/stories/94/a2843994.shtml
4. a messy link to a Google Books page: https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=rUs0DgAAQBAJ&pg=PA171&lpg=PA171&dq=how+many+germans+married+british+servicemen&source=bl&ots=H0sq_xCbSm&sig=D05zuxucTUhJDPeOKcL2GEpnUsM&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjn2cjF3KvZAhXMXRQKHb9rA2gQ6AEIwAEwEg#v=onepage&q=how%20many%20germans%20married%20british%20servicemen&f=false

None of these "sources" support the claims made in the section. Some of the claims are rather ludicrous, e.g. about British personnel being the "most successful" with foreign women.

Therefore I deleted the section. The IP 185.231.15.33 (probably the person behing the blocked account Jack Coppit and its sockpuppets, one of whom (Americatcp) created the section) reverted my deletion without improving the section or the sources. I'll delete the section again.

Chrisahn (talk) 20:40, 15 April 2018 (UTC)

Ludicrous claims. The sources provided adequately support the text in the article, HMS Victorious taking war brides from Australia, and the youngest being 15. You are engaging in WP:REMOVAL By deleting something you simply do not like. British personnel were indeed the "most successful" with foreign women, and that is reflected proportionately with how many served overseas and with the number of war brides. The video link clearly shows HMS Victorious arriving in Plymouth with Australian war brides, and the BBC article clearly shows American war brides experiences in England. To delete the entire section is frankly ridiculous and again is WP:REMOVAL. It is disruptive editing plain and simple. Also allegations of sock puppetry is also dangerous. I will revert the section until you can provide evidence otherwise. 185.231.15.16 (talk) 21:37, 15 April 2018 (UTC)

It looks like you don't know much about how Wikipedia works. But at least we're talking. That's good.

I removed all statements from the section that are not supported by the given sources. I looked through all the sources you cited and didn't find anything supporting the other claims. If you think that one of these sources does support a certain claim, please cite a specific page, time and/or excerpt of the sources, e.g. using Template:Cite web, or by posting the information here so we can add it to the article together.

Please read WP:ORIGINAL (quote: "cite reliable, published sources that ... directly support the material being presented") and WP:VERIFY (quote: "...any material whose verifiability has been challenged or is likely to be challenged, must include an inline citation that directly supports the material. Any material that needs a source but does not have one may be removed").

As for WP:REMOVAL, please read the disclaimer at the top of that page ("This page is an essay. ... not one of Wikipedia policies or guidelines... Some essays represent widespread norms; others only represent minority viewpoints"). If you believe that the page does represent a widespread norm, you should also read the section Unsourced information ("When information is unsourced, and it is doubtful any sources are available for the information, it can be boldly removed").

Chrisahn (talk) 23:26, 15 April 2018 (UTC)

Blatant block evasion by User:Jack Coppit using TunnelBear. Neil S. Walker (talk) 10:04, 17 April 2018 (UTC)

Wiki Education assignment: Asian American History

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 21 August 2023 and 1 December 2023. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Aan74 (article contribs).

— Assignment last updated by Brysonjun456 (talk) 05:23, 27 November 2023 (UTC)

Dubious deletion of content

A pattern of irregular activity is emerging at this article's revision history page.

• 14:39, 18 November 2023 - Sengoku-lord deletes East Asian war bride figure in a convoluted edit,[1] later reverted by Bellerophon451 for deletion of sourced content[2]

• 08:30, 25 November 2023‎ - Sengoku-lord again deletes this figure from the article, no edit summary given,[3] later reverted by an IP

• 14:36, 28 November 2023 - LeanAndYoung deletes this same figure from the article, with the dubious explanation that it says "Far East" rather than East Asia (contra WP:COMMONNAME) and their personal opinion that the estimate is unreliable (contra WP:ORIGINALRESEARCH)[4]

WP:IDONTLIKEIT says we can't be heedlessly deleting figures and realities just because we dislike them, especially if they are reliably sourced and relevant to the topic. That appears to be what is happening here. 2603:8080:1FF0:8DD0:2004:7A4:2313:5247 (talk) 00:54, 29 November 2023 (UTC)

These edits seem to be made with the intent to minimize the extent of Asian war brides. Another example of this occurred on 14:35, 28 November 2023‎, when LeanAndYoung deleted Dong (2016) (which gives a figure of 100,000 Korean war brides) without an adequate explanation.[5] 2603:8080:1FF0:8DD0:2004:7A4:2313:5247 (talk) 02:20, 29 November 2023 (UTC)

I removed the figure because you relied a magazine data for statistic but it make sense to keep the figure when you decided to change the wording. Using magazine statistic stats is not good, is like one of those magazine figures where it claims 89% of African American male population surveyed admitted having sex with white women. I prefer census for reliable figures not estimates from writers, authors, feminist where they estimate figures based on their perceptions.

Now for the Korean war bride figure some sources say 100,000 and some say 90,000 to mid 1989.

In other estimates

" Over forty thousands Korean "war brides" arrived in the United States between 1952 and 1982 (Min 1988) "

So you telling in 7 years from over 40,000 in 1982 jumped to 90,000 or 100,000 in 1989?

( The Handbook of Addiction Treatment for Women Theory and Practice 2001

https://www.google.co.uk/books/edition/The_Handbook_of_Addiction_Treatment_for/vPYNgHLGf-sC?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=Over+forty+thousands+war+brides+between+1952+and+1982+(Min+1988)+handbook+addiction+treatment++Over+forty+thousands+Korean+%22war+brides%22+arrived+in+the+United+States+between+1952+and+1982+(Min+1988)&pg=PA351&printsec=frontcover )

Miminize extend of Asian war brides? I think your trying to minimize the extend of interracial marriage between white men and Asian women figures. According to the interracial marriage census the reason for a higher number of white men and asian women is partially due to the increase of war bride

Pre-1965 Korean interracial marriages

Of the pre-1965 American Korean Americans the rate of intermarriage was 14% higher than post intermarriage post-1965. Most Korean were international students, mostly men and had to marry white women but overall more Korean women intermarried.

Korean men

First generation: Korean men 13.5% (454) out of 3,358 intermarried

First 1.5 Generation: 39% of Korean men (521) out of 1,338 intermarried

Native born: 40.6% of Korean men (2655) out of 6566 intermarried

Korean women

First generation Korean women: 55.9% (2725) out of 4,588 intermarried 1.5 Generation:

First 1.5 Generation 81.6% Korean women (1794) out of 2,199 intermarried

Native born: 46.7% Korean women (3186) out of 6823 intermarried

Post-1965 Korean interracial marriages

Korean men

First generation of the 215,098 Korean American male: 1.0% (2150) marries Non-Hispanic white women 1.3% (2796) marries out Other Asian women 0.2% (430) Other race 0.2% (430) Multi Race

1.5 Generation: Of the 34,255 Korean men 16.5%(5653) marries Non-Hispanic White Women , 7.9%(2707) marries other Asian women, 1.6%(548) marries Other Race, 0.2%(68) marries Multi-race women

Native born Korean male: Of the 16,220 that out married 29.1% (4720) married Non-Hispanic white women, 1427 (8.8%) married other Asian women, 4.8%(778) Married Other race women, 2.7% (437) married Multi-Race women

Korean women

First Generation Korean female of the 277,657 females. 48312 (17.4%) married Non-Hispanic White, Other Asian 2.5% (6941) Other Race 2.1% (5830), Multi race 2.7% (2498).

1.5 Generation of the 47,554 females, 45.5% (21637) out marry Non-Hispanic White, 8.3%(3946) Other Asian, 2.7%(1283) marry Other Racer, 2.7%(1283) Multi Race

Native born Korean female. Of the 19,775 females. (38.7%) 7652 married Non-Hispanic White, Other Asian 11% (2175) Other Race 6.8% (1344), Multi race 3.0% (593).

According to this book the higher number of white men and asian women is due to war bride

https://www.google.co.uk/books/edition/Second_Generation_Korean_Experiences_in/S10dDQAAQBAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=Many+of+them+were+forced+to+marry+white+women+because+there+were+few+Korean+women+who+had+similar+class+backgrounds.&pg=PT86&printsec=frontcover LeanAndYoung (talk) 14:51, 29 November 2023 (UTC)

For Korean women war brides, the 100,000 is not government statistic They only estimated 90,000 or 100,000 but in reality they have no recorded marriages of Korean women and U.S serviceman. These are only estimates also it was estimated 95

Probationary Americans Contemporary Immigration Policies and the Shaping of Asian American Communities By John SW Park, Edward JW Park · 2013

However records kept by the city of Seoul do not indicate whether a Korean spouse who marries a American citizen is from U.S military person.

The U.S embassy does not keep records of marriages between U.S citizens and citizens of other countries.

https://www.google.co.uk/books/edition/Beyond_the_Shadow_of_Camptown/RSoUCgAAQBAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=However+records+kept+by+the+city+of+Seoul+do+not+indicate+whether+a+Korean+spouse+who+marries+a+American+citizen+is+from+U.S+military+person.+The+U.S+embassy+does+not+keep+records+of+marriages+between+U.S+citizens+and+citizens+of+other+countries.&pg=PA239&printsec=frontcover

Number of Korean women who immigrated as wives of U.S. citizens in the 1950s (from 1950 to 1959) was 1,989 were wives of U.S citizens out of 5,529 migrants.

Those from the 1960's (from 1960 to 1969) 11,643 were wives of U.S citizens out of 27,430 #

표 3 ▶ 1970년대 미국 시민권자의 배우자로 이민 간 한국인의 수

From the 1970's (1970 to 1979) the number of Korean immigration was 242,064. Of those 29,621 Korean women came as wives of U.S male national while 1,369 Korean male came as husbands of U.S female national.

According to statistic from the U.S immigration and Naturalization. Every year in the 1970's approximately 3,000 Korean women married internationally compared to 100 Korean men who married internationaly. Of the 242,064 people, 13% of them were Korean immigrants in international marriage

미국 이민귀화국의 통계에 따르면, 1970년대에는 매년 약 3,000명의 국제결혼 여성과 약 100여 명의 국제결혼 남성이 미국으로 이주하였다고 한다(표 3 참조). LeanAndYoung (talk) 13:18, 2 December 2023 (UTC)