Talk:Whangārei

Picture

Does any one have a pic of the Sales when you enter Whangarei? that would make a good pic on the article --219.88.47.203 22:57, 6 May 2006 (UTC)

Well I don't have one of the Sales coming in or anything like that, just in case you could need some others, I put some in the commons category [1]--Kiwi-sonja 20:12, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

layout

Does anyone know how to place text to the left of the map box? GrahamBould 06:22, 28 May 2006 (UTC)

Are you asking how to have text in the infobox but to the left of the map? You would have to replace the line

| colspan="3" align="center"| [[image:Whangarei.png|none|320px]]

with two lines such as

| Test text

| colspan="2" align="center"| [[image:Whangarei.png|none|320px]]

Note that I've changed colspan to be "2". Please don't do this on this article, as the infobox is a standard structure.-gadfium 06:34, 28 May 2006 (UTC)

Pronunciation

An anon has changed the lead sentence, which included "(the initial consonant is often pronounced F as in fong-a-ray)", by removing the word "often". I know people who pronounce it with a "wh" sound, and I know people who pronounce it with an "f" sound. The TV3 weather, last time I checked, used the "f" sound. Is there a preferred pronounciation, and should we continue to note that both pronunciations are used?-gadfium 22:57, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

I lived in Whangarei for 4 years (1958-62). Everybody pronounced it with a W then, except my English teacher Eric Blow, who also was an announcer on the local radio station 1XN. He used the correct Maori 'Fongarei' & we all had a a bit of a laugh at that. But it seems to have caught on. Definitely older people use W, but with the resurgance of Maori culture F will take over. I vote for mentioning both. Actually the correct pronunciation is somewhere between F & W, too suble for most people :-)) GrahamBould 07:01, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

It should be more like 'fah - ngah - rey'. Actually the correct Māori is not 'fongarei'... the fong pronunciation derives from a peculiarity of English pronunciation where 'a' is said as 'o' after wh or w, a process shown by the pronunciations of wall, what, water, wander, walk, etc. Seems like English speakers tend to carry this over into their pronunciation when they use the 'f', as if they are subconciously going thru a stepped process - 1), whang... = wong, 2), change wh into f = fong...

Kahuroa 18:31, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

I grew up in Whangarei (1980-1998) and we (family, friends etc) always called it 'wong-ga-ray' with a hard 'g' sound. As far as I know this is the local pakeha pronunciation of the name, not just amongst the older generations - I am 27 years old - though I have heard 4 different pronunciations on the radio. Fa-nga-ray, fahng-ga-ray, wong-a-ray and wong-ga-ray. I would have edited the page but I can't figurre out the IPA symbols. Hope this is helpful. Ithiliennz (talk) 06:01, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

When I visited NZ (from the US) in 1990, I was told all place names that started with "WH" were pronounced like an "F." I was there for two months, in Auckland and around the Coromandel peninsula, and never heard any Kiwis use a "W" sound for any names that started with "WH." They were all pretty adamant about making sure we used the "F" sound for the "WH" in any place names like this. I suggest having both phonetic pronunciations listed in this wiki. nycdi (talk) 04:54, 30 November 2010 (UTC)

I have visited Northland in 2011 and the older Europeans still pronounce it as "Wongarei/Wangarei". This is quite illogical because no one ever pronounces "Whakapapa" as "Wakapapa". I think the standard pronounication at TVNZ for Whangarei is "fahng-ga-ray" even though the actual Maori pronounciation as mentioned by User:Kahuroa is supposed to be "Wha-Nga-Rei". --Dunedinite (talk) 10:48, 8 April 2012 (UTC)

I agree. Unless you grew up there, not pronouncing it the Maori way just seems illogical. The "Wong-Ah" pronunciation seems to be part of the culture of some of the old pakeha up there, but nobody else. CoronaryKea (talk) 11:08, 1 June 2015 (UTC)

I live here, didn't grow up here but like most pakeha I still pronounce it fa-nga-rey. I haven't heard anyone apart from the odd person visiting from out of town call it anything else. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.61.51.176 (talk) 18:21, 12 January 2017 (UTC)

There is only one correct pronunciation of Whangarei. It is the Māori pronuncation. Ajf773 (talk) 03:35, 10 December 2017 (UTC)

In Māori syllables cannot end in a consonant. Consequently Whangārei should be pronounced Wha-ngā-rei. In English the consonant 'ng' only occurs at the end of a syllable and native English speakers have problems pronoucing 'ngā'. Often Whangārei is mispronounced Whang-ā-rei (or even Whang-gā-rei). A recent edit has transliterated the IPA fɒŋəˈreɪ as FONG-ə-RAY. This is wrong; it should be FO-NGAR-RAY. It has also transliterated the alternative wɒŋəˈreɪ as WONG-ə-RAY. This is correct since people who pronounce 'Wh' as 'W' generally put 'ng' on the end of the first syllable.

Another problem is the correct pronunciation of the initial 'Wh' is 'ɸ' rather than 'f'. ('f' is said with the upper teeth touching the lower lip. To say 'ɸ' your teeth don't touch your lips.) I shall post an edit. OrewaTel (talk) 23:56, 30 August 2020 (UTC)

Due to English influence there are only a few Māori elders left who pronounce 'Wh' as 'ɸ' rather than 'f', at least this is what Māori phonology is saying, so I would rather stick with 'f' to reflect modern Māori phonology. --Hanzlan (talk) 14:12, 23 March 2021 (UTC)

Potential edit war

Recently an editor removed the incorrect English pronunciation 'Wongeray' from the lede. He left both the standard English 'Fongeray' and the Māori 'Fongaray'. His argument was that noöne said 'Wongeray' any more. Another Editor has reverted it saying that 'Wongeray' is common. Neither is actually correct. 'Wongeray' is still used but it is very rare. For sure foreigners always get it wrong. Germans tend to say 'Vongerye" and French 'Wongaré' but New Zealanders normally get it about right. In fact the only Kiwis who say ;Wongaray' are a few long term residents or some people who lived here 20 years ago. I would be quite happy to revert the latest edit but I don't want to start an edit war. Certainly having the incorrect rare pronunciation as the first option must be wrong. The big problem is to find references. You might find historic documents advocating 'Wongeray' but you would struggle to find anything written this century. It is this lack of documentation that makes wary about editing. I suggest that we amend the lede to give the Māori and correct English pronunciations first then simply mention the incorrect pronunciation as a rare anomaly. Unless folks tell me I'm wrong then I will make this edit next week. OrewaTel (talk) 05:01, 6 November 2020 (UTC)

Despite my last post here, the last edit in the article has been reverted and so an edit war has started. OrewaTel (talk) 05:18, 6 November 2020 (UTC)

Just revert it (if it happens again) and invite those who disagree to this discussion. If they don't have an argument, their change won't stick. If it keeps happening, those editors may face a block for disruptive editing or the article gets semi-protected. There are always ways to deal with disruptive editing. Schwede66 06:27, 7 November 2020 (UTC)

I'm not going to revert the edit at once. That would simply inflame the situation. There is no hurry in this case. Instead I'll go to the reference section of Whangarei Central Library. Then next week I'll post what I believe to be true. If anyone doesn't like it then they can explain themselves here. OrewaTel (talk) 07:41, 7 November 2020 (UTC)

Images

Can some one upload some 'sunnier' images to at least indicate that whangarei is a warm, and somewhat less bleak place then the current images suggest.

Boys' and Girls' High Schools (Foundation)

Does anyone have information on when Boys' and Girls' High Schools separated from "Whangarei High School"? It is specious to claim that they were both founded in 1881, when they were one school of a different name then. 118.92.43.141 (talk) 09:11, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

When did Whangarei become a city?

Until today, the article said it became a city in 1965 (second to last paragraph of the history section) and the reference to Bateman New Zealand encyclopedia confirms this. An anon changed it to 1964. I double-checked against the 1966 Encyclopaedia of New Zealand, and that says 1964.[2] and [3]. I also looked at Te Ara, which says 1965.[4]. So does the Whangarei District Council.[5] It's not a suitable source for Wikipedia, but I found this beer bottle from 1964!

Can anyone shed some light on this discrepancy? Was the city celebrated in November 1964, but somehow this didn't become official until the following year?-gadfium 20:32, 16 September 2012 (UTC)

Becoming a "City" legally required an Act or Regulation passed or approved by Parliament. Probably indicated in an amendment to the Municipal Corporations Act (repealed by the Local Government Act 1974) and probably celebrated in some newspaper - try "Papers Past". In the 1960s a population of 20,000 was required before a borough council could seek city status. Nowadays, of course, the urban area can be loosely called a city, as in the article and throughout the district council's website, but it does not have legal City status - not that there's any practical difference between a District and a City since 1989. Robin Patterson (talk) 03:21, 4 September 2021 (UTC) (former Assistant Town Planner, Porirua City Council)

Hundertwasser section....why is this here?

Directed to this talk page because another user has made the suggestion that it be moved off this page and get its own page. I agree. It is a long, rambling section on something that doesn't exist, and makes this page seem quite strange to a casual visitor who just wants to know what is in Whangarei.CoronaryKea (talk) 11:10, 1 June 2015 (UTC)

Agreed so I have been bold and moved it. Moriori (talk) 21:42, 1 June 2015 (UTC)

Awesome! CoronaryKea (talk) 10:40, 14 August 2015 (UTC)

Parahaki or Parihaka?

The local high point was known a Parahaki until 2005 when the naming committee decided that its name was Parihaka. The decision was interesting because it was stated that all evidence said the name was Parahaki but, "we must respect oral tradition." The committee then made three statements:

1. This is a spelling correction rather than a name change. (That is the name always was Parihaka.)
2. Out of respect for the fallen the War Memorial should retain the name Parahaki.
3. The district and the street names should retain the name Parahaki.

The current article incorrectly refers to the suburb Parihaka. The suburb is Parahaki.

If a future edit mentions the War Memorial on top of Parihaka, it should be called by its actual name, The Parahaki Memorial. OrewaTel (talk) 10:05, 25 August 2020 (UTC)

Thanks for that. Would be good to have articles for the suburb and the hill, and those would be the right spots for documenting the above in 'etymology' sections. I've created a Wikidata entry for the hill and note that the official name is recorded as "Mount Parihaka". It further says that the spelling that got replaced was "Mount Parihaki". The Geographic Board doesn't recognise the suburb, which is quite a common issue (I've come across suburb omissions before). Schwede66 19:18, 25 August 2020 (UTC)

Thanks from me too. I've always found that a bit confusing. I recently wrote several articles on Whangārei suburbs, but I based it on the statistical area units, and Parahaki is in the same unit as Riverside, Whangārei. No reason why someone couldn't write an article on the suburb. I'd also like to see an article on Mount Parihaka.-gadfium 21:34, 25 August 2020 (UTC)

The problem is there are real suburbs: Kamo (a town in its own right), Maunu, Raumanga, Regent etc. Then there are arbitrary areas such as Avenues (where I live). Parahaki is just a couple of streets to the South of Mount Parahaki (as it was then known) and I cannot think of anything noteworthy to say about it. OrewaTel (talk) 11:12, 26 August 2020 (UTC)