Talk:West Friesland (historical region)

Map

I dispute the accuracy of the map and with that the article. West Friesland is said to be a historic region, which existed during the 1100s till 1300s. How can the Anna Paulowna, Wieringermeer, Beemster or Zijpe be part of this? They are polders which were created during the 1500s till 1900s! At the time the region supposedly existed, they did not. So I suppose this map has to go, and the list of municipalities has to be more precise. C mon 18:35, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

The map shows where the region lays today, and what municipalities fall under it, maybe the say it more clearly. Also the region existed as state even in the time of United Provinces... So some of the polders already where made... Also around year 1000/1050 most of the area was land later on became water/see.. Some parts of that land are still water... Dolfy 19:59, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

I would like to see a reliable academic source on the fact that this was supposedly one of the seven provinces at the time of the republic. But anyway It is quite anachronistic to list the municipalities that are currently part of region that is so old, even when some of these municipalities became land then water etc. Maybe a historical map would be the best way to show what the region is, because the current version is riddled in contradiction. C mon 06:54, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

If you read the dutch versions (of Holland, staten van Holland en West-Friesland, Geschiedenis van West-Friesland), you can do that if you with Babel Fish if can not read Dutch, you see that State of Holland was infact the State of Holland and Westfriesland, the province was also divided in two states, Holland and Westfriesland. It was Napoleon who changed this in other departments (Amstelland en Maasland)...

ps: also see links like usgennet.org en napoleon-serie.org and many more links via google.com

About the map; Even a histrorical map is riddled in contradiction, why?; simple, the geologic area changed a whole bit between 900 and 1800 (not a centery it was the same), so unless you make tens of maps a current one is more usefull, ofcourse stated that is a current one. Dolfy 19:23, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

You wrote most of the West Friesland article, it was created so the real west-friesland article could be separated from this 'historic westfriesland. Furthermore, your academic proof is not very convincing: an article about The History of New York State (relevance?) and an article which is not written by a specialist on historical political geography, but by a specialist of military history, and a google search. Furthermore, the problem with the map and the list of municipalities, is that it is anarchronistic that municipalities that did not exist and land that did not exist is supposed to be part of West Friesland. One historic map, would be much more convincing than trying to use a contemporary map to show that land that does not exist anymore was part of west-friesland. -- C mon 19:36, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

You're now just saying I don't like what you typed so i dismiss everything.. Okay than this discussion is over.. Dolfy 19:40, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

I'm sorry my previous edit appeared as a personal attack, it was not intended that way, as on other pages, I am merely asking for sources on the existence of West Friesland as a separate state.

I don't know what to do with your conclusion "the discussion is over". It's not over, the articles accuracy is still disputed. I propose we seek some sort of dispute resolution. -- C mon 20:12, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

I still dispute the accuracy of this article, especially the list of municipalities and image, so I'm removing them, making the article no longer disputed.--C mon 22:38, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

Fine for you, not for the article, the list is for given the article a bit of body and idea off the area. Almost all the land, apart from big area of Wieringenmeer and bits of Anna Paulowna where already there when it was divide in the provides North and South-Holland. Dolfy 10:26, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

I made some ajudments on the text, hopefully gives better idea/look on why the list very useful and informational. Dolfy 10:39, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

I would like to warn not to make this conflict personal. I was born and raised in West-Friesland. On a more constructive note: on the Dutch wikipedia a historic map was submitted. I find that very interesting because one really show where the region was, instead of giving an approximation. I want to resolve this dispute. The first step in such a proces is a request for comment, asking for a third opinion, because we have entered in an interesting "welles/nietes". Do you agree to submitting to this? --C mon 10:46, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

Then why not use that one, if you think that's better? If you just sugged that, then I would just already said oke, fine. ps that map is also just a peak on a time of how the area looked, not a fixid look of the area geographicly offcourse.. Dolfy 11:12, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

Map placed, hopefully better this way.. Dolfy 11:29, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

This map is not the best map possible, because it overlaps and looks too 'experimental' for encylcopedia. The list of municipalities still remains. It does not happen in other articles and the only reason you give for it is: It gives the article body. why not add useful information about the region? The map works much better to give an impression of the area, since on this english language encyclopedia no-one knows where the regions are. -- C mon 12:14, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

The list is very usefull information, because it gives refrences to where this region lays and which areas/city/town felled or fall under it . Especially considering the fact there are more than one areas named like this. And I garranty you that not one map can and will be usefull if you don't overlap or show them all, but one like this one or the other one gives the user an good idea of the area and where it lays. But that point I already made. Both maps used are public, see also West-Frise.jpg on the dutch Wikipedia, which was used as the overlap... Dolfy 12:46, 21 July 2006 (UTC)