Talk:White Tower (Brixen)

Educational Project Page

This page is part of an Educational Project by students of LIUC, Italy, with a course page at: https://outreachdashboard.wmflabs.org/courses/LIUC_-_Universit%C3%A0_Cattaneo/Digital_Technology_(Autumn_2020)/home The users of the group are new to the Wikipedia platform and are learning to edit following Wikipedia rules. They are open to any advice on improvements of the page in conformity to Wikipeida requirements and guidelines, and any help useful for the enhancement of the page will be gladly accepted. The student team User names are:.

• LiucMattia1
• LIUCSamuel1
• LIUClf3
• Cobalt03
• Yellowcar11
• Liuc Morra

Limelightangel (talk) 18:57, 21 October 2020 (UTC)

References and Sources

The content needs citations for all the content, so that it is clear where the information comes from. All editors need to add these at the same time as the relevant content. Use the Cite drop-down in the edit page, select the correct media format for your source, and complete as much of the template as possible. It was covered in the online training, and there is plenty of online help. Some useful starting points are:

• https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:Referencing_for_beginners
• https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citing_sources
• https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:Introduction_to_referencing_with_Wiki_Markup/1

Limelightangel (talk) 15:52, 22 October 2020 (UTC)

@Limelightangel: Thank you, we'll work on it LIUCSamuel1 (Talk) 4:28 PM, 27 October 2020 (UTC)

LIUCSamuel1 Team, we need to add more references as we get through our work. LIUCSamuel1 (Talk) 4:23 PM, 27 October 2020 (UTC)

@LiucMattia1: Group, Okay cool will do! Also we need more info on the tower itself. Cobalt03 (talk) 15:38, 27 October 2020 (UTC)

LIUCSamuel1 Team Sounds good to me, we should also try to get in touch with the museum to get as much information as possible about the museum and the black tower. LIUCSamuel1 (Talk) 4:23 PM, 27 October 2020 (UTC)

Liuc Morra Group Ok, I'll make some changes about the style, let me know what you think after.

@Liuc Morra, LIUCSamuel1, Limelightangel, LIUClf3, Cobalt03, and Yellowcar11: Team, We need to reference all our sources now. Good job to everyone for gathering all the information! LiucMattia1 (talk) 17:03, 27 October 2020 (UTC)

@LiucMattia1: Team, I have added some references and also a gallery template that way we can make the page more colorful!Cobalt03 (talk) 20:01, 27 October 2020 (UTC)

Well done! @Cobalt03: LiucMattia1 (talk) 21:35, 27 October 2020 (UTC)

@Liuc Morra, LIUCSamuel1, Limelightangel, LIUClf3, Cobalt03, and Yellowcar11: Everyone, I finished the gallery template and added some more references! Cobalt03 (talk) 13:45, 28 October 2020 (UTC)

@Liuc Morra, LIUCSamuel1, LiucMattia1, LIUClf3, Cobalt03, and Yellowcar11: It is great that you are starting to use the Talk page, but it is not text chat or similar - use or create section headings to give structure to the Talk page, and respond under the relevant section headings e.g. the helpful post under Naming Conventions by another editor needs responses to their comment under this section, and perhaps a thanks to them Limelightangel (talk) 12:33, 31 October 2020 (UTC)

@Liuc Morra, LIUCSamuel1, LIUClf3, Cobalt03, and LiucMattia1: the last sentence of the paragraph From "Black Tower" to "White Tower" needs a reference. If nobody can find it I would remove the phrase. Yellowcar11 (talk) 11:37, 23 November 2020 (CET)

Automatically generating the table of contents box

For each page with at least four headings, a table of contents (TOC) is automatically generated from the section headings - so add more sections and develop the use of sub-sections. More help on this at: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:Section Limelightangel (talk) 16:08, 22 October 2020 (UTC)

General discussion

@Liuc Morra, LIUCSamuel1, Limelightangel, LIUClf3, Cobalt03, and Yellowcar11: Hello team,

let's discuss on this section of the talk page all the future modifications, that we want to make for our draft. Here is a list of steps that still have to be done: (Please add here things, you think are still missing on our draft page!) - Better information about the pictures we took - Find something more about the "Torre Nera" - Revise some of the formulations within the paragraphs LiucMattia1 18:00, 26 October 2020 (UTC)

@LiucMattia1: Note in Talk pages you can 'ping' responses to other users bu username, as I have done here. And include multiple user names here (e.g. all group members). Also, indent threaded discussions, as I have here, using ':'. See the Talk page mark-up for this thread. You need to sign your Taalk posts using 4 tilde (~) symbols, which adds your user name and time stamp automatically. Limelightangel (talk) 10:31, 27 October 2020 (UTC)

Liuc Morra Team There are many unnecessary descriptive adjectives in some paragraphs. Lets try to make this page as objective as possible. @LIUCSamuel1, LIUClf3, Cobalt03, and Yellowcar11:

Liuc Morra In my opinion we could cut down on the second part of the "Guards of the White Tower" paragraph as it contains information that could better fit the Curiosity paragraph. What do you think? @LIUCSamuel1, LIUClf3, Cobalt03, Yellowcar11, and Limelightangel:

@Liuc Morra, LIUCSamuel1, LIUClf3, Cobalt03, and LiucMattia1: I believe that we should avoid saying "It also offers miniature bells" in the "Museum" paragraph because it may seem like some sort of publicity. Do you agree with me? Yellowcar11 (talk) 01:27, 17 November 2020 (CET)

@Yellowcar11: I agree Liuc Morra

Liuc Morra I also think that there are too many links in the paragraphs "Parish Church of Saint Michael in Brixen", we can cut down on most of them. What do you think? @LIUCSamuel1, LIUClf3, Cobalt03, and Yellowcar11:

@Liuc Morra, LIUCSamuel1, LIUClf3, Cobalt03, and LiucMattia1: I think that the first paragraph of " Guards of the White Tower" is not in the right spot, because it talks about the importance of the tower without any regard to the guards. Therefore, I'd move it somewhere else, for example, either in the very first paragraph or in history one. Yellowcar11 (talk) 11:31, 23 November 2020 (CET)

Linking out to other Wiki pages

Don't create links from or to irrelevant pages. There is, as with all aspects of the project, extensive online help resources e.g. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Tutorial/Wikipedia_links. Note that there are also easy ways here to create links to specific parts (i.e. sections) of other existing pages, where relevant. Read the help guidelines on this, understand what is an acceptable link out, and remove the irrelevant links to pages like bells, war, etc. Also, you link out to another page once, when you first include it in the text - so remove duplicate links out e.g. to South Tyrol, etc.Limelightangel (talk) 10:34, 27 October 2020 (UTC)

Naming Conventions etc.

According to our Naming Conventions (WP:NBZ), articles about South Tyrolean subjects are named according to the local linguistic majority (e.g. Brixen instead of Bressanone). In line with this policy, I'd also reconsider the decision to name this draft Torre Bianca. Both the German form or even the English equivalent (White Tower) are clearly preferable. --Mai-Sachme (talk) 16:34, 28 October 2020 (UTC)

@Liuc Morra, LIUCSamuel1, LiucMattia1, LIUClf3, Cobalt03, and Yellowcar11: I agree with Mai-Sachme. You can create a new draft for the page under the German or English name (Brixen), then copy the current draft content on to the new draft page. This process will also provide the opportunity to address the issues below, and re-write content. Limelightangel (talk) 12:41, 31 October 2020 (UTC)

@Liuc Morra, LIUCSamuel1, Limelightangel, LIUClf3, Cobalt03, Yellowcar11, and Mai-Sachme: I would propose to rename it to Weißer Turm, Brixen (White Tower). It is the German name of the tower, which is the language the majority speaks in South Tyrol (70%). Please let me know if you all agree with me! LiucMattia1 (talk) 23:10, 31 October 2020 (UTC)

@Liuc Morra, LIUCSamuel1, Limelightangel, LIUClf3, Cobalt03, Yellowcar11, and Mai-Sachme: I actually believe that since it is in English, we should name it White Tower (Brixen) as @Mai-Sachme: correctly suggested Cobalt03 (talk) 09:18, 1 November 2020 (UTC)

@LiucMattia1: I believe that the german name would be more appropriate, since it fits better with the Naming Conventions. LIUClf3 (talk) 18:30, 1 November 2020 (UTC)

@Liuc Morra, LiucMattia1, LIUClf3, Cobalt03, and Yellowcar11: I agree to rename it "White Tower", as most of you propose, since it is an English page. LIUCSamuel1 (Talk) 10:28 AM, November 2 2020 (UTC)

@Liuc Morra, LIUCSamuel1, LiucMattia1, LIUClf3, Cobalt03, and Yellowcar11: I agree with the consensus here: White Tower (Brixen). Look at practice and conventions for similar topics. An example is Presidentinlinna (Presidential Palace, in English) in Helsinki. The page on the English platform is Presidential Palace, Helsinki, not 'Presidentinlinna'. I suggest you recreate a new draft page, and copy the existing draft content to it. Limelightangel (talk) 11:36, 3 November 2020 (UTC)

@Mai-Sachme: Thanks for the help, as a group we will definitely discuss and work on it. LIUCSamuel1 (Talk) 5:12 PM, November 2 2020 (UTC)

Issues with the draft 31.10.20

• as an Educational Project: it is required that the Talk page is used by all project members. User:Yellowcar11 andUser:LIUClf3 have not used it at all, and User:Liuc Morra only once. To get started, see [[1]]
• Page name: see post above on Naming Conventions, and respond under that section. You may wish to thank the user who is trying to help.
• Style: review and re-write the content to the acceptable platform style guidelines. Avoid subjective, journalistic style, and remove things like 'hectic flapping','far more than', 'unique', 'high above the...', 'even further', 'however', etc.

@Liuc Morra, LIUCSamuel1, LIUClf3, Cobalt03, and Yellowcar11: Team, I have fixed the problems regarding the style of our work. Cobalt03 (talk) 15:42, 3 November 2020 (UTC)

• References: see the earlier post on References and Sources.

- the sections on Interior and Guards have no references - learn how to use Ref Group in the cite templates to reference the same source multiple times from the text, but list it only once in the references. There are two references for an identical source (currently references 3 and 10). See Help:Footnotes#WP:NAMEDREFS - use acceptable sources, and avoid sources like myBrixen, Hiwio, etc. See Wikipedia:Acceptable_sources - Google Scholar has several sources that include "torre bianca" brixen, which you may wish to review for useful facts and acceptable references for them.

@Liuc Morra, LiucMattia1, LIUClf3, and Cobalt03: I think we should make a reference to the sentences in the paragraph Interior of the White Tower starting right after reference number 14, until the end of the paragraph. Does anybody know the source we got that information from? Yellowcar11 (talk) 12:57, 7 November 2020 (CET)

@Liuc Morra, LIUCSamuel1, LIUClf3, Cobalt03, and Yellowcar11: I have just fixed the issue and added the reference. Thanks for the feedback! Cobalt03 (talk) 16:52, 7 November 2020 (UTC)

• Images:

- consider improving the clarity of image captions e.g. 'view of the city' - which city? The images reside outside your page, so need to be clear on Wikicommons. - consider locating images better, to align with the relevant text and sections. You should keep the gallery, but move some of these images to relevant text sections e.g. the historical gallery images to the relevant time periods

• Repetition: the information on the 1956 SVP election is duplicated at the start and end. Use it at the end, with the reference.

@Liuc Morra, LIUCSamuel1, LIUClf3, Cobalt03, and Yellowcar11: If this is fixed, post the fix here. If you are responding on references issues, post the response under the relevant references post (above). Then users can see the thread, the issue, and the response/discussion. Limelightangel (talk) 11:23, 3 November 2020 (UTC)

• Linking out:

- there are still irrelevant links out e.g. to 'war', 'pigeons', etc. See [[2]] - remove duplicate links out to existing pages. You link to them once, when first used e.g. the duplicate links out to St Michael link to the same page Limelightangel (talk) 13:23, 31 October 2020 (UTC)

@Liuc Morra, LIUCSamuel1, Limelightangel, LIUClf3, Cobalt03, and Yellowcar11: I fixed most of the References in accordance to the earlier post and I have deleted the references that were used twice. Also I have deleted the SVP information in the History paragraph. Cobalt03 (talk) 17:14, 2 November 2020 (UTC)

@Liuc Morra, LIUCSamuel1, LIUClf3, Cobalt03, and Yellowcar11: You don't need to delete references that you've used twice in the text. Create a ref group in the citation template, then you can do numbered text references several times to a single reference at the end. An example for this are Refs 5 and 16, both to 'ST, Catulli. "La Torre Bianca di Bressanone -". Hiwio (in Italian). Retrieved 2020-10-27.' Limelightangel (talk) 11:20, 3 November 2020 (UTC)

Issues with the draft 09.11.20

• Tidying up Talk page: I suggest you now edit the talk page to tidy it up. It will help users find and respond to different issues, and improve credentials when the page is submitted for review. The problematic section is 'conversations'
• Contradictory content: How can it 'date back to the XV century' but construction start 'in the XIV century'? Why is 1444 a link out, but not 1459, 1677, etc? What exactly was 'often copied in the area'?

@Liuc Morra, LIUCSamuel1, LIUClf3, Limelightangel, and Yellowcar11: I fixed the link out of the dates Cobalt03 (talk) 13:04, 10 November 2020 (UTC)

@Liuc Morra, LIUCSamuel1, LIUClf3, Limelightangel, Yellowcar11, and Noahfgodard: As Noahfgodard correctly pointed out I deleted all the irrelevant link out to dates, according to the general rules (see MOS:LINK). Cobalt03 (talk) 17:14, 17 November 2020 (UTC)

• Structure: Is the current structure right? Should museum come after interior, guards sections? Is the section on renaming part of history?
• Style: 'admire the view' and 'high above the roofs' are subjective; re-write it.
• Content: The history section is a bit brief. Add more facts e.g. The bells are cultural heritage monument number 14186 in south tyrol.
• correct the spelling error in the gallery image Limelightangel (talk) 16:33, 9 November 2020 (UTC)

@Liuc Morra, LiucMattia1, LIUClf3, Cobalt03, and Limelightangel: I have fixed the structure of the draft page. In addition, I have a proposal, why don't we move the "from black tower to white tower" paragraph into the "History" as a subparagraph? Yellowcar11 (Talk) 13:02, 10 November 2020 (CET)

@Liuc Morra, LiucMattia1, LIUClf3, Cobalt03, and Yellowcar11: we should discuss about it first but moving "from black to white tower" as a subparagraph into the "History" paragraph it's something we can try to do. LIUCSamuel1 (Talk) 2:13 PM, November 10 2020 (UTC)

@Liuc Morra, LiucMattia1, LIUClf3, Cobalt03, and Yellowcar11: I agree with moving from "black to white tower" as a subparagraph of "History" as it would make the structure more comprehensible and clear. LIUClf3 (Talk) 14:28 PM, 10 November 2020 (CET)