Talk:When pigs fly

Merge

I suggest merging When pigs fly into this article. That article has much more useful content than this one, but this article's title is consistent with subjects like Exploding whale et al. – Minh Nguyễn (talk, contribs, blog) 04:40, 4 December 2005 (UTC)

Agree. The original article was practically vandalism, but the decent content in it now ought to be incorporated here and the article redirected to this one. --Tysto 21:50, 7 December 2005 (UTC)

Just edited in American Dad

I think it looks pretty good. I also seperated it from the novel/s, so that more can be added for TV Series aswell as other books and novels. Dead-Inside 12:37, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

pigs fly DUH all they need to do is drink RED BULL DUH —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.191.66.178 (talk) 14:59, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

There's also an English poem I ran across:

     And Pigs Might Fly
     author unknown

     It was crisis day in the parliament 
     The house was hushed and still. 
     A member rose with a question 
     "Are we doomed to go downhill?" 
     "I am confident of an upturn", 
     The PM made reply. 
     "If workers pay is held at bay, 
     We'll all be home and dry." 
     "How true, how true", cried the workers. 
     "Let's end this wicked strike. 
     We don't want a rise in wages, 
     They can stick it where they like." 
     "Thank God, Thank God", sobbed the bosses. 
     "There's faith on the factory floor. 
     And now we've got this extra lot 
     We'll give it to the poor." 
     They filled their pockets with money 
     And ran with eager feet 
     Pressing their surplus profits 
     On the people in the street. 
     They moved among the dole queues 
     And boarded every bus 
     With streaming eyes and heartfelt cries 
     "You need it more than us". 
     Soon all the people prospered 
     And the devil became a saint 
     Now the sober unions 
     Had exercised restraint. 
     The cities were filled with singing 
     And the sound of laughter spread 
     As hand took hand in the golden land 
     and pigs flew overhead.

Also the famous (Tommy Trinder) song "By and By" from the 1944 British musical film made by Ealing Studios - Champagne Charlie.

You can't deny that things today are in a pretty fix. I sometimes think it's time that I went into politics.

The government do nothing, and never will I fear. Although they promise plenty, for this is what we hear.

Everything will be lovely, lovely by-and-by. Everything will be lovely, every year we hear the cry.

There will be no poverty, no envy and no malice. The home of every labouring man will be just like a palace.

Everyone will be wealthy, living like a Lord, Eating plenty of all the things today they can't afford.

But when's it going to happen? When is by-and-by? Oh everything will be lovely when the pigs begin to fly.

Everything will be lovely, lovely by-and-by. Everything will be lovely, every year we hear the cry.

Things will be so different that the land will be like heaven, the same as Gladstone promised us back in 1857.

Everyone will be happy. No one will complain. Every house will have beer laid on like water from the main.

But when's it going to happen? When is by-and-by? Oh everything will be lovely when the pigs begin to fly. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.110.58.254 (talk) 01:40, 18 January 2014 (UTC)

Title

I disagree with the undiscussed move from "flying pig" to "pigs fly". The phrase "pigs fly" is not a common phrase (the phrase is "when pigs fly"), whereas the concept of a flying pig is broader than just the common phrase and grammatically consistent with other article titles: exploding whale, flying car, talking animal etc. Moreover, when Wikipedians create links, they are more likely to create a link with the form "...flying pig" than "...pigs fly" --Tysto 16:57, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

I agree with you. In fact, I will now move it back. The current title is probably a newcomer, acting in good faith without stopping to check the current consensus. Hello, My Name Is SithMAN8 (talk) 22:10, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

"Pigs are heavy animals"?

"Pigs are heavy animals, without wings, and cannot possibly fly." Really? What genius decided this needed explaining? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bruce Marlin (talk • contribs) 12:53, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

I'm torn between editing it out or preserving it as one of the choicest examples of The Bleeding Obvious in Wikipedia. I suspect is was written by someone who writes warning labels on product packaging. Rexparry sydney 00:12, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

What is "heavy"? Boothferry (talk) 08:30, 11 December 2010 (UTC)

Pigs are heavy animals, without wings, and cannot possibly fly. Does that help? ;) Iapetus (talk) 23:35, 3 November 2014 (UTC)

Cincinnati

As someone from Cincinnati I think this city's Flying Pig marathon, statues and its other flying pig mascots deserve a mention on this page. Noha307 (talk) 03:26, 12 July 2009 (UTC)

That was actually a feature of the article when I started it, with a picture of the prominent flying pig sculptures in the airport. But, alas, somewhere along the line the picture was deleted from the article and, for some reason, from Wikipedia in general without notice to me, even tho I took the photo. --Tysto (talk) 18:45, 30 July 2011 (UTC)

Mythological Flying Pigs

See Chrysaor from Greek Mythology, the brother of Pegasus, and Gullinbursti from Norse Mythology, the steed of Frey. 130.76.32.144 (talk) 22:16, 28 January 2011 (UTC)

Greek mythology, Bulgakov

Here are some references. Please use it in the article -- I can't, my english is not good enough. Karmela (talk) 16:42, 18 November 2012 (UTC)

Greek mythology and ancient Greek art

Chrysaor - Khrysaor

• Detail of a winged boar from the shield of the three-bodied giant Geryon. It may represent his father, Khrysaor, twin-brother of the winged horse Pegasos A vase painting depicting Khrysaor's son Geryon holding a shield emblazoned with the emblem of a winged boar--a likely representation of Khrysaor considering his boar-tusked, winged mother Medousa and winged-horse brother Pegasos.KHRYSAOR (or Chrysaor) have been conceived of as a winged boar, just as his twin brother Pegasos was a winged horse

Aaron J. Atsma. "Ancient Greek Art: L3.1D winged boar". www.theoi.com. The Theoi Project Greek Mythology. Archived from the original on AUGUST 20, 2010. {{cite web}}: Check date values in: |archivedate= (help)

Aaron J. Atsma. "KHRYSAOR (or Chrysaor)". www.theoi.com. Auckland, New Zealand: The Theoi Project Greek Mythology. Archived from the original on JUNE 28, 2011. ' {{cite web}}: Check date values in: |archivedate= (help)

• Coin: Nude hoplite crouching left behind shield, spear at ready / Forepart of winged boar right; OPO-NT-A around [http: //coinproject.com/search_city_result.php?city=Cisthene&region=MYSIA&type=1] [http: //coinproject.com/siteimages/97-82000584.jpg] [http: //coinproject.com/siteimages/97-77000203.jpg]

Mikhail Bulgakov's Master & Margarita

Nikolay Ivanovich is Margarita's downstairs neighbour who rubs himself with the leftover of Azazello's cream and changes into a pig. He pals up with Margarita's maid Natasha, who flies on his back to the sabbath and to Woland's ball. He receives from Woland, very exceptionally, a certificate stating that he "spent the said night at Satan's ball, having been summoned there in the capacity of a means of transportation... make a parenthesis, Hella, in the parenthesis put "hog". Signed - Behemoth.". He wanted this certificate "for the purpose of presenting it to the police and to his wife".

Jan Vanhellemont. "More characters Moscow". Mikhail Bulgakov's Master & Margarita. B-3000 Leuven - RU-115008 Moscow: www.masterandmargarita.eu. Archived from the original on 23 Oct 10. {{cite web}}: Check date values in: |archivedate= (help)CS1 maint: location (link)

Wizard101

In Wizard101 there is the "warrior pig transformation" and at least two types of wings. Also, one pet (which is also the default pet named Anne) is a floating piglet with rather small wings. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Yura87 (talk • contribs) 19:51, 15 March 2013 (UTC)

Alice through the Looking Glass (Lewis Carroll again)

The poem "The Walrus and the Carpenter" in Lewis Carroll's "Alice through the Looking Glass" includes the following stanza:

"The time has come", the Walrus said, / "To talk of many things. / Like shoes and ships and sealing-wax / And cabbages and kings / And why the sea is boiling hot / And whether pigs have wings"

86.14.9.87 (talk) 01:17, 26 April 2014 (UTC)

The Lion in Winter

Is it worth noting where this movie is mentioned in the "In popular culture" section that technically the use of this expression is an anachronism. If the phrase has only been in use since the 1600s then it wouldn't have been a thing in the timeframe when that movie was set: Henry II died in 1189. 73.70.198.25 (talk) 19:28, 28 November 2019 (UTC) dgnuff@gmail.com 11/28/2019 - 73.70.198.25

References

Requested move 9 May 2017

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: moved. Primefac (talk) 18:16, 18 May 2017 (UTC)

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Flying pig → When pigs fly – That is how the phrase goes, as mentioned throughout the article, especially in the lead section. No phrase ever went, "and if that happens, there will be a flying pig." Kailash29792 (talk) 07:44, 9 May 2017 (UTC)

• Support move. This article is about the phrase "when pigs fly", not about flying pigs in general.  ONR  (talk)  17:31, 9 May 2017 (UTC)

• Support per nom and User:Old Naval Rooftops. WP:NOUN should not apply to a set phrase. —  AjaxSmack  20:40, 9 May 2017 (UTC)

• Support per the nominator's rationale. Definitely makes sense for the title to be the phrase. ╠╣uw [talk] 10:51, 10 May 2017 (UTC)

• Support although I think the first word of the new title should be capitalized. Lepricavark (talk) 14:10, 10 May 2017 (UTC)
• Oppose. It's fine as it is. "Flying pig" and other variations such as "pigs might fly" (which is much commoner, in British English at least, than "when pigs fly", thus coming under WP:ENGVAR) are so common as to make the generic term a better bet. -- Necrothesp (talk) 13:16, 16 May 2017 (UTC)
• Comment: Not sure about this. My initial feeling was in favour, as "when pigs fly" is more commonly seen than "flying pigs", but as Necrothesp points out there is also "pigs might fly" as a common variant – not covered in the article but it should be. Perhaps it is better to keep the article at its current simple title. I note that the article was previously moved, apparently without discussion, to "pigs fly", then moved back after minimal discussion. (See higher up this talk page.) --Deskford (talk) 13:42, 16 May 2017 (UTC)

In this case, we can write in the lead section, The phrase "when pigs fly" (alternatively, "pigs might fly") is an adynaton. The more common phrase may be the article title. Kailash29792 (talk) 13:59, 16 May 2017 (UTC)

But what is the "more common phrase"? To me (and I suspect most British people), it's "pigs might fly". Not sure I've ever even heard "when pigs fly". -- Necrothesp (talk) 09:36, 17 May 2017 (UTC)

When pigs fly has 1,64,00,000 results, compared to the 37,30,000 results of pigs might fly. And this Wiki article makes no mention of the latter phrase. --Kailash29792 (talk) 09:42, 17 May 2017 (UTC)

Totally irrelevant, given (a) the current title of the article is not "When pigs fly" but the more generic "Flying pig" (which satisfies both forms), and (b) that's probably because the former appears to be the more common American form and is therefore undoubtedly going to get more Ghits. But see WP:ENGVAR. If Ghits was the be all and end all, then Wikipedia would be entirely written in American English. -- Necrothesp (talk) 09:52, 17 May 2017 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Why is this article a part of any geographical WikiProjects?

I see no evidence to tie this article to Cincinnati, or to the United States in general.  ONR  (talk)  17:32, 9 May 2017 (UTC)

• Among many popular culture items just deleted from this article [1] are a few that I think should have been retained, one of them being a sourced reference to how the flying pig has become a symbol of the city as well as its Flying Pig Marathon. See also "The story behind the name: Once upon a time, there were four winged swine who became a city's symbol, then a marathon's, Cincinnati Enquirer, May 7, 1999. And this is also discussed in a Smithsonian publication called Spirit Poles and Flying Pigs [2]. --Arxiloxos (talk) 18:31, 9 May 2017 (UTC)

Dickery Dickery Dare

...the pig flew up in the air.

https://www.gutenberg.org/files/38562/38562-h/38562-h.htm#DICKERY_DICKERY_DARE

This seems to have been first published by the successors of John Newbery in 1784 or perhaps a few years earlier, but I'm having trouble sourcing it sufficiently to add it to the article.

It almost certainly predates the earliest mention of flying pigs currently in When pigs fly#In popular culture, which is Lewis Carroll in 1872. Andrewa (talk) 10:52, 21 July 2017 (UTC)

Merge from Pigasus (literature)

Per Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Pigasus (literature), let's discuss a merge. I support as I concur those are related phenomena, and Pigasus doesn't meet WP:GNG for a stand-alone article. Pinging AfD participants: @Jontesta, (Oinkers42), Daranios, Shooterwalker, and Rtkat3: as well as User:Toughpigs. _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 10:20, 6 July 2022 (UTC)

I see nothing but a unanimous decision to merge. As the AFD nominator I didn't make it clear that I can compromise with all the merge !votes. Jontesta (talk) 14:17, 6 July 2022 (UTC)

As the outcome was no consensus, I did mention that I would've wanted the closer to transfer the information of the Land of Oz Pigasus to List of Oz characters (post-Baum) if the outcome was merge. As the outcome was no consensus, should their be another attempt at this? --Rtkat3 (talk) 17:47, 6 July 2022 (UTC)

It looks as though the information regarding Steinbeck is in the When pigs fly article. As far as the merge of information to List of Oz characters (post-Baum), @Rtkat3:, the person who closes the AfD discussion is not responsible for merging information: that's left up to interested editors. I don't see any opposition to that merge, so you're welcome to move it over there. The question now, is... if the material gets merged, where should this article be redirected? Courtesy pings to @Jontesta, (Oinkers42), Daranios, Shooterwalker, and Toughpigs: Joyous! | Talk 04:32, 15 February 2023 (UTC)

@Joyous!: I think there's some Steinbeck-related information at Pigasus (literature) which is not yet contained at When pigs fly and should be merged there. For after the merge, I suggest to redirect Pigasus (literature) back to the disambiguation page Pigasus, and there make two different lines referring to When pigs fly and List of Oz characters (post-Baum)#Pigasus, respectively. Daranios (talk) 16:06, 15 February 2023 (UTC)

Source for the origin of the phrase not specified

I'm not sure why Hughjackman69's edits in Dec 7th 2022 were allowed to be kept on this article. He claims the first in print use of the phrase is in the 1616 version of A shorte Dictionarie For Yonge Beginners, by John Withals. However, only the 1568 version is available to be viewed online, and no mention of the idiom can be found there. Has anyone managed to read the 1616 version to confirm? Fatcathybrid (talk) 23:31, 20 July 2024 (UTC)

I second this; until someone can track down the 1616 version (and it was popular and kept in print for a while, iirc) I'm going to take the text out. And Withals died in roughly 1555, so if it was an addition to a later version, he can't have been the one to write that bit about pigs anyway.—Ineffablebookkeeper (talk) ({{ping}} me!) 19:59, 7 August 2024 (UTC)

Hello, the 1616 version is now up on archive.org (https://archive.org/details/bim_early-english-books-1475-1640_a-dictionarie-in-english_withals-john_1616), and on page 655 of the PDF file (p583 of the book), it does indeed have the saying "pygs fly through the air with their tale forward".

I think we can reinstate the old paragraph about John Withals Fatcathybrid (talk) 13:21, 24 October 2024 (UTC)