Talk:William B. Jordan

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Cwmhiraeth (talk) 06:10, 23 September 2020 (UTC)

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• Comment or view
• Article history

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• ... that William B. Jordan was appointed as the founding Director of the Meadows Museum the year he completed his doctorate? Source: "SMU and the Meadows community mourn the passing of William B. Jordan, founding director of the Meadows Museum in 1967" and "He obtained his doctorate from the Institute of Fine Arts, New York University, in 1967. That same year he was appointed the first director of the Meadows Museum"
  • ALT1:... that William B. Jordan donated a painting worth around US$6 million to a non-profit organization? Source: "American Friends of Prado is a non-profit organization based in the United States" and Jordan bought Portrait of Philip III and displayed it in his Dallas home until the Prado Museum confirmed its identification. In late 2016, he donated the work — worth an estimated $6 million — to the American Friends of Prado Museum."

• Comment: I personally prefer the original hook.

Created/expanded by The Most Comfortable Chair (talk). Self-nominated at 20:02, 10 September 2020 (UTC).

• Article length of over 6000 characters is good for the new article of just 2 days. No copyvio or plagiarism concerns verified with Earwig copyvio detector. Reliable sources are used. BOTH the original and ALT1 hooks checks out and is properly referenced. No need for a QPQ since it is less than 5 for the nominator. Article is Good To Go.--Doug Coldwell (talk) 19:00, 11 September 2020 (UTC)

• Hi, I came by to promote this, but neither hook is "hooky". The purpose of a hook is to "reel in" the reader to click on the article and learn more. These hooks tell us nothing about him. I think you have better hook material in his "eye for art". Yoninah (talk) 11:29, 15 September 2020 (UTC)

• ALT2a: ... that William B. Jordan is credited for turning the Meadows Museum's collection into the most prominent collection of Spanish art outside of Spain with no prior work experience?
• ALT2b: ... that William B. Jordan is credited for making the Meadows Museum, struggling with a scandal, the host to the most prominent collection of Spanish art outside of Spain with no prior work experience?

Greeting, Yoninah. I tried to find something "hooky" that was related to his acquisitions but so far I haven't found anything that would be unique to him. Most sources I come across praise his abilities, but I doubt he would be the only art expert to be described that way. I will keep looking, but I had a different idea for an ALT2. He is most notable for his work at the Meadows Museum, in particular how he changed its reputation into a prominent one, at a time when they had just opened and were struggling, with no prior work experience. I have expanded on that in the article. I have used "most prominent" as different sources describe its collection as "the best" or "the finest" collection of Spanish art outside of Spain. Let me know what you think. Thank you for helping out. — The Most Comfortable Chair 15:11, 15 September 2020 (UTC)

• @The Most Comfortable Chair: thank you for the alts. As much as you want to represent him properly, a hook is not the place to do that. It has to be hooky, not narrative. But if you want to proceed with the alts, then the last clause, with no prior work experience, is hanging onto the end in a strange way. You could write instead:
• ALT2a-1: ... that with no prior work experience, William B. Jordan turned the Meadows Museum's collection into the most prominent collection of Spanish art outside of Spain?
• ALT2a-2: ... that with no prior work experience, William B. Jordan made the Meadows Museum, struggling with a scandal, the host to the most prominent collection of Spanish art outside of Spain?
• IMO ALT2a/2a-2 has too many facts in it. ALT2a-1 sounds good to me. And you? Yoninah (talk) 15:46, 15 September 2020 (UTC)

ALT2a-1 seems like the best choice to me. Thank you for your help, Yoninah. — The Most Comfortable Chair 15:51, 15 September 2020 (UTC)

• ALT2a-1 hook facts verified and cited inline. Rest of review per Doug Coldwell. ALT2a-1 good to go. Yoninah (talk) 16:05, 15 September 2020 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:William B. Jordan/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Kncny11 (talk · contribs) 23:52, 19 March 2021 (UTC)

Tackling another GAN that's been waiting for almost six months! Any section marked with  Working means I haven't finished combing through it yet, but feel free to start making changes as soon as they roll in! Kncny11 ^(shoot) 23:52, 19 March 2021 (UTC)

Thank you so much for taking this on Kncny11! I have an important licensing exam coming up next month so I might be a little slow in addressing the points but I will do my best to get to them within a seven day period. Please forgive me if I go a little over that. Thank you again! — The Most Comfortable Chair 17:50, 20 March 2021 (UTC)

Understandable, @The Most Comfortable Chair:! I myself am in the midst of finishing up my thesis, and I just got the COVID vaccine, so I'm also not operating at warp speed. As long as you're working on it and we're in communication, I don't count the 7 days as a hard max. Kncny11 ^(shoot) 19:09, 20 March 2021 (UTC)

Good Article review progress box

Criteria: 1a. prose () 1b. MoS () 2a. ref layout () 2b. cites WP:RS () 2c. no WP:OR () 2d. no WP:CV () 3a. broadness () 3b. focus () 4. neutral () 5. stable () 6a. free or tagged images () 6b. pics relevant () Note: this represents where the article stands relative to the Good Article criteria. Criteria marked are unassessed

Infobox and lede

• Looks good! All info is properly cited in the body, we love that

Early life

• [1] and [2] don't actually mention his middle name as "Bryan". They only show his middle initial. The obit, on the other hand, does say "Bryan".

Removed both.

• Colon after "He had three sisters" instead of comma

Changed.

• "In 1945, the family moved to San Antonio, Texas, where Jordan attended Alamo Heights High School."

Much better now.

• "During summers" → "Over the summers," with comma

Done.

• "where his mentor was" → "where he was mentored by"

Rephrased.

• Move comma from after "Institute of Fine Arts" to after "1964 and 1967"

Moved.

• Comma after "interest in Spanish art history"

Added.

• Move 1967 to the first part of the sentence, i.e. "In his two-volume 1967 dissertation"

Moved.

• "Jordan presented an early monograph of the painter"

Changed.

• "And described the artist's "three-stage composition type" (the "his" is ambiguous as it stands)

Changed.

• Is his thesis the same as his dissertation, or was the thesis for his master's degree?

I will look into it and get back soon. — The Most Comfortable Chair 08:36, 21 March 2021 (UTC)

It was his doctoral dissertation. I can't find anything that talks about his master's thesis. — The Most Comfortable Chair 08:00, 22 March 2021 (UTC)

• The whole second paragraph seems a little jumbled and is hard to decipher.

I will try to clear it up soon. — The Most Comfortable Chair 08:36, 21 March 2021 (UTC)

I have re-written that paragraph. — The Most Comfortable Chair 08:00, 22 March 2021 (UTC)

1967-1981

• "forty-four" → "44" per MOS:NUMBERS

Changed.

• Pipe "forgeries" to art forgery

Done.

• Specify that de Hory was the forger, not the original painter

Clarified.

• Delink doctoral, as his degree was already mentioned above

Removed.

• Rework the sentence beginning "In 1966" to make it clear that Jordan was the student, not Meadows

Good spot. Rephrased.

• "He visited the museum with López-Rey and they assessed" → "He and López-Rey visited the museum to assess the works, where they determined ..."

Done.

• "auctioned off paintings that he deemed insignificant"

Added.

• "thirty-five" → "35" per MOS:NUMBERS

Done.

• "Jordan split his time between teaching and collecting"

Added.

• Mysterious solo quotation mark in the last paragraph, after "modern sculpture collection"

Removed.

• He is credited by who for improving the Meadows Museum?

Attributed.

1981-1990

• "Jordan left the Meadows Museum in 1981"

Changed.

• "He joined after his former colleague and director of the museum, Ted Pillsbury, offered him the position. Pillsbury and Jordan worked together to acquire paintings and created an exhibitions program at the museum." → "He was offered the position by his former college and director of the museum, Ted Pillsbury, and the two worked together to acquire..."

Rephrased.

• "As the chairman of the scholars' committee, Jordan helped to organize..."

Changed.

• "The exhibition was being planned since 1978 to commemorate" → "The museum started planning the exhibition in 1978, with the aim of commemorating"

Clarified.

• "The exhibition was called 'historic'" by who?

The article has a couple of authors. I have used The Dallas Morning News for now. Or should I write names of both authors? — The Most Comfortable Chair 08:36, 21 March 2021 (UTC)

• "John Russell writing for The New York Times" → "Writing for The New York Times, art critic John Russell"

Done.

• "In 1985, Jordan curated"

Changed.

• A "bigger budget" compared to what?

Added.

• Comma after "bigger budget at the museum"

Added.

• "He is credited" by who?

Same as above for The Dallas Morning News. — The Most Comfortable Chair 08:36, 21 March 2021 (UTC)

1990-2018

• Switch the second and third sentences of the first paragraph (different institutions continued to seek his advice → He worked as an independent art consultant at these places)

Good point. Rephrased.

• "It was published the same year as an eponymous book" needs some clarification

I have used "The catalog" instead of "It". They published the catalog in the format of a book (with the same title), as they commonly do after exhibitions or catalogs are at display. Would you recommend clarifying that in a particular way? — The Most Comfortable Chair 08:36, 21 March 2021 (UTC)

• "as a member of the board of directors, where he played an active role in various projects"

Added.

• comma after and the Court of Madrid

Added.

• WL the first non-italicized instance of Madrid

Linked.

• "he attributed to him" causes pronoun confusion

Clarified.

Art acquisitions and philanthropy

• The second sentence of the first paragraph flows illogically -- you start with his ability to tell forgeries, then his private collection, then a quote about his ability to tell forgeries.

Good spot. Moved it into the prose where it works better.

• The KERA quote seems out of place in the body of the text. It'd be better as a {{Quote box}}.

I have tried using that template, and others as well, but it either causes the prose to get sandwiched between the quote and image or pushes the prose way below at the bottom of the image, leaving a lot of empty space. Would you be able to help me out with this one please? I really want to avoid sandwiching the text as I plan on taking it to FA someday, and they strongly discourage that. — The Most Comfortable Chair 08:36, 21 March 2021 (UTC)

• Specify that the follower of Justus Sustermans was the supposed painter, not the one who titled Portrait of a gentleman

Clarified.

Bibliography

• This looks fine!

References

• The NYT sources should be marked with "|url-access=limited" -- while they have been archived, that little lock icon will show up next to the original URL

Added.

Although two of three are from NYT archives, so they are not limited and I haven't included this in them. I added it to the one which is from recent times and has limited access. — The Most Comfortable Chair 08:00, 22 March 2021 (UTC)

• Similarly, the LA Times source should be marked with "|url-access=subscription"

Is subscription required? I have been able to access the webpage freely without one for months. — The Most Comfortable Chair 08:36, 21 March 2021 (UTC)

This one is also from the archives of LAT, which are free to access so I have not added this. — The Most Comfortable Chair 08:00, 22 March 2021 (UTC)

General comments

• I'd consider "only one editor since November 2020" to be pretty damn stable.
• Earwig score is decent at 36.7%, and it's only that high because of a direct quote and a bunch of titles that can't exactly be paraphrased
• All photos look PD or otherwise properly licensed.
• All photos are relevant except for the one captioned "He acquired 75 paintings throughout his tenure", which doesn't indicate whether the paintings pictured are part of his acquisitions.

I have removed it but I will see if I can find something that is more relevant. — The Most Comfortable Chair 08:36, 21 March 2021 (UTC)

I added an image of one of his acquisitions (his last collaboration with Meadows). — The Most Comfortable Chair 08:00, 22 March 2021 (UTC)

Overall, really great! There are just some areas where sentence or paragraph flow needs some cleaning up, or there are too many pronouns in one sentence. Putting on hold for now. Kncny11 ^(shoot) 19:51, 20 March 2021 (UTC)

Thank you for your detailed review Kncny11. It has improved the article a lot. I have replied to all of your points, but I had a few queries with some of them and I have left my signature in my response to those. — The Most Comfortable Chair 10:06, 22 March 2021 (UTC)

Apologies for the delay, The Most Comfortable Chair. The Pfizer vaccine made me quite ill, but I feel back up to speed. Thank you for the changes that you've made thus far. For the clarifications:

• My preferred method for giving credit to a quote is saying "[author] of [publication]", in this case the Dallas Morning News.
• I think the clarification of the catalog into book makes a little more sense now. "which was published as a book with the same name later that year" would be a good clarification.
• Since the quote box is a minor issue that has very little to do with the prose and will become more relevant at FAC, I can toy with that separately from this GAN. Once the other two points are addressed, I can pass the article. Kncny11 ^(shoot) 21:23, 22 March 2021 (UTC)

I am glad that you are feeling better Kncny11. I was down with fever for a couple of days after my first shot as well. I am just happy that the end to this pandemic is in sight now! I have made the changes you suggested. Thank you again for your review! — The Most Comfortable Chair 03:55, 23 March 2021 (UTC)

Yeah, I was dizzy, lightheaded, and generally achy for a couple of days, but the alternative would be contracting the disease and risking getting a heart attack, so I'll take the former! Thank you for your excellent work on the article, and I'll pass it now :) Kncny11 ^(shoot) 15:15, 23 March 2021 (UTC)