Talk:What Is... Cliff Clavin?

Location of the episode

Wasn't Jeopardy! actually taping in Boston, thereby creating the device where Cliff gets to compete and afterwards having Trebek visit Cheers to console Cliff? It's been quite a while since I've seen this episode, but I don't think they flew out to Los Angeles. (Norm was at the taping, IIRC.) Spicy 20:43, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

Right you are. Mixed this up with the ep where they watch Johnny Carson. Staxringold 20:56, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

Name

shouldn't this page be titled "What is... Cliff Clavin?" ? the (cheers) suffix seems unnecessary, because there's no other page with the name. The Kids Aren't Alright 20:37, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

I would tend to agree, but given the recent decision to move The West Wing presidential election, 2006 despite there being no actual presidential election then... *shrug*. I put it there to be safe, but I have no serious opinion either way. Staxringold 23:47, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

I Lost on Jeopardy ref

I contend the ref is correct, as it's the exact title of the song. Please leave it.

It's not vandalism, as both "Weird Al" and Cliff Clavin lost on Jeopardy. This is turning into a revert war, and since you've reverted three times today, please stop. Alan 02:02, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

Some odd edits you've made Why have you continued to edit What is...Cliff Clavin? (Cheers), changing a quote that includes the phrase "I lost on Jeopardy" to link to the song, and you say you are fixing a ref. Wikilinks do not reference anything, and the quote has nothing to do with the song. What's up? Staxringold talkcontribs 01:42, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

Please do not add nonsense to Wikipedia. It is considered vandalism. If you would like to experiment, use the sandbox. Thank you. References are external websites/books/articles/etc that prove a certain fact is true (Joe Shmoe was born MONTH DAY, YEAR with a reference to an article asserting that birthday). What you are doing is linking a phrase to a song with the same name. That is excess linking, and vandalism now that you have been told what it is. Please cease and desist. Staxringold talkcontribs 01:53, 7 June 2006 (UTC) Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Akcarver"

Comments cross-posted from Staxringold's and my talk pagesAlan 02:07, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

Temporarily blocking user for 3RR violations and continued vandalism despite warning. Please read Wikipedia:Citing sources for what a reference actually is. Staxringold _talk^contribs 02:10, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

For what it's worth, I don't see the point of the ref either. This article isn't related to the Weird Al song. Perhaps the weird Al song can refer to here, but that's not relevant to this article. -Phoenixrod 02:29, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

Summarily deleted?

This article was summarily deleted by TTN at 23:42, 4 October 2007, with no explanation given and no VFD discussion that I can find.

Someone attempted to restore it the next day and TTN removed it once again, this time writing: "Supply real world information before trying to bring it back."

This page does not qualify for speedy deletion under Wikipedia's deletion guidelines as far as I can tell. To wit: "There is no consensus to speedily delete articles of types not specifically listed in A7 under that criterion." (A7: "An article about a real person, group of people, band, club, company, or web content that does not state why its subject is important or significant. This is distinct from questions of notability, verifiability and reliability of sources. If controversial, list the article at Articles for deletion instead.")

Needs to be discussed before deletion.

76.197.203.77 14:45, 8 October 2007 (UTC)

Sources

1. The psychobiology of Cliff Clavin
2. This is Jeopardy!
3. Television "Cheers": A Comprehensive Guide
4. ...some of the best episodes...
5. Jump the Shark

Ten Pound Hammer, his otters and a clue-bat • ^{(Otters want attention)} 20:32, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

The A.V. Club is scheduled to write about Cheers two episodes at a time, beginning November 10. If you're not familiar with The A.V. Club, they feature some of the best and most thoughtful commentary on pop culture, with production information and historical context, as well as reviews. So that should be helpful in expanding this and writing more about individual episodes. postdlf (talk) 15:24, 28 October 2011 (UTC)

Removed entry #1

This is removed from the article because entry below violates WP:no original research and has no reliable sources to verify and is not reliable enough to verify notability of this episode:

The episode has become notable for its focus on know-it-all character Cliff Clavin's appearance on the American game show Jeopardy! The episode's name is a reference to the Jeopardy! rule that all contestants' responses must be phrased in the form of a question. This episode is different from the normal episodes, in that a bulk of the plot takes place outside the bar.

--George Ho (talk) 16:21, 4 May 2012 (UTC)

Removed entry #2

This is removed from article for possibly violation "no original research rule":

Over a decade later, on the Jeopardy! episode airing June 6, 2000, contestant Gene Newmier didn't know the correct response to the following Daily Double: Hedda Tesman, Helen Alving, Knut Brovik. Newmier's response was "Who are three people who have never been in my kitchen?" On that occasion, the category was "Who Created 'Em?", making Newmier's response more explicitly incorrect than was Cliff's. (The correct response was "Who is Henrik Ibsen?", as the three names are those of characters from plays penned by the Norwegian dramatist.)

I have checked the references; I found no mention of Cheers or Cliff Clavin in one source. --George Ho (talk) 00:10, 5 May 2012 (UTC)

I can verify that Dr. Newmier said this; he's my physician and a close personal friend, and I asked him about it during an office visit several years back. He has a family medical practice in Cambridge, MD, and was at one point chief of staff at the local hospital, Dorchester General -- if anyone here's OCD enough to call and ask. -- David A Insley — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.111.143.234 (talk) 00:58, 12 August 2012 (UTC)

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: withdrawn as promised. Simple question and Jeopardy question; not exactly the best reason, but decent enough. In Jeopardy, ellipsis is occasionally used vocally, not literally. George Ho (talk) 01:40, 20 June 2012 (UTC)

---

What Is... Cliff Clavin? → What Is Cliff Clavin? – I don't think "..." is needed, even if it is exactly an official title of this episode, as conciseness overcomes officiality. Even "..." should belong to books and films, not TV episodes, unless I'm wrong. --George Ho (talk) 02:23, 19 June 2012 (UTC)

• Oppose on the premise that we should only exempt book, film, and album titles (like Married... with Children, ...Baby One More Time, and many of those listed on All pages with titles beginning with ...), and not TV episodes. They are all official titles, where previous consensus on all of them has determined that either officiality or common name overrules conciseness vis-à-vis omitting the ellipses or other punctuation marks. I need a more convincing argument as to why the titles of TV episodes should be treated differently. Zzyzx11 (talk) 04:02, 19 June 2012 (UTC)
  • For further argument, typing "..." as a title for an episode is not convenient for an average typist. Official and non-official sources may vary, and episode titles may not be memorable as Friends' "The One <whatever>", even if not that memorable. From TVGuide.com, Amazon.com, Malaysian newspaper, American newspaper, Hallmark Channel. If sources are not that reliable, why is typing "..." necessary besides officiality? How many people comfortably type "..." for such episodes? --George Ho (talk) 04:20, 19 June 2012 (UTC)
  • Also, see Talk:Never Been Kissed#Requested move — Preceding unsigned comment added by George Ho (talk • contribs) 04:22, 19 June 2012‎ (UTC)
• Oppose. Since the accurate title of the episode contains the ellipsis, even if we created What Is Cliff Clavin?, we would need to keep the current title as a redirect. In my opinion, this requested move doesn't make much sense. Best regards, Cindy(talk to me) 14:46, 19 June 2012 (UTC)
• Oppose; conciseness does not trump accuracy. And here I do not mean to imply that we should use the ellipsis because it's official, but rather because omitting it changes the meaning of the title -- subtly, but it does so. Powers ^T 19:36, 19 June 2012 (UTC)
  • What are meanings with an ellipsis and without one for this episode title? --George Ho (talk) 19:42, 19 June 2012 (UTC)
    • "What Is Cliff Clavin?" sounds like a simple question. "What Is... Cliff Clavin?" sounds like a Jeopardy "question" (i.e., answer). Powers ^T 01:26, 20 June 2012 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:What Is... Cliff Clavin?/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Rp0211 (talk · contribs) 23:27, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)

1. It is reasonably well written.

   a (prose):
   b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists):

2. It is factually accurate and verifiable.

   a (references):
   b (citations to reliable sources):
   c (OR):

3. It is broad in its coverage.

   a (major aspects):
   b (focused):

4. It follows the neutral point of view policy.

   Fair representation without bias:

5. It is stable.

   No edit wars, etc.:

6. It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate.

   a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales):
   b (appropriate use with suitable captions):

7. Overall:

   Pass/Fail:

Infobox

• No issues

Lead

• No issues

Preface

• An explanation of Jeopardy! is not necessary as separate article explains how it is played
• Only include information that relates to this episode
  • Must people be forced to go to Jeopardy! article? The preface serves as a purpose for readers who do not have to read more about Jeopardy! --George Ho (talk) 00:42, 26 June 2012 (UTC)

Plot

• No issues

Reception

• Combine all information in one paragraph, as it all relates to each other
  •  Done. --George Ho (talk) 00:50, 26 June 2012 (UTC)

Impact

• No issues

Notes

• References 1, 2 → Cite source in a "Bibliography section"
  •  Done --George Ho (talk) 00:50, 26 June 2012 (UTC)
• Reference 5 → Publisher of "Chicago Tribune" needed.
  • It becomes #4 after replacing #3 with #2. Why needing Publisher? I tried finding one, but found author and no publisher. --George Ho (talk) 00:50, 26 June 2012 (UTC)
• Reference 10 → "Google Books" should not be italicized
  • FN 10 becomes FN 9. I don't know why "Google" must not be italicized, but it is not formatted any way. --George Ho (talk) 00:50, 26 June 2012 (UTC)
• Reference 12 → Publisher is needed
  • FN 12 becomes 11. Why needing Publisher? I could not find one publisher. --George Ho (talk) 00:50, 26 June 2012 (UTC)
• Reference 13 → "InfoWorld" should not be italicized
  • Why not? It's a website. Also, it is italicized automatically with template. --George Ho (talk) 00:50, 26 June 2012 (UTC)
• Reference 14 → Full web citation needed
  •  Done --George Ho (talk) 00:50, 26 June 2012 (UTC)

External links

• "Fun trivia question on this website" should not be included in this section
  •  Done --George Ho (talk) 00:51, 26 June 2012 (UTC)

Conclusion

After thoroughly reviewing this article, I have decided to put the article on hold at this time. I will give you the general seven days to fix these mistakes and/or address other issues which you believe do not concern good article status. If you have any questions, please feel free to ask. Rp0211 ^(talk2me) 23:48, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

Since all of the issues have been addressed, I feel confident passing this article. Congratulations and keep up the good work! Rp0211 ^(talk2me) 03:30, 26 June 2012 (UTC)

Removed entry #3

This is likely a reference to the contemporary film The Terminator, in which the Terminator tracks its victims alphabetically through the phone book.

This entry is unreferenced and must not be added back until one source is found. --George Ho (talk) 21:31, 14 September 2012 (UTC)

Preface

This article already links to Jeopardy! which covers gameplay in detail. The preface section describing the game seems redundant. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.239.86.46 (talk) 21:21, 18 March 2013 (UTC)