Talk:White Antelope (Cheyenne chief)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:White Antelope (Cheyenne chief)/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Mike Christie (talk · contribs) 23:49, 27 April 2023 (UTC)

I'll review this. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 23:49, 27 April 2023 (UTC)

Images are appropriately licensed. Earwig finds no issues.

• What makes cheyennelanguage.org a reliable source?
  • It's run by Chief Dull Knife College, as per the copyright notice, but I also don't see anything to indicate that it's particularly reliable. this source provides a different name of Wōkaī hwō'kō mǎs and (in a different place), Wō' kaī hwō'kō mǎ ǐs, so I don't really know what to use. Thoughts?

    I think I'd switch to that book -- I would imagine most of the differences are transliteration, and I see no reason to treat it as unreliable. If we can find a reliable modern source using a modern transliteration that would of course be better. Since there are two spellings, perhaps change the parenthesis to a footnote and give both? Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 12:59, 28 April 2023 (UTC)

• "He made the final decision to end the battle with Little Old Man." Since there's no article for Little Old Man, I think we need to tell the reader who he is - a co-chief?
  • I'm not entirely sure from the sourcing. We know he was Cheyenne and a warrior, but I haven't been able to confirm whether he was a chief or not.

    I just noticed he's mentioned in Grinnell which you link to above, so you could use that. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 12:59, 28 April 2023 (UTC)

• "At their second meeting, Hamilton later described his impression of White Antelope": Boggs only met him once, though, according to the preceding accounts.
  • But Hamilton met him twice. Is this not clear?

    It's clear. Evidently I was sleepier than I realized when I reviewed this. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 12:59, 28 April 2023 (UTC)

• "In 1864, John Chivington led the First Regiment of Colorado Volunteers began killing, according to historian Stan Hoig, any and all Cheyenne they came upon": looks like a word is missing?
  • Yes, added
• "Hoig later writes that Chivington's meaning": this is historic present, but you use simple past everywhere else.
  • I tried to use historic present for historians, past for those who were roughly contemporary to the events written (I see "Hoig writes" or a variation several times, "Historian Ari Kelman writes", "Historian Gregory Michnig concludes",) are there instances I've missed.

    Yes, I missed those; probably sleepy again. Sorry! However, looking at those instances, I would suggest changing "later writes" to just "writes". Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 12:59, 28 April 2023 (UTC)

Spotchecks:

• FN 23 cites "His body was found in the riverbed of Sand Creek": I don't have access to this; can you quote the supporting text?
  • It's actually at the very end of p. 74: ""several white soldiers witnessed White Antelope fighing and being killed in the creek bed, which is where his body was found."
• FNs 12 & 15 cite "At the September meeting, Chivington made a statement that was interpreted by the Cheyenne and Arapaho as promising that his men would protect those who went in peace to Fort Lyon." Can you quote the support for this too?
  • Hoig: ""the chiefs appropriately considered Chivington's words to be a promise of protection if they would take their families in to fort lyon"". Michno is again about a page off-- p. 34: "the inference is crystal clear--if the Indians turned themselves over to the Fort Lyon Military they would be safe from attack by soldiers"
• FN 3 cites "White Antelope later condemned the treaty as a "swindle", saying that his name had been added to the Treaty without his consent." Verified.

-- Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 01:49, 28 April 2023 (UTC)

• • Let me re-check the Michno citations shortly, and I'll tweak those page numbers as relevant, they seem to be a bit off. Eddie891 ^Talk _Work 12:07, 28 April 2023 (UTC)

    Eddie891, just checking in to see how this is going. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 10:49, 4 May 2023 (UTC)

    My apologies: *this* review is going quite slowly as real life has decided to be quite busy; but I will try to get to it today or tomorrow. Eddie891 ^Talk _Work 12:25, 4 May 2023 (UTC)

    No hurry if you're busy; it can wait -- just wanted to make sure you were still planning to work on it. I'll check in again in a week if I haven't heard from you. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 12:36, 4 May 2023 (UTC)

    Thanks, @Mike Christie, I've gone through and tweaked a couple of the fn's, which should be good. Eddie891 ^Talk _Work 13:46, 5 May 2023 (UTC)

    Those look good. I think it's just the two minor points at the top of the review left now. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 21:55, 5 May 2023 (UTC)

    @Mike Christie, I think I should have gotten to them both just after you commented here. Eddie891 ^Talk _Work 22:02, 5 May 2023 (UTC)

    Looks good; passing. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 10:30, 6 May 2023 (UTC)

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 19:30, 20 June 2023 (UTC)

(

• Comment or view
• Article history

)

• ... that White Antelope, a chief of the Southern Cheyenne, was killed by American soldiers during the Sand Creek massacre? Source: https://books.google.com/books?id=mXoKmTT_aHIC&pg=PA61&dq=%22white+antelope%22&hl=en&newbks=1&newbks_redir=0&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwipw--a3ar-AhX1E1kFHfRCDmw4ChDoAXoECAEQAg#v=onepage&q=%22white%20antelope%22&f=false Page 59-60
  • ALT1: ... that the death song that Cheyenne chief White Antelope supposedly sang has been sung at remembrances of the Sand Creek massacre, the massacre he died in? Source: https://books.google.com/books?id=dvuhMwNCJwMC&pg=PA157&dq=Chief+White+Antelope+Blanket.&hl=en&newbks=1&newbks_redir=0&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwicv-bI3qr-AhXRVDUKHe9zDMIQ6AF6BAgIEAI#v=onepage&q=Chief%20White%20Antelope%20Blanket.&f=false Page 203 , https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/horrific-sand-creek-massacre-will-be-forgotten-no-more-180953403/ , https://dailynorthwestern.com/2020/11/19/campus/descendants-gather-virtually-for-seventh-sand-creek-massacre-commemoration/
  • Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Kingdom Two Crowns

Improved to Good Article status by Eddie891 (talk). Nominated by Onegreatjoke (talk) at 23:05, 9 May 2023 (UTC). Post-promotion hook changes for this nom will be logged at Template talk:Did you know nominations/White Antelope (Cheyenne chief); consider watching this nomination, if it is successful, until the hook appears on the Main Page.

Interesting quality article, on fine sources, offline source accepted AGF, no copyvio obvious. I find the original hook too simple - saying only that he was killed, and nothing about what he lived for. I like the idea of the ALT but feel that it's too complex as written. Perhaps try a rewording? Otherwise I could approve it. Why no image of him? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:39, 20 May 2023 (UTC)

• ALT2 ... that the song Cheyenne chief White Antelope supposedly sang as he died has been sung at remembrances commemorating the Sand Creek massacre where he died?
• ALT2a ... that the song Cheyenne chief White Antelope supposedly sang as he died at the Sand Creek massacre has been sung at remembrances commemorating the event?

@Gerda Arendt: How do these rewordings sound? @Mike Christie, Eddie891, and Onegreatjoke: I do have a concern about the article: it claims that are conflicting reports about how he died. Did he sing the song in only one scenario, or all of them? If so, I'm not sure if the current hook wordings work since it may need clarification that the song was only sung in one scenario of his death but not the others. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 09:41, 17 June 2023 (UTC)

Hi -- I've removed my name from the nomination as I wasn't involved in improving the article. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 11:27, 17 June 2023 (UTC)

Narutolovehinata5, I like ALT2a - much better than ALT1a - and approve it. I believe that "supposedly" tolerates the reading that the song is legend enough to be commemorated. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:32, 17 June 2023 (UTC)