Talk:Who Moved My Cheese?/Archives/2012

Italics

From the manual of style: "Use italics for the title or name of books, movies, albums, TV series, magazines, ships, major orchestral works, and court cases." -- Notheruser 17:30 20 Jun 2003 (UTC)

My contribution was to change all of the verb tenses in the synopsis to present tense, in order to maintain consistency. Some verbs were already in the present tense.

Nice job; thanks. Addendum: I forgot to mention that it reads much better now. :) -- Notheruser 21:06 20 Jun 2003 (UTC)

The Prisoner

The article should be linked to and contrasted with The Prisoner TV series starring Patrick McGoohan as this book and film have as much to do with the enforcement of conformity as it has to do with the individuals response to change in his or her working environment. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Pgb62uk (talk • contribs) 13:54, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
You can either wait for change and adapt to it, or become a creator and move your own cheese, thus stimulating your psyche and forcing new experiences, without having to be subject to environmental change and having to adapt to it. Change the exterior factors how you decide and welcome the change that follows.

Marketing

I removed this as it was not NPOV:

"Marketing

The book is extremely well marketed. One big target group were managers who bought the book in large quantities and then gave it to their subordinates. This also highlighted the attitude of these managers towards their subordinates."

Carax 03:45, 4 November 2005 (UTC)

Parabolically

Since when does "parabolically" mean "via a parable"?

OinkOink 20:43, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

Spoiler Warning

Does anyone else find it amusing that this page requires a spoiler warning? --Vees 20:36, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

Critizism removed

The entry <<Paul Bowman, "Who Moved My Worth? Management Self-Help Books and YOU!", 2003>> under <<further readings>> has been removed with the comment "non notable". Any ideas on how to improve the criticism-part of this article? --84.150.73.35 22:29, 9 March 2007 (UTC)
PS: I don't blame Benjamin for censoreship of criticism or something like that. Actually he blogged a quite funny observation in http://mako.cc/copyrighteous/2004/Dec/03. So I look for "more notable" comments on the book. --84.150.73.35 23:24, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

I've got no interest in trying to censor criticism about WMMC. In all honestly, I don't particularly care for the book. I read the article you linked to and thought it was interesting. But it was the first I'd heard of much of that criticism. I removed it because it seemed, to me, more like someone trying to use Wikipedia to highlight or link to their own work than to highlight aspects of the topic (or criticism of the topic) that are notable and encyclopedic. I apologize if that was not the case.

Criticism in Wikipedia articles should be notable and I'm still not convinced that's the case here. I have made some off-hand criticism about WMMC but that doesn't mean that it belongs in Wikipedia. Point to criticism that has been published in magazines or newspapers or otherwise satisfies Wikipedia's standards of notabilitiy and we'll be good to go. If you can't do that, then the criticism really doesn't belong in WP, although I hope you continue to try to spread in other more appropriate venues. —mako (talk•contribs) 09:26, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

Hi Benjamin; I already understood, that you have got no interest in trying to censor criticism about WMMC. (Your comment on WMMC in your blog was quite whitty.) As you saw (and rightfully asked for), I now pointed to critizism that has been published in magazines or newspapers or otherwise satisfies Wikipedia's standards of notabilitiy. --84.150.94.168 12:30, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

Great! Thanks! Feel free to summarize the critical information you linked in the criticism section of the article as well. Then you can use the links you've put in as references and not just as external links and it will make their content more prominent. —mako (talk•contribs) 05:20, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

Hey guys I think the current criticism is very ignorant. The one saying that the main question is left unanswered is wrong. In the beginning of the book it is very clear that the mice ate all their cheese, but not wanting to believe it was gone they began to blame somebody by asking "who moved my cheese?". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.122.237.6 (talk) 14:29, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

Criticism section (mostly) removed

The criticism section refers to the book's supposed inability to answer the last two "possibilities" from this list

• to search and chase after new cheese
• to make the cheese yourself
• to move the cheese away from the refrigerators of others

Where did this list come from? If the editor made it up, then it is OR and should be removed. We can also argue whether the list is correct (if we understand "looking for new cheese" to be the same as "making the cheese yourself"), but actually this discussion would be entirely irrelevant as the list is OR in the first place. — Asbestos 18:48, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

Social parable of the operant conditioning chamber

I'd like to propose a link to operant conditioning chamber (AKA Skinner Box) somewhere in the article. The parallels are quite clear. Both this book and operant conditioning theory use the metaphor of rodents and their need for food to describe human behaviour. Insidiously this "book" extrapolates the theory to a generalized model of social behaviour. A theory precisely suited for the oppressive capitalist workplace. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.105.253.95 (talk) 08:55, 26 November 2009 (UTC)

Business fable reference in this article

The term Business fable first made its appearance in the Who Moved My Cheese? article here. Flowanda | Talk 03:53, 6 May 2011 (UTC)

Twisted Dehumanization?

Maybe someone who knows more about Wikipedia will see this and consider my recommendations. I have read the book, and it seemingly was created as a way of mistreating one's employees. The basic message is that people need to act like mice, who are very stupid and lack emotional capabalities. So it's reccommendations are to embrace a twisted dehumanization process backed by management. If you're not the boss, you deserve to be treated like garbage. Yeah, so I hope the criticism section can be updated, since it seemingly is nothing but jokes now anyways. -Tran Nguyen

How could you suggest that this book is a "twisted dehumanization" process? I feel that your are simply looking to far into the book . the idea behind it is to suggest to the reader that change constantly happens and here is how you can be better prepared. I dont recognize any subliminal messaging in the book to suggest otherwise?
-Bill Rance

The book is written for "Littlepeople" - and aims at keeping them "little". It teaches the weaklings to chase after the cheese. The author doesn't want to strengthen people, that is, to help his readers to become the cheese movers (leaders) rather than the cheese chasers (followers). --84.150.73.35 23:05, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

No single person knows who actually moved the cheese. There is not "twisted dehumanization" here due to the fact that this book focuses on the aspect of change instead of trying to devalue or dehumanize an individual. Just because Sniff and Scurry are mice, and Hem and Haw are "little people" has very little significance, The book could have been "Who Moved My Cake?" an could have described four different people, or four little ants, or four anything, you shouldn't focus on what the characters are. The entire book is based on a Darwinistic ideal of survival of the fittest and in doing so being able to recognize and move with the changes instead of being a "victim". You find your own cheese whether you make it yourself (cheese leader), or find it through someone else(cheese follower). - Dawa

That's some nice bourgeoisie idealism Dawa. What next, you gonna go off on how "Triumph of the Will" was really just about courage? Yeah no subliminal message in that either. And BTW you speak of Darwinism, yet you don't seem educated enough to realize that Charles Darwin opposed social Darwinism.

Change is necessary and can be good, even changing ones job. WMMC falls flat when it speaks against the importance of morals and emotions to the change process, and in that way is inhuman. Good leaders who understand people know how to deal with emotions and maintain moral standards in the midst of change, and this is what is sadly missing from WMMC- Ben Lowsen

Company founding vs. book publication date

Why is the book publication 1998 if the company founded to distribute the book was published in 1990?

The website for the company does indeed say it was created in 1990. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.122.37.221 (talk) 16:42, 7 December 2012 (UTC)