Talk:Westerlies

General comment

Westelies blow across the United States.

Obvious.

yup C)

Winter and Summer

At the end of the introduction, it states that "[Westerlies] are strongest in the winter and when the pressure is lower over the poles, and weakest during the summer and when pressures are higher over the poles." This is confusing, so I think that the writer should clarify who's winter: ours or theirs. Spventi (talk) 02:57, 23 April 2009 (UTC), only half in jest

Whichever hemisphere, actually. Although the passage does make it seem like both sets of westerlies are magnifying/weakening at the same time, which they aren't. Will have to think about how to reword the passage. Thegreatdr (talk) 06:49, 23 April 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, I can understand that you are trying to provide an abstract description of the principle at work, but it's too confusing as written. How about something like: Due to the tendency for high pressure areas to form over polar regions during winter, the Westerlies reach their peak during January/February in the northern hemisphere and July/August in the southern hemisphere. Would that be a factually accurate description? Spventi (talk) 00:11, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

You see, that's the problem. It's not driven by increased high pressure at the poles. If it was, there would be mid-latitude easterlies, not westerlies. It's driven by increased low pressure at the poles, which is strongest (in general) in the winter. The polar jet, due to temperature differential between the poles and equator, reaches its maximum intensity during mid-winter. When you get high pressure over the poles, you end up with weaker westerlies and more meridional flow (the jet stream becomes more buckled with strong troughs and ridges), which makes the mid-latitudes colder. Strong westerlies actually keeps the mid-latitudes relatively mild. Thegreatdr (talk) 01:41, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

Well now it says they're strong in the "western hemisphere" and weak in the "summer hemisphere", which is just baffling. If we replace "high pressure" with "low pressure", is Spventi's explanation accurate enough to work? --Naleh (talk) 03:31, 7 December 2013 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Westerlies/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

I shall be undertaking this review. Jezhotwells (talk) 15:23, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

Quick fail criteria assessment

1. The article completely lacks reliable sources – see Wikipedia:Verifiability.

   • adequately sourced

2. The topic is treated in an obviously non-neutral way – see Wikipedia:Neutral point of view.

   • NPOV

3. There are cleanup banners that are obviously still valid, including cleanup, wikify, NPOV, unreferenced or large numbers of fact, clarifyme, or similar tags.

   • no cleanup banners

4. The article is or has been the subject of ongoing or recent, unresolved edit wars.

   • no edit-warring

5. The article specifically concerns a rapidly unfolding current event with a definite endpoint.

   • not applicable

No quick fail problems, proceeding to substantive review. Jezhotwells (talk) 15:28, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

Checking against GA criteria

1. It is reasonably well written.

   a (prose):

   • The article demonstrates the depth of knowledge and reference to sources, but unfortunately the language is not sufficiently clear for the lay reader. I shall examine each section in turn, leaving the lead until last. Jezhotwells (talk) 15:41, 31 May 2009 (UTC)
   • Behaviour

   I have made some copy-edits to clarify the grammar. The 2nd sentence, When pressures are lower over the poles, the strength of the Westerlies increases, but the fourth sentence: Throughout the year, the Westerlies vary in strength with the polar cyclone. Which is right? If both then this needs to be clarified in the prose. Third sentence: the flow is more meridional which brings cold air into the mid-latitudes. I think meridional needs explanation. Dust plumes originating in the Gobi desert combine with pollutants and spread large distances downwind, or eastward, into North America due to the prevailing westerly winds in the mid-latitudes? Is this an example or the only effect? Please clarify. The Westerlies can be particularly strong, especially in the southern hemisphere, where there is less land in the middle latitudes to cause the flow pattern to amplify, which slows the winds down. What does this mean? Are the winds strong or slowed down? Jezhotwells (talk) 15:55, 31 May 2009 (UTC) Done I've made an attempt to fix these issues. Thegreatdr (talk) 21:08, 31 May 2009 (UTC) Good work, reads well now. Jezhotwells (talk) 19:55, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

   • Impact on ocean currents

   In the introduction to this section: These western ocean currents transport warm, tropical water polewards toward the polar regions.. However in the sub-section Antarctic Circumpolar Current, the article states: It keeps warm ocean waters away from Antarctica, enabling that continent to maintain its huge ice sheet.. Which is true? The ACC has been known to sailors for many years; circumstances preceding the Mutiny on the Bounty and Jack London's story "Make Westing" poignantly illustrated the difficulty it caused for mariners seeking to round Cape Horn on the clipper ship route between New York and California., is clumsily worded and needs explanation. What circumstances preceding each story? In the sub-section Kuroshio, The path of Kuroshio south of Japan is reported every day. To whom is it reported? Are the three currents mentioned here, the only ones? They don't seem to be tied into the general theme of Westerlies very well. Jezhotwells (talk) 16:14, 31 May 2009 (UTC) Done I've significantly shortened the current section and believe I've taken out the extraneous information. Thegreatdr (talk) 21:09, 31 May 2009 (UTC) OK now, good work. Jezhotwells (talk) 19:56, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

   • Extratropical cyclones

   OK, but the prose is a little dense, takes several re-reads to get the gist, due to the heavy use of meteorological terminology. Consider some slight expansion to make more readable for the lay person. Jezhotwells (talk) 16:21, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

   What would be the best method of expanding the section? Which terms, do you feel, need additional explanation? Thegreatdr (talk) 21:11, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

   I think I get it now, with exception of when the temperature distribution around the cyclone becomes fairly uniform with radius which doesn't read well. radius of what? Jezhotwells (talk) 20:07, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

   Radius from their center of low pressure. Added this phrase into the article. Thegreatdr (talk) 22:37, 2 June 2009 (UTC) OK, I replaced with with along the as I think that is clearer. Jezhotwells (talk) 22:46, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

   • Interaction with tropical cyclones

   When a tropical cyclone crosses the subtropical ridge axis, its general track around the high-pressure area is deflected significantly by winds moving towards the general low-pressure area to its north - In which direction does the cyclone cross the ridge, towards the poles, or away? Please bring the effect of the Westerlies into this, otherwise why is the section there?  Done Made changes to accomodate your reasoning, which seems valid to me. Thegreatdr (talk) 21:11, 31 May 2009 (UTC) Good stuff, that is much better. Jezhotwells (talk) 20:07, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

   • Lead

   Together with the trade winds, the westerlies enabled a round-trip trade route for sailing ships crossing the Atlantic and Pacific oceans, as the Westerlies lead to the development of strong ocean currents in both hemispheres. This was barely touched upon in the main body of the article and needs placing there and citing, perhaps in a concluding section. Jezhotwells (talk) 16:28, 31 May 2009 (UTC)  Done For now, I've removed those lines. I didn't think they needed citing since they made common sense, but if you think they are needed within the article, I will readd them and find citation. Thegreatdr (talk) 21:14, 31 May 2009 (UTC) I agree that it is common sense, but I am happy with the removal. Perhaps at a later date a section could be added about the effect of Westerlies on trade routes and navigation. Jezhotwells (talk) 20:07, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

   b (MoS):

   • Please make sure that Westerlies is either capitalized or not throughout. Also Northern and Southern Hemisphere. Check that words or phrases are not wiki-linked more than once. Jezhotwells (talk) 16:28, 31 May 2009 (UTC) Done Thegreatdr (talk) 21:25, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

2. It is factually accurate and verifiable. OK Jezhotwells (talk) 20:07, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

   a (references):

   • The article is referenced, but phrases such as When pressures are lower over the poles, the strength of the Westerlies increases, which has the effect of warming the mid-latitudes {Behaviour section}; The ACC has been known to sailors for many years; circumstances preceding the Mutiny on the Bounty and Jack London's story "Make Westing" poignantly illustrated the difficulty it caused for mariners seeking to round Cape Horn on the clipper ship route between New York and California. and It has given its name to a poem written by sailor and poet Nikos Kavvadias ("Kuro Siwo"). (Impact on ocean currents}; need references.  Done Most of the unreferenced lines which did not appear to be needed were removed, but the section concerning the strength of the Westerlies relating to winter and the pressure over the poles is referenced. If you cannot find its location, I will point it out to you. Thegreatdr (talk) 21:25, 31 May 2009 (UTC) OK, found it now Jezhotwells (talk) 20:17, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

   b (citations to reliable sources):

   • All references appear to be to reliable sources, however ref #24 {http://www.atmos.millersville.edu/~adecaria/ESCI241/esci241_lesson16_cyclones.html} is broken. Many refernces are to large documents. The specific page needs to be cited. Done Thegreatdr (talk) 23:37, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

   c (OR):

   • I find no evidence of OR Jezhotwells (talk) 16:43, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

3. It is broad in its scope.

   a (major aspects):

   • What about the jetstreams? How does the earth's rotation affect the westerlies? Jezhotwells (talk) 16:43, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

   I added a couple lines concerning the effect of earth's rotation on the Westerlies (good point). However, the jet stream would still be arranged in a west to east manner, since it is driven by the temperature difference between the poles and tropics. It does not appear, from what I've read, that the Earth's rotation influences the various branches of the jet stream. Thegreatdr (talk) 23:51, 31 May 2009 (UTC) OK Jezhotwells (talk) 20:17, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

   b (focused):

   • Perhaps too much detail on the currents and not enough on how the currents are affected by the westerlies Jezhotwells (talk) 16:43, 31 May 2009 (UTC) Done Thegreatdr (talk) 23:51, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

4. It follows the neutral point of view policy.

   Fair representation without bias:

   • follows NPOV Jezhotwells (talk) 16:43, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

5. It is stable.

   No edit wars etc.:

   • artcile is stable. Jezhotwells (talk) 16:43, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

6. It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate.

   a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales):

   • Images used are correctly tagged and licensed. Jezhotwells (talk) 16:47, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

   b (appropriate use with suitable captions):

   • Appropriately used with suitable captions Jezhotwells (talk) 16:47, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

7. Overall:

   Pass/Fail:

   • Some more work needed, so I will place on hold. Please place comments or questions below this. Jezhotwells (talk) 16:49, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

   See what you think of the changes that have been made. Let me know what more needs to be done. Thegreatdr (talk) 23:51, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

   Ok, just one minor point in the Extratropical cyclones section above. Nearly there. Jezhotwells (talk) 20:17, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

   It is dealt with. Thegreatdr (talk) 22:37, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

   OK, I am happy to pass this article to GA status, good work, congratulations. Jezhotwells (talk) 22:46, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

Southern Hemisphere

The article says: ...equatorial waters and winds to the western coasts of continents, especially in the southern hemisphere because of its vast oceanic expanse. This last sentence is not true. It would be much better making reference to the northern hemisphere, were the westerlies (and the Gulf Stream) carry much more heat to the western coasts of Europe and North America, than in the southern hemisphere toward the western coasts of South América, Africa and Australia. --Fev (talk) 06:04, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

Westerlies and oceanic currents

The article says: Due to persistent winds from west to east on the poleward sides of the subtropical ridges located in the Atlantic and Pacific oceans, ocean currents are driven in a similar manner in both hemispheres. The currents in the Northern Hemisphere are weaker than those in the Southern Hemisphere due to the differences in strength between the Westerlies of each hemisphere.

Both sentences are wrong:

• Even the fact that westerlies and oceanic currents run along a similar pattern, they have different causes, being w. winds caused by spatial differences in solar heating of continents and ocean surfaces, while ocean currents depend much more on the general effects of the Earth's movements, especially the rotation movement.
• Influence of oceanic currents on direction of winds is much more important than the influence of winds on currents.
• The currents in the Northern Hemisphere are weaker than those in the Southern Hemisphere, not due to the differences in strength between the Westerlies of each hemisphere but because of differences into the amount of land and sea in the two hemispheres. --Fev (talk) 06:35, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

Provide a book reference for this, and we'll fix it, if you didn't wish to. Thegreatdr (talk) 15:06, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

Capitalization of title

Should this subject of this article be spelled "Westerlies" and "Prevailing Westerlies"? It seems to me that neither word is a proper noun, and climatology terms do not have any sort of special capitalization tradition. For example, the articles on the polar easterlies and the trade winds, the counterparts of the westerlies elsewhere on Earth, do not capitalize the wind names. Transphasic (talk) 03:37, 7 January 2014 (UTC)

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