Talk:Westray to Papa Westray flight

Infobox

Nice article. Yet I'm not sure that using the airline infobox is appropriate here. It's somewhat awkward as it focuses on the airline rather than the route (by including the airline's website, etc.). There's no requirement that articles have infoboxes and as such I suggest that the infobox be omitted and the image therein retained elsewhere in the article. Regards, Orange Suede Sofa (talk) 03:14, 22 January 2016 (UTC)

The more I look at it, the more I agree. It doesn't add much, other than a nice bold place to proclaim it's the world's shortest scheduled flight. I'm sure there's a better way for that. I'll nix the box. Dcs002 (talk) 03:50, 22 January 2016 (UTC)

Public Service Obligation

Should we mention that it is a PSO route, that is paid for by the local government, in that case it is not strictly a Loganair route as anybody can have the contract. MilborneOne (talk) 13:20, 24 January 2016 (UTC)

I agree. change the focus from Loganair, to the route, mention of the PSO sponsorship and state that the route is currently (2016) operated by Loganair.--Petebutt (talk) 16:00, 24 January 2016 (UTC)

I had added a statement that Loganair must periodically rebid for the route. I don't know exactly what a PSO route entails, other than what you have said here, that it receives public sponsorship. The Daily Mail article says the route was up for bidding (by the Orkney Council I think?) and won by Loganair. I welcome any changes you suggest to that effect, but if I am to make any changes, I will need a source or two so I can understand the concept. I'm American, and in the US, I think all regional airlines have been subsidized since deregulation in 1978. I am willing to rewrite and re-title the section without Loganair being the focus (unless either of you would prefer?), and if anyone has a better page name, I'm all for it. I have asked for suggestions on the WikiProject Airlines page, and I haven't been able to come up with anything that isn't long and ungainly. The title needs to say it's a flight, and it really should indicate that the flight goes between the islands, not just one-way. I don't think hyphens are allowed in titles, but Westray - Papa Westray air route or ...flights would be succinct. Dcs002 (talk) 20:33, 24 January 2016 (UTC)

I just found this, a press release from the Orkney Islands Council. I will see what I can do about rewriting the Loganair section. Dcs002 (talk) 20:44, 24 January 2016 (UTC)

MilborneOne and Petebutt, I have rewritten the former Loganair section and called it Background. I would really appreciate your suggestions for a better name for this article. I am really baffled by it. I used Loganair in the name because two other flight articles (in Category:Commercial flights) used the airline and flight number, and the other two in the category had common names ("The Double Sunrise" and the "Linea dell'Impero"). This tiny flight badly needs a common name, but there doesn't seem to be one (other than "World's Shortest Flight"), so I'm stumped.

As an aside, I understand that Loganair lacks permanence with this route, but they have been the only company to operate the route, and they have done so for 49 consecutive years. This doesn't change things, but it might lessen the urgency to find a fix. I think in the minds of the people who fly the route, it's a Loganair route. I got that impression from the Council's press release anyway. Dcs002 (talk) 21:26, 24 January 2016 (UTC)

Page name

A new title could be Westray to Papa Westray, simple, to the point and most of the alternatives can, or already have, re-directs.--Petebutt (talk) 15:58, 25 January 2016 (UTC)

I like the simplicity, but that could also refer to the ferry service, or any other modes, and it still implies only one direction. I think the title needs to say it's a flight or air route. I'm not trying to be stubborn or own the article. I don't like the current title either. I just don't think "Westray to Papa Westray" is descriptive enough. I have not mentioned "World's shortest scheduled flight" because I assume "World's X-est" is not an ok article name in general. Articles don't seem to be named that way.

"Westray to Papa Westray flight" is IMO the best candidate name, but it still implies one-way service. If we can't think of anything better, maybe we should go with that, or some variation of it.

BTW, if I am reading my crystal ball right, Loganair might stand a good chance of losing the contract this next time around. The council chair is also the chair of a community transportation partnership (HiTrans) that has a history of working with another airline, and the council solicited public opinions on the matter online. Dcs002 (talk) 21:13, 25 January 2016 (UTC)

I agree about stating that it is a flight, but I wouldn't worry about the one-way implication. In virtually all human discussion about flight superlatives, just one city pair is used without any confusion. We all say "Sydney to Dallas is the longest flight", or "Dallas to Sydney", but not usually "Dallas to Sydney and back to Dallas" or "Dallas-Sydney-Dallas" or "Sydney-Dallas-Sydney" or whatever. Therefore, my preference is for "Westray to Papa Westray flight". Orange Suede Sofa (talk) 22:42, 25 January 2016 (UTC)

Ok Orange Suede Sofa and MilborneOne, unless there is any objection, I will move the article to Westray to Papa Westray flight soon. Orange Suede Sofa, I think that if only one direction is given in the name, it should be W to PW because Papa Westray is the end of the line, I believe, and it is the destination with all the neolithic ruins that most passengers want to see, so maybe they would be more likely to talk about going to Papa Westray rather than the reverse. Dcs002 (talk) 16:58, 26 January 2016 (UTC)

I am OK with the name change. MilborneOne (talk) 18:44, 27 January 2016 (UTC)

Ok, thanks MilborneOne. I'll just ping Petebutt and Orange Suede Sofa, who have also commented on the naming issue, and if they're ok with it, or if they don't respond, I'll make the move. Dcs002 (talk) 19:48, 27 January 2016 (UTC)

I'm OK with it. Thanks! Orange Suede Sofa (talk) 19:56, 27 January 2016 (UTC)

Fine by me.--Petebutt (talk) 01:33, 28 January 2016 (UTC)

Done. Thanks for the help everyone! Dcs002 (talk) 18:37, 28 January 2016 (UTC)

I know I'm coming late to this discussion, but how about "Flight between Westray and Papa Westray"? Tim (Xevious) (talk) 11:37, 1 November 2016 (UTC)

The article name needs to be informative & brief, and it should be as similar as possible to similar articles. There are few similar articles, but I think the current title fits the bill nicely. (As you see there was some effort working it out.) I think what persuaded me in the end is that Papa Westray was the end of the line. Papa Westray is the destination where people go to see the archaeological sites. Yes, some passengers live on Papa Westray and fly to other destinations, but I got the impression from the sources that the academic traffic going to Papa Westray to study the sites was paramount. (If I go to Papa Westray to study the sites, I don't say "I'm going to Papa Westray and back to study the sites." Nor do I go to Orlando and back for vacation. I go to Orlando.) That's my take anyway. Dcs002 (talk) 03:55, 15 December 2016 (UTC)

Map?

I think the page would benefit from a map showing the route. Can anyone oblige? Tim (Xevious) (talk) 11:38, 1 November 2016 (UTC)

Ooh, that's a great idea! As I recall, WP has a graphics section that helps create stuff like that. I have had very little time to do anything on WP this year (personal stuff), so I haven't been following things. When I get time I'll see about the WP graphics people helping us out here, or maybe use open source mapping. The article is pretty graphics-heavy as it is, given the amount of text. We might need to lose an image in order to add a map. We'll see. Dcs002 (talk) 21:52, 12 December 2016 (UTC)

Tim (Xevious), I just made a request to Wikipedia:Graphics Lab/Map workshop for their help in making a map. This request seems pretty simple compared to the rest of the work they are doing. I will keep an eye on that request and add the map to the article once it's done. Thanks for the suggestion :) Dcs002 (talk) 03:40, 15 December 2016 (UTC)

Tim (Xevious), the Wikipedia:Graphics Lab/Map workshop has a backlog. I made something up myself by altering an existing map of Orkney from the Wikimedia Commons. I don't know if it looks amateurish, but I think it will do until the more skilled volunteers at the Graphics Lab work their magic. Dcs002 (talk) 02:38, 21 December 2016 (UTC)

Thanks Dcs002! I'm afraid my skills with a digital paintbrush aren't even up to that! This looks really good! Tim (Xevious) (talk) 14:56, 23 December 2016 (UTC)

"Shortest flight" listed at Redirects for discussion

An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect Shortest flight. Please participate in the redirect discussion if you wish to do so. Steel1943 (talk) 22:04, 20 September 2019 (UTC)