Talk:William Clarke Gellibrand

Elizabeth Tice

There are plenty of sources saying that the Rev. Joseph Gellibrand married Elizabeth Tice. Date given in some places is 1763. None of those sources is RS, which is why the article is quoting such evidence as there is in better sources. There is a consistent picture, of Joseph Gillibrand and Elizabeth Tice, sister of Dr Tice of Edmonton, being the parents of William (Tice) Gillibrand, sometime Arian minister, later farmer, who went to Van Diemen's Land with his son in 1824, the year when his mother died.

I have found a worrying amount of incorrect Gellibrand information while looking into other branches of the family, re John Gellibrand Hubbard in particular, and am trying to assume nothing. Charles Matthews (talk) 08:01, 5 April 2023 (UTC)

Thomas Gellibrand

There is Thomas Gellibrand I, father of the Rev. Joseph Gellibrand.

In many sources there is Thomas Gellibrand II, or Thomas of Carshalton, who is the brother of William Gellibrand the elder and so grandson of Thomas Gellibrand I (we suppose). For understanding the family history this is the key person.

Then there is Thomas Gellibrand III who was Sheriff of Madras and the son-in-law of Samuel Toller. Sources say he had a son Thomas IV - Thomas Sergeant Gellibrand - who was co-founder of Morgan, Gellibrand & Co., a substantial business in the timber trade.

Sources indicate that Sophia Louisa Magniac married Thomas Gellibrand II, after a previous marriage. That marriage was to John Morgan, and Marianne Morgan, daughter of the marriage, married John Hubbard, and was mother of John Gellibrand Hubbard. In other words John Morgan was the maternal grandfather of JG Hubbard, and Thomas Gellibrand II a kind of step-maternal grandfather to JG Hubbard, who was also in the cotton trade with St Petersburg as his father was.

While a source indicates that Sophia Louisa Magniac was sister to Charles Magniac and Hollingworth Magniac, China merchant. I think it is probably the case that she was their aunt.

This is all relevant to William Clarke Gellibrand becoming a Russia merchant, clearly enough. Charles Matthews (talk) 16:18, 5 April 2023 (UTC)

Thomas II died in January 1826, and there was a legal judgement in Morgan v Davis relevant to the winding up of his bankrupt calico business in Surrey.[1] Charles Matthews (talk) 16:29, 5 April 2023 (UTC)

There is a slightly garbled reference in [2] p.425 suggesting that JG Hubbard was to William Clarke Gellibrand a "partner and almost adopted son". Charles Matthews (talk) 16:33, 5 April 2023 (UTC)

Basil John Parkinson

The Clyde Company reference, which gets some things garbled, suggests that Elizabeth Parkinson was related to the founder of Parkinson & Wettenhall, a law firm in Melbourne. So the founders were Basil John Parkinson and Alexander Llewellyn Wettenhall, in 1901.

As B. J. Parkinson, Basil was well known as an athlete in Australia. It appears that he was educated in England, at Manchester Grammar School and then University of London. He was a law clerk in Melbourne around 1895.

I think this is the Basil John Parkinson who was born in Rochdale in 1865, according to FreeBMD. That would be of interest explaining where Elizabeth fits in. The following piece of non-RS research

"Basil was born in 1865. Basil's father was Henry William Parkinson and his mother is Jane Tubbs. His paternal grandparents were William Parkinson and Amelia Ann Hall. He had three brothers and three sisters, named Henry, Charles, Cyril, Emily, Edith and Gertrude. He was the youngest of the seven children. He died at the age of 92 in 1957."[3]

connects back to Moscow. There is a newspaper report from 1840 [4] of a death

"after a short illness, aged 18, Charles Gellibrand Parkinson, second son of the late Mr. William Parkinson, formerly of Moscow, and nephew of Mr. Waterworth Hall, of Hull"

and corroboration that William Parkinson married Amelia Ann Hall (born 1792); and retired for health reason to Hull, where his son Henry William Parkinson began a ministry. We assume he moved on to Rochdale, where there was a minister of that name.

My conclusion is that Elizabeth Parkinson was a sister an aunt of Henry William Parkinson, and great-aunt of Basil John Parkinson. William Clarke Gellibrand was close enough to the Parkinsons to act as godfather (say) to Charles Gellibrand Parkinson c.1822. All tentative, but it makes some sense. Elizabeth, we must presume, died young.

@Billinghurst: Of any interest to you? Charles Matthews (talk) 12:17, 8 November 2023 (UTC)

Well, https://www.myheritage.com/names/elizabeth_gellibrand says that Elizabeth Gellibrand was sister to William Parkinson. Also that she died in 1833, which is also stated with a plausible reference on https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Gellibrand-44. Charles Matthews (talk) 15:39, 8 November 2023 (UTC)

Further, we have a sister (presumably) Harriet Parkinson of Elizabeth Parkinson, and a possible cousin marriage into the Halls. Charles Matthews (talk) 06:12, 9 November 2023 (UTC)